Hate to say it..... (QB situation)

[San Jose Bills Fan]

What I see is a guy who is a slow starter and didn't throw consistently accurately in college and doesn't in the pros either. Now people will cite his completion percentage in college but it you actually watched florida state you know he was not accurate. Accuracy is rarely improved upon to the level he needs improving so I have my doubts.

 

And what I see is an incredibly gifted quarterback with great intangibles who has played very well in spite of missing half of the preseason and 4.5 weeks of the regular season (before today's game).

 

I consider myself a pretty good observer of the NFL and I think he's played well.

 

It's astounding to me how many people dwell on his bad plays ignoring the two dozen or so throws he's made this year that we haven't seen a Bills quarterback make since Drew Bledsoe's first year here.

 

The comments today about Thad Lewis' abilities relative to EJ Manuel are nothing short of idiotic IMO.

[#34fan]

We need to FIRE NAT HACKETT! Then try to hire Frank Reich away from The Chargers. He's got DECADES of valuable experience, and has Phil Rivers playing very well this season -Then after a mostly defensive early draft, we take a talented QB prospect in later rounds. May faves are Connor Shaw, Tommy Rees, and David Fales.

Edited December 23, 2013 by #34fan

[Buffalo Barbarian]

We need to FIRE NAT HACKETT! Then try to hire Frank Reich away from The Chargers. He's got DECADES of valuable experience, and has Phil Rivers playing very well this season -Then after a mostly defensive early draft, we take a talented QB prospect in later rounds. May faves are Connor Shaw, Tommy Rees, and David Fales.

 

he also has Philip rivers.

 

You want to have a defensive draft when the offense needs a lot of work and you think some scrub QBs are gona fix it . I'd rather have EJ than those bums at least he the physical tools to do the job.

[dezertbill]

Well, good luck with all that... As for me, I think I'll just withhold my judgement until I actually have enough information to make a truly informed assessment.

 

WOW....an educated statement! Not many of those around here!

[OldTimer1960]

 

Comparing experience level of an athlete to what is needed to be a CEO of a major corp is the dumbest thing posted here this year. Congrats!

So do you really think that rookie QBs come in knowing everything that they need to know for immediate success at the NFL's most important and cerebral position? I suggest checking the rookie season of almost every successful QB over the last 20 or 30 years.

 

By the way, expressing an argument in support of a contrarian viewpoint is what is supposed to be done on boards like this. Calling another post "the dumbest post of the year" without any counterpoint being expressed just makes you sound bad.

Edited December 23, 2013 by OldTimer1960

[tennesseeboy]

I think this was a message game. Miami was not in one of those "let's get this over and run for the bus" modes. They had a lit riding on this. Thad looked good enough to challenge the oft injuredvej, but I think the job is still ej's. Very impressive win

[NFLBighits]

I think this was a message game. Miami was not in one of those "let's get this over and run for the bus" modes. They had a lit riding on this. Thad looked good enough to challenge the oft injuredvej, but I think the job is still ej's. Very impressive win

Defense won this game as are QB play has been terrible all year and we need help there big time as are wide receivers do to but are defense is fine .

[Campy]

The whole coaching staff for the Buffalo Bills are college level coaches who are in over their heads. Not good. Amateurs. We have little in the way of QBs and even less in the way of coaches who know how to develop/coach QBs.

 

Good point. I mean, whatever happened to that QB from Syracuse? /sarcasm

[benderbender]

I wanted to draft EJ. I want him to succeed. However his propensity for injury makes me worry. I would not blame the organization for drafting QB this draft. Especially if there is a Manziel or Bridgewater available.

[Rico]

No doubt Thad is far more entertaining to watch right now than EJ is... but no doubt EJ is still the starter next year. I give EJ a mulligan for this year, but he could (or should) be 2 years and done though if he doesn't show major improvement.

[Chandler#81]

 

 

And what I see is an incredibly gifted quarterback with great intangibles who has played very well in spite of missing half of the preseason and 4.5 weeks of the regular season (before today's game).

