BuffaloRebound Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 Wally Pipp had Lou Gherig Trend Downwards had Ryan Fitzmagic maybe EJ has Thad? Stranger things have happened. In the end.........they need to get another potential franchise QB in the mix here. Relative to what's expected of a young QB in the NFL today......EJ has not been impressive. Thad looks like a future Fitzpatrick-esque limited reserve QB. That's not enough. Talent is wasting here. Mack is a nice prospect but the franchise impact of having even just a *good* QB is greater than an NFL DPOY candidate. QB's control the game. And if you get very lucky.......and teams do........you get a franchise altering QB. They don't call Lucas Oil Stadium "The House that Freeney Built". Great post. By 2nd year, there are no more excuses for NFL coaches. Think Marrone is smart enough to realize upgrading the QB position is by far the most important thing that needs to be done. Manuel's capable of improving, but if I were Marrone I wouldn't bet my career on it. If there's a franchise type QB available in Round 1, organization would be foolish to pass.
YoloinOhio Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 Great post. By 2nd year, there are no more excuses for NFL coaches. Think Marrone is smart enough to realize upgrading the QB position is by far the most important thing that needs to be done. Manuel's capable of improving, but if I were Marrone I wouldn't bet my career on it. If there's a franchise type QB available in Round 1, organization would be foolish to pass. IMO none of the QBs this year are the can't miss type. So it actually works in their favor they took one last year. Next year will be a better QB draft, as it looks right now.
San-O Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 They CAN. They just don't. You build a team around a QB. More importantly, QB is the single hardest position to play in the NFL and the hardest to transition from college. And there is only one on the field and typically teams only carry 2 active. So to spend 1 st rd pick two years in a row on the same position before you know whether the 1st one is the guy you want running the show long term, and when you have other needs you need to address,doesn't make a ton of sense to most front offices. It takes more than one season for a QB to show what he can be as an NFL QB. That goes for guys who are bad their rookie year, guys who are great their rookie year, and guys who are average. Bradford looked really good his rookie year and then regressed. Same with RG3 - they were both ROY. Tannehill is a guy who has improved significantly in his second year. Roethlisberger and Eli Manning both made huge strides in 2nd and 3rd year. The second (and third, if teams will wait that long) is the year to really evaluate. Sime guys regress as teams figure out how to defend them with some film (i.e. Geno's 1st half of the year vs. his 2nd). That doesn't mean a team won't bring in other QBs - later round guys, FAs, that they like. But 1st and 2nd rd is for players who are going to start on your team, hopefully. Only 1 QB can start at a time. I know people want to argue they already know EJ should not be that guy and list all the reasons why. But coaches and NFL personnel guys do not think the same way as fans. EJ is under a 1st rd contract. Sure, the $ isn't what it used to be. But they don't want 2 QBs eating up 2 first rd contracts when they have other guys the need to keep. You make some excellent points, really. My concerns are general QB play, but his health is an issue IMO, and his general accuracy and ability to hit receivers down field. With the Bills having nobody behind him as we saw this year, I draft a QB again for backup AND competition if for no other reasons. You can't assume he is going to make it through the next season and you can't have another throw away year as they did this season regarding the QB play. IMO. If he turns out to be the the real deal, GREAT! You maybe have some trade bait with the other QB?
YoloinOhio Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) You make some excellent points, really. My concerns are general QB play, but his health is an issue IMO, and his general accuracy and ability to hit receivers down field. With the Bills having nobody behind him as we saw this year, I draft a QB again for backup AND competition if for no other reasons. You can't assume he is going to make it through the next season and you can't have another throw away year as they did this season regarding the QB play. IMO. If he turns out to be the the real deal, GREAT! You maybe have some trade bait with the other QB? Now if there is a can't miss guy in the draft (which there usually isn't, but let's say there is an Andrew Luck) and you have the #1 pick, that is a different story. The Colts cut Peyton Manning for Luck! But that is not the case this year, from what I can tell, and is very rare to begin with. Even with Cam Newton there were very mixed opinions on what he would become. And the Bills are drafting in their usual spot of 8-10, so any "can't miss" guys would be gone and they need to much to trade away picks to move up anyway. Edited December 20, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo
BADOLBILZ Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 They CAN. They just don't. You build a team around a QB. More importantly, QB is the single hardest position to play in the NFL and the hardest to transition from college. And there is only one on the field and typically teams only carry 2 active. So to spend 1 st rd pick two years in a row on the same position before you know whether the 1st one is the guy you want running the show long term, and when you have other needs you need to address,doesn't make a ton of sense to most front offices. It takes more than one season for a QB to show what he can be as an NFL QB. That goes for guys who are bad their rookie year, guys who are great their rookie year, and guys who are average. Bradford looked really good his rookie year and then regressed. Same with RG3 - they were both ROY. Tannehill is a guy who has improved significantly in his second year. Roethlisberger and Eli Manning both made huge strides in 2nd and 3rd year. The second (and third, if teams will wait that long) is the year to really evaluate. Sime guys regress as teams figure out how to defend them with some film (i.e. Geno's 1st half of the year vs. his 2nd). That doesn't mean a team won't bring in other QBs - later round guys, FAs, that they like. But 1st and 2nd rd is for players who are going to start on your team, hopefully. Only 1 QB can start at a time. I know people want to argue they already know EJ should not be that guy and list all the reasons why. But coaches and NFL personnel guys do not think the same way as fans. EJ is under a 1st rd contract. Sure, the $ isn't what it used to be. But they don't want 2 QBs eating up 2 first rd contracts when they have other guys the need to keep. This topic has been discussed at length here many times and there has never been a compelling argument against drafting a QB in round 1 in back-to-back years. Just because teams do it that a) continue to lose or b) actually find their franchise QB on the first try.......doesn't mean that is the right approach. The Bills could have drafted a QB with their first pick in every draft since the playoff drought started and all they WOULDN'T have to show for it is Leodis, CJ, Dareus and Gilmore. That's it. Not much for fourteen years of first picks. If they simply drafted the next QB who was eventually selected after their pick in those drafts they would have Brees, Rodgers, Flacco, Cutler and Kaepernick. I would trade Leodis, CJ, Dareus and Gilmore straight up for any of those guys in their prime........and I'd throw in the 10 years of picks that aren't even with the team just for good measure. Bottom line: most important thing is to get THE BEST QB that you can get. Everything else is secondary.......including getting a guy to succeed Manny Lawson.....who isn't by any means the reason the Bills are losing games.
bills1960 Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 I get that we could use some more depth at OLB but why address the pass rush when we're top in the league in sacks? Why would we pass on WRs like Mike Evans or Sammy Watkins when clearly a number one wide out is our biggest priority.
YoloinOhio Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 I get that we could use some more depth at OLB but why address the pass rush when we're top in the league in sacks? Why would we pass on WRs like Mike Evans or Sammy Watkins when clearly a number one wide out is our biggest priority. No Watkins in the 1st, not tall enough. Another team who already has a big WR may want him that high but I would want a bigger guy in the 1st. That said. Watkins' drug/suspension history doesn't appear to be something Whaley and Marrone would go for that early.
OldTimer1960 Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 Thad is a free agent after the season, with four starts this year. He will draw attention on the market. Bills wil need to show him the money, or he will be gone. Not Byrd kind of money, but top backup kind of money. And, if somebody else thinks he is a starter, he will be gone, as starter money will not come from the Bills. so, the bills still have a QB problem...... I think that you are over-estimating Lewis. He did better than we might have expected, but I don't see a mad rush for any other team to sign him to a big backup contract. Do t get me wrong, I was pleasantly surprised with his play, but he is unlikely (IMO) to get top $
KOKBILLS Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 If Thad Lewis plays well again on Sunday. I think teams will view him as a solid #2. Not a scout QB. He is a great clipboard holder for a team with a solid starter. He is smart and knows the game according to Cutcliff so he can add a view that an established starter may be able to leverage. And if the starter goes down the team can feel slightly uncomfortable. As opposed to totally screwed like GB was. He won't get top tier backup money but there will be a market for him. We'll see...There certainly will be a bigger market for him than there was at the beginning of this season...But I doubt much more...He can change that a bit with a big game vs. Miami...I'm cautiously open to him becoming the Bills long-term back-up if he continues to improve...There are things I like...But he's got to protect the ball better...
Boatdrinks Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 Thad is a free agent after the season, with four starts this year. He will draw attention on the market. Bills wil need to show him the money, or he will be gone. Not Byrd kind of money, but top backup kind of money. And, if somebody else thinks he is a starter, he will be gone, as starter money will not come from the Bills. so, the bills still have a QB problem...... The impact of Thad Lewis not being on the 2014 Bills roster would be right around zero. Seriously, the Bills would do well to let him walk and add a vet backup or a mid round draft choice QB. The guy was serviceable, but got one win in a game that appeared lost and was rescued by the defense making a play late. The Bills need a much more dependable backup or a guy with some serious upside in the backup role. Neither Tuel nor Lewis makes the grade here.
SBUffalo Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 As far as the QB discussion goes: they aren't going to take one early. I'm okay with that. Get another weapon or two (specifically at TE) and then rebuild the offensive line around Wood and Glenn. Only take a QB if Murray slips into round 4/5.
1billsfan Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) No Watkins in the 1st, not tall enough. Another team who already has a big WR may want him that high but I would want a bigger guy in the 1st. That said. Watkins' drug/suspension history doesn't appear to be something Whaley and Marrone would go for that early. It's a myth that you need a tall WR to have a successful passing offense that can win you a Superbowl. Here's some recent history... 2012 Ravens - Smith