Hate to say it..... (QB situation)

[Garranimal]

Well as long as we're comparing, go ahead and show me where Tebow played one game even close to as sound as the games EJ had against the Jets at home and Jacksonville on the road.

 

Thanks, and goodnight.

 

Ridiculous comparison, and you wildly missed the point I was making.

Ok....

 

EJ vs. Jets

 

Passing Rushing CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT QBR RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG

TD

20 28 245 71.4 8.75 43 2 0 76.2 121.9 7 9 1.3 6 0

 

EJ vs. Jax

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT QBR RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG

TD

17 24 193 70.8 8.04 28 2 1 71.3 105.0 10 37 3.7 12 1

 

Tebow vs. Vikes

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT QBR RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG

TD

10 15 202 66.7 13.47 42 2 0 72.1 149.3 4 13 3.3 7

0

 

 

Tebow vs. Steelers

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT QBR RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG

TD

10 21 316 47.6 15.05 80 2 0 97.7 125.6 10 50 5.0 11 1

 

Dumping the ball off on check downs is great for completion percentage but I will counter that with 70% greater average completion yardage.

 

I didn't miss your point, i simply added another perspective to the argument.....that is doesn't jive with your belief that EJ is going to be a good QB is what causes you to respond in the asinine way that you did...."thanks and goodnight".....dismissive much?

 

<drops the mike, walks off the stage>

[BmarvB]

I didn't think Jim Kelly was that much better in his first year here - even with his USFL experience.. He had to take his lumps and learn back then just like these guys have to now. Let's not rush to judgement on either of them right now, it's too soon to tell.

[gobillsinytown]

It's way to early to give up on EJ, and the coaching staff is tied to his success or failure. That being said, he'll get one more year.

The good news is that Thad is a pretty capable backup, and IMO a team needs two QB's during the season.

No way does the team draft a QB in the first round. They might go for someone in the later rounds.

As far as the coaching staff......there is a clear youth movement in the NFL. More often than not, teams are hiring younger head coaches and assistant coaches from the college ranks. So hiring younger coaches with less NFL experience isn't the problem. It's hiring the right coaches.

[TheBrownBear]

I'm not so worried about Manuel's durability. I think those were mostly fluke things and him having to learn the hard way about how to protect himself in this league. My big concerns are the absolute turds he laid in the Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, first Jets game and the second half of the Ravens game. But...he is a rookie and these things happen. I actually like both EJ and Thad and I'm ok with the Bills entering camp in 2014 with them as the main QBs. I just happen to think Thad gives us a better chance to win at this point and I prefer watching him over Manuel. I get that Manuel needs reps and experience, but I'd like to see Thad play next week in another tough road game to have a better chance of evaluating him, and it seems like the prudent thing to do given the situation with EJs knees. Let's take another look at Thad, let EJ get healthy, and then enter 2014 with an open QB competition.

[Rob's House]

Criminy - So much silliness.....If TL were the "starter" and EJ was the back -up underdog the same group that are Thadaholics now would be EJ maniacs - They would point to TL's inaccuracy - they fact he had four years to do something and the rest of the NFL gave up on him....why are we sticking with him, the defense bailed him out yesterday...when we have EJ ready to come in - who has show good things in spite of missing practice most of the season EJ is our future!!!....blah blah blah...

 

The back-up QB always has the benefit of the doubt because its a win-win for them - look reasonable and you are the answer- because you are the back up and you weren't' necessarily expected to do well ....play like a back up and you did because that is what you are. For Cripe sake - if EJ had the same performances TL had against Miami - the same TL supporters would be pointing out in game one the horrible QBR (29) and in the second game the D handed the game to him.

 

On the other hand - EJ has the burden of having to look like a "franchise" QB every time he plays - and every aspect of him is gauged against Wilson, Luck....TL - not so much because we got him for nothing....but TL "shows more emotion....!!!"

 

EJ is exactly (minus the knee) what he was predicted - great potential - gonna take a couple of years.

 

I love all the Alex Smith fans who point to him - he stink stank stunk for 5 years......now he is captain check down (also 2-4 in his last 6 games) but EJ checking down means will never amount to anything.....