 

I consider myself a pretty good observer of the NFL and I think he's played well.

 

It's astounding to me how many people dwell on his bad plays ignoring the two dozen or so throws he's made this year that we haven't seen a Bills quarterback make since Drew Bledsoe's first year here.

 

The comments today about Thad Lewis' abilities relative to EJ Manuel are nothing short of idiotic IMO.

 

And, you're welcome TYO. It may be somewhat of a surprize to learn that tens of thousands of Bills fans also consider themselves pretty good observers of the NFL, including me. While I don't observe that Manuel is Geno-bad (yes, I believed Smith would be THIS bad), the 2 dozen or so HORRIBLE plays our Rook made washes out your positive plays and we're left with a complete unknown at the games' most important position. My angst over this stems from the Bills FINALLY having such good talent on the team overall that we'd be competing for a playoff game this year, we're it not for the poor play and multiple missed games by 'the Chosen One'. Talent windows don't stay around like they used to and this teams' playoff drought is approaching epic proportion in an era where EVERY team can turn their fortunes around in one year. As for Bledsoe-like throws, I recall most good observers in awe over Fitzy's sidearm slings for TDs that "few players can make"! He says "Hi" from Tennessee..

 

IMO, Manuel is a 'project QB' we simply don't have the luxury of time to invest, and his gangly, scrawny legs are a huge concern. I'm good with nurturing him but NOT if we don't get another top prospect in here via Draft or trade this off-season.

 

Just my idiotic opinion.

[PearlHowardman]

On the other hand, to counter your implication that college coaches are a bad thing, do the names Chip Kelly, Jim Harbaugh and Pete Carroll ring a bell?

 

I didn't say that ALL college coaches are a bad thing. I just said that when Marrone, et al, were here at Syracuse University they really did nothing to impress anyone.

 

Everyone around here warned me that the Bills were making a BIG mistake hiring him/them but I ignored everyone. It's beginning to look like everyone here in Syracuse who said the Bills hiring Marrone, et al, was a bad idea were 100% right! Worse, this coaching staff will never develop EJ Manuel into a NFL QB.

 

GO SU ORANGE!

GO BUFFALO BILLS!

Edited December 23, 2013 by PearlHowardman

[1billsfan]

I wanted to draft EJ. I want him to succeed. However his propensity for injury makes me worry. I would not blame the organization for drafting QB this draft. Especially if there is a Manziel or Bridgewater available.

 

 

That's simply not happening. Here's the list of all the QB starved teams picking before the Bills pick in the 1st round...

 

Houston

St. Louis

Jacksonville

Oakland

Cleveland

Minnesota

 

Not only will the Bills not get a sniff of Manziel or Bridgewater, they won't get a sniff of the next two QBs in line to be drafted. I wish fans here could just enjoy the fact that the Bills will have a great opportunity to draft a stud WR or OL since so many QBs will be being being picked ahead of them in the draft, this will push great talent at other positions to them.

 

EJ Manuel is a raw talent who showed flashes of very good play and very bad play. He's had some accuracy problems, yet he would became very accurate in close games going down to the wire. What this tells me is that he has the accuracy in him, and the issue is mental and not physical. Year two he should be settled down and look much better in much longer stretches of games.

 

Long story short, the Bills aren't picking a QB in the 1st round.

[Maury Ballstein]

All I know is I seriously doubt EJ goes 2-0 vs Miami. Downplay what Thad did all u want but he got it done and looked much better than the seasoned Tannehill with fewer weapons.

 

You could have played qb and we would have won. Defense have up zero. Props to Thad but he's got a backups skillset IMO.

[thewildrabbit]

Defense won this game as are QB play has been terrible all year and we need help there big time as are wide receivers do to but are defense is fine .

The defense, AND running game won that game IMO.

 

Once Woods was ejected and Goodwin left with an injury it seemed like Hackett went all out with the running game. Once that run game was working well it helped keep the Bills defense fresh and off the field. It also limited Talleywhackers chances to make a comeback.

 

Thing of beauty to watch... punt,punt,punt,punt,punt,punt,punt,punt,punt....(that's right, 9 punts in a row! )...INT,punt, downs, INT

 

We need to FIRE NAT HACKETT! Then try to hire Frank Reich away from The Chargers. He's got DECADES of valuable experience, and has Phil Rivers playing very well this season -Then after a mostly defensive early draft, we take a talented QB prospect in later rounds. May faves are Connor Shaw, Tommy Rees, and David Fales.

Ken Whisenhunt is the current Chargers OC. Reich is the QB coach.

 

Personally I'd rather try and hire Whisenhunt as Bills OC

[thebandit27]

And what I see is an incredibly gifted quarterback with great intangibles who has played very well in spite of missing half of the preseason and 4.5 weeks of the regular season (before today's game).

 

I consider myself a pretty good observer of the NFL and I think he's played well.

 

It's astounding to me how many people dwell on his bad plays ignoring the two dozen or so throws he's made this year that we haven't seen a Bills quarterback make since Drew Bledsoe's first year here.

 

The comments today about Thad Lewis' abilities relative to EJ Manuel are nothing short of idiotic IMO.

 

^ This pretty much says it all. I wouldn't go so far as to say EJ has played "very well", but I'd say he's looked the part of a rookie QB that has had the much-expected ups and downs, but will develop into a very good player.

 

I wanted to draft EJ. I want him to succeed. However his propensity for injury makes me worry. I would not blame the organization for drafting QB this draft. Especially if there is a Manziel or Bridgewater available.

 

I have no problem drafting another QB if the team is that worried about his injuries; I don't agree with that assessment myself.

 

And, you're welcome TYO. It may be somewhat of a surprize to learn that tens of thousands of Bills fans also consider themselves pretty good observers of the NFL, including me. While I don't observe that Manuel is Geno-bad (yes, I believed Smith would be THIS bad), the 2 dozen or so HORRIBLE plays our Rook made washes out your positive plays and we're left with a complete unknown at the games' most important position. My angst over this stems from the Bills FINALLY having such good talent on the team overall that we'd be competing for a playoff game this year, we're it not for the poor play and multiple missed games by 'the Chosen One'. Talent windows don't stay around like they used to and this teams' playoff drought is approaching epic proportion in an era where EVERY team can turn their fortunes around in one year. As for Bledsoe-like throws, I recall most good observers in awe over Fitzy's sidearm slings for TDs that "few players can make"! He says "Hi" from Tennessee..

 

IMO, Manuel is a 'project QB' we simply don't have the luxury of time to invest, and his gangly, scrawny legs are a huge concern. I'm good with nurturing him but NOT if we don't get another top prospect in here via Draft or trade this off-season.

 

Just my idiotic opinion.

 

If you're going to use the words gangly and scrawny to describe EJ, then how would you describe Ryan Tannehill?

 

And no, the two dozen bad throws don't wash out anything. The good plays still count, regardless of how stuck on the poor ones people may seem to be...and whether some posters here want to recognize it or not, the numbers clearly show that the kid has made more positive plays than negative ones.

 

It really seems to me that unless a QB comes in here and looks like Andrew Luck from day one, some fans on this board will be ready to kick him to the curb. To that I say: good luck, no pun intended. QBs take time to develop in this league, and even once they do, there are still going to be bumps in the road. It's amazing to me that so many apparent "good observers" don't recognize this, or--in the very least--get too emotional when it comes to their home team to remember it.

 

Just for fun, compare EJ Manuel's rookie stats to Andrew Luck's...I think you'll be absolutely shocked at how similar they are. Would you call Luck a complete unknown at QB? I only ask because his 28 turnovers (18 INT, 10 fumbles) in 2012 would--by your logic--wash out the 28 combined TDs he scored (23 TD passes, 5 TD runs).