Bills are NOT going to draft a QB this year - no way - no how - unless EJ has a career ending injury next week.

 

I don't have connections deep within the organization so I can't say you're wrong, but this seems to me to be an inexplicable decision if true. Why would they not draft a QB? There's no reason not to.

[thebandit27]

Ok....

 

EJ vs. Jets

 

Passing Rushing CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT QBR RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG

TD

20 28 245 71.4 8.75 43 2 0 76.2 121.9 7 9 1.3 6 0

 

EJ vs. Jax

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT QBR RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG

TD

17 24 193 70.8 8.04 28 2 1 71.3 105.0 10 37 3.7 12 1

 

Tebow vs. Vikes

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT QBR RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG

TD

10 15 202 66.7 13.47 42 2 0 72.1 149.3 4 13 3.3 7

0

 

 

Tebow vs. Steelers

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT QBR RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG

TD

10 21 316 47.6 15.05 80 2 0 97.7 125.6 10 50 5.0 11 1

 

Dumping the ball off on check downs is great for completion percentage but I will counter that with 70% greater average completion yardage.

 

I didn't miss your point, i simply added another perspective to the argument.....that is doesn't jive with your belief that EJ is going to be a good QB is what causes you to respond in the asinine way that you did...."thanks and goodnight".....dismissive much?

 

<drops the mike, walks off the stage>

 

Really, we're going to call those performances equal? 10-21 is as good a game as EJ had? Ok then.

 

And yes, you did miss my point, which was to say that the QB's demeanor between plays doesn't say a thing about his ability to play the game. Your additional perspective was wildly off the mark with regard to my original statement, so my "asinine dismissal" of your erroneous comparison may be more appropriate than you'd like to think.

 

If completing 10 passes in the guy's best game doesn't tell you that they're totally different players, then I'm not sure there's a discussion to be had.

 

Perhaps you should take the mic with you next time.

[Gerry]

Despite the difference in pass attempts, TL (77.8) and EJ (77.7) have almost identical passing ratings. TL has established himself as a credible backup, while EJ is still a question mark as a starter. I seriously doubt if EJ would have done a better job than TL yesterday in the wind and rain; the fact is, it doesn't seem to matter which one of them is in there, which is troubling. EJ could ease some of the fears if he leads the team to a win next week, but the chances of that are slim to none. Assuming he stays healthy, we won't know more until mid-season next year.

[thebandit27]

Despite the difference in pass attempts, TL (77.8) and EJ (77.7) have almost identical passing ratings. TL has established himself as a credible backup, while EJ is still a question mark as a starter. I seriously doubt if EJ would have done a better job than TL yesterday in the wind and rain; the fact is, it doesn't seem to matter which one of them is in there, which is troubling. EJ could ease some of the fears if he leads the team to a win next week, but the chances of that are slim to none. Assuming he stays healthy, we won't know more until mid-season next year.

 

For the most part I agree with this...although I will say that EJ had his best performance of the year in gale force wind and rain at home against the Jets. Better performance against a better defense; to me, a game like that shows me that his upside far exceeds that of Thad.

 

To me, it isn't about EJ vs. Thad, it's about EJ vs. drafting another guy...Thad's not in the conversation from what I've seen.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

Seriously?! watching EJ dink and dunk all day is nauseating.

 

Go watch the last three quarters of the jax game. A sure fire cure for that nausea

[Boatdrinks]

I don't have connections deep within the organization so I can't say you're wrong, but this seems to me to be an inexplicable decision if true. Why would they not draft a QB? There's no reason not to.

Most of us probably don't have such connections. I would base it on past NFL history. Most teams do not draft 1st round QB's in consecutive years. There may be the odd example of a team doing this, but barring major injury it just doesn't happen. There are many reasons. In a nutshell, QB's generally take a couple years to hit their stride and given the importance of the position + the 1st round pick teams want to be sure before they cut a guy loose. Favre, anyone? The new CBA allows for very little practice time, hardly enough to develop one guy. Couple that with a long standing NFL culture that dictates there be ONLY 1 starting QB, and logic says the Bills don't start a revolution here. If EJM is healthy, he will be given at least 2014, and the Bills will address a different area of need such as a stud WR or perhaps another top LB. My gut says the 1st rounder goes to the Offense, but that depends which guy is there when they pick. Alonso was a 2nd rounder, so they could wait for an LB there. It's too early to tell. But short of catastrophic injury, a QB will not be drafted high (before the 3rd or 4th round) in 2014. If a proven veteran QB became available, the Bills may act on it. They tried very hard to get Alex Smith last offseason.