 

Look, the point here is very simple: if you're only going to be satisfied if a QB comes in and plays Luck-type football from day one, then you're going to be waiting a long, long, long, long time. You cannot point to more than 1 or 2 QBs currently starting in the NFL that have done it AND managed to sustain the pace over time.

[Turbosrrgood]

I do not think EJ our Thad have shown anything to justify being a good NFL QB. But at this point if I have a choice of who to start for a game I choose Thad. My argument goes like this:

 

1. Both are horribly inaccurate. So no advantage either way here.

2. EJ checks down. Thad airs it out. On a third and long I'll take my chances with a 20 yard jump ball rather than a 3 yard check down.

3. Thad has emotion. He was visually upset when he misses throws. If EJ misses Hogan like Thad did, EJ would jog off. Thad was on the ground pissed off.

 

Obviously, I am just a fan and do not see the practices or many of the inner mechanics of the game. However, based on these few principles I like Thad.

 

The only argument I can see for EJ (and I am sure I will hear it in a bunch of responses) is that EJ is a work in progress and has been battling injuries. For me personally, I am tired of excuses and waiting.

 

Last point, going into next season I would rather have a proven veteran or another first round draft QB. But between the EJ and Thad, give me Thaddeus or give me death.

 

I was so hoping to see a post like this.

 

So Thad had an extremely mediocre game, where he started 1-7, threw one nice deep pass (all Woods), 193 yards an INT and no TD's...Now he's the savior?

 

The Bills won because of an amazing defensive performance and Fred Jackson. Thad did a good job not messing up too much.

 

Also, I was amazed that Miami didn't blitz Thad much considering the problems he has had with that (the INT was cased by one of the few blitz plays they ran).

Edited December 23, 2013 by Turbosrrgood

[thebandit27]

I was so hoping to see a post like this.

 

So Thad had an extremely mediocre game, where he started 1-7, threw one nice deep pass (all Woods), 193 yards an INT and no TD's...Now he's the savior?

 

The Bills won because of an amazing defensive performance and Fred Jackson. Thad did a good job not messing up too much.

 

Also, I was amazed that Miami didn't blitz Thad much considering the problems he has had with that (the INT was cased by a blitz).

 

Yep...just imagine what we'd say about EJ if he, say--just for example--started 0-4 with an INT in the first quarter of a road game, and then finished 17-20 with 2 TDs (plus a rushing TD), 0 INTs, and got the win...

 

Good thing that didn't happen last week, or else comments like the one you responded to just wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.

[CSBill]

The problem with EJ is that, we still don't really know what we have. He has looked very good at time, and has looked like a lost rookie at times.

 

My biggest concerns with him is (besides the early run of injuries): He does not appear to have that on the edge, reckless confidence, "do hard things" attitude that all great QBs have. He needs to show he has the moxy to take some risks and make difficult throws once in awhile. He always seems abundantly cautious in his decision making (reminds me a lot of "Trentative" in that respect). Even when he decides to run on occasion, he never really seems committed to it.

 

Thad Lewis, while maybe not having the natural skills and size of Manuel, does show that kind of moxy. He is, however, best suited for the back-up role, and I think he is a very valuable asset to have on any team. And, he has the confidence of his teammates, he has proven that they can win with him. That is an under appreciated, but extremely important player/role on any team.

 

Back to EJ: What I really wonder about concerning him is, how much does coaching comes into his play? Is he limited? over cautious? because Hackett and company are making him that way, or is it him? While this is hard to measure, the eyeball test seems to suggest the offense doesn't have that same level of shyness and timidity when Lewis is in there?

 

So back to my point: I don't think we know what we have yet with EJ, and unfortunately only time will tell so we're going to have to wait until next year to get a better read on that. We all hope he's the answer, but there just isn't enough evidence yet to come to a conclusion. That being said, this is the NFL, and time waits for no one. If he doesn't prove it early next year, we could be starting all over again . . . and, make sure you have Thad wrapped up and ready to go. He may be needed sooner then we want, but he's not a bad #2 option.

[BillsBytheBay]

EJ is going to BE THE STARTER.

or HE WON'T.