[Maury Ballstein]

Stop complaining about dunking and dunking when you worship the king of the dink and dunk Alex Smith.

 

Lost 4 of 6 games w Smith lately. Rut rough. But it's cool when smith does it. Not cool for EJ ? Confusing stuff

[Boatdrinks]

 

To me, it isn't about EJ vs. Thad, it's about EJ vs. drafting another guy...Thad's not in the conversation from what I've seen.

Right. EJ has had some bad moments, but overall he hasn't thrown up on his shoes. So he will be given another season due to his draft status/physical tools. Drafting another guy MAY be an option in the middle rounds to compete with TL as a potential backup. That's about it. If TL is brought back, it will be as a backup. It's more likely TL would have to compete with a vet QB other than Kolb (who will likely retire) for that backup spot.

[Rob's House]

 

Most of us probably don't have such connections. I would base it on past NFL history. Most teams do not draft 1st round QB's in consecutive years. There may be the odd example of a team doing this, but barring major injury it just doesn't happen. There are many reasons. In a nutshell, QB's generally take a couple years to hit their stride and given the importance of the position + the 1st round pick teams want to be sure before they cut a guy loose. Favre, anyone? The new CBA allows for very little practice time, hardly enough to develop one guy. Couple that with a long standing NFL culture that dictates there be ONLY 1 starting QB, and logic says the Bills don't start a revolution here. If EJM is healthy, he will be given at least 2014, and the Bills will address a different area of need such as a stud WR or perhaps another top LB. My gut says the 1st rounder goes to the Offense, but that depends which guy is there when they pick. Alonso was a 2nd rounder, so they could wait for an LB there. It's too early to tell. But short of catastrophic injury, a QB will not be drafted high (before the 3rd or 4th round) in 2014. If a proven veteran QB became available, the Bills may act on it. They tried very hard to get Alex Smith last offseason.

I'm not suggesting 1st rd. Viable options have come in rds 2-4 in recent years, & taking one of those guys doesn't preclude you from starting EJ next year or even the year after that & so on. It just gives you a low cost contingency plan.

[thebandit27]

Right. EJ has had some bad moments, but overall he hasn't thrown up on his shoes. So he will be given another season due to his draft status/physical tools. Drafting another guy MAY be an option in the middle rounds to compete with TL as a potential backup. That's about it. If TL is brought back, it will be as a backup. It's more likely TL would have to compete with a vet QB other than Kolb (who will likely retire) for that backup spot.

I'm not suggesting 1st rd. Viable options have come in rds 2-4 in recent years, & taking one of those guys doesn't preclude you from starting EJ next year or even the year after that & so on. It just gives you a low cost contingency plan.

 

Yes to both of these posts...personally I'm on board with the 4th round QB idea.

[Garranimal]

Really, we're going to call those performances equal? 10-21 is as good a game as EJ had? Ok then.

 

And yes, you did miss my point, which was to say that the QB's demeanor between plays doesn't say a thing about his ability to play the game. Your additional perspective was wildly off the mark with regard to my original statement, so my "asinine dismissal" of your erroneous comparison may be more appropriate than you'd like to think.

 

If completing 10 passes in the guy's best game doesn't tell you that they're totally different players, then I'm not sure there's a discussion to be had.

 

Perhaps you should take the mic with you next time.

i got your demeanor sarcastic comment, it wasn't that sophisticated....it also wasn't worth commenting on....comparing Tebow and Peyton Manning is as asinine as comparisons get.

 

Compare Tebow and Kyle Orton perhaps as they QB'ed the exact same team in the exact same season and had personalities similar to what the original point was about. Compare Peyton and Tom Brady and who has the most rings? yeah, the fiery guy.

 

I think you are missing the point.....I am not saying Tebow is good, i am saying EJ is Tebow-like bad. 10 completions for 300 yards....is 10 completions for 300 yards. You can mock it all you want...get back to me when EJ has a 300 yard game....not a 290-something....a 300 yard game.....and then again when he does it in a playoff game.

[3rdand12]

okay i will put the mike down and leave

[Dibs]

Despite the difference in pass attempts, TL (77.8) and EJ (77.7) have almost identical passing ratings. TL has established himself as a credible backup, while EJ is still a question mark as a starter. I seriously doubt if EJ would have done a better job than TL yesterday in the wind and rain; the fact is, it doesn't seem to matter which one of them is in there, which is troubling. EJ could ease some of the fears if he leads the team to a win next week, but the chances of that are slim to none. Assuming he stays healthy, we won't know more until mid-season next year.

 

Though I generally agree with that, I think that comparing base QBRs is a tad deceiving.

 

Though the sample size is small, Thad has shown himself to be relatively consistent. 4 games, 3 games with QBRs 67.6, 72.0, 77.8.....and one game 100.5.

 

EJ IMO has shown that he is far less consistent than Thad having shown results that are both horrible, and very good. EJ's bad games result in QBRs of 31.2, 48.9 & 63.5.....but his good games result in QBRs of 121.9, 105.5, 105.0.......with the rest ranging throughout with QBRs of 89.3, 86.7, 74.8 & 71.8.

 

So we have two QBs who are playing relatively poorly(both near 78 QBR). One of those QBs typically produces in a game at around that base level(Thad)......while the other QB can perform horribly in any given game, but also can far more regularly be very good(or better than the base level).

 

 

These are all just stats......and really mean nothing.....but they do IMO represent the differences between the two QBs at this point in time, at least in my eyes.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Dibs

[BackInDaDay]

Thad competes... but with 3 years NFL experience under his belt, i'm concerned we've seen his best.

I sincerely doubt we've seen our inexperienced QB's best.

Not with an inexperienced OC, and inexperienced receivers.

 

at this stage he needs help to succeed. if Marrone and Hackett have the will to review and correct every situation where - whether it be from sloppy design, or undisciplined play - his rookie had little chance to make positive plays, then we'll see him grow next season. otherwise, it doesn't matter who's taking the first team snaps.. the QB play will remain inconsistent.

[Buftex]

I didn't think Jim Kelly was that much better in his first year here - even with his USFL experience.. He had to take his lumps and learn back then just like these guys have to now. Let's not rush to judgement on either of them right now, it's too soon to tell.

 

I say this as someone who thinks EJ can still be a good QB for the Bills...you are so wrong here. Kelly was much better in his rookie season, from week one on...sure, he got better, but I don't think anyone had any doubt, even for a moment, during his rookie year, that Kelly was not a franchise QB.

 

I'm not suggesting 1st rd. Viable options have come in rds 2-4 in recent years, & taking one of those guys doesn't preclude you from starting EJ next year or even the year after that & so on. It just gives you a low cost contingency plan.

 

No way the Bills will draft a QB in the first two rounds...but I would be surprised if they didn't pick somebody in the 4th or 5th round, maybe the 3rd.

 

As for Thaddeus Lewis, I like him. I would have zero problem with him being our #2 guy next year... he is a gamer, and I think his teammates respond to him. I like the energy he brings to the offense. I am also not sure that some of his inaccuracy is not caused by nerves. He makes plays...

Edited December 24, 2013 by Buftex

[Chandler#81]

I didn't think Jim Kelly was that much better in his first year here - even with his USFL experience.. He had to take his lumps and learn back then just like these guys have to now. Let's not rush to judgement on either of them right now, it's too soon to tell.

 

On the off chance you're not trolling, check out what 'Bmarv' had to say about Kelly with barely a half season as his QB ('86 Season Hi-lites). From the 'Kelly is God!' opener vs the Jets (3 TD passes), to the aerial duel with Boomer in Cinci, the last second end zone toss that bounced off Riddicks arm cast, to the 'Read' @ KC where he checked out of a 3rd down pass and Riddick ripped past the blitzing LBs to score from 40 yrds, he was All-World and easily the best QB in team history. Sure, he had a learning curve, but the Bills were a threat in every game he played from beginning to the end of his career. Manuel alone, does not make the Bills a threat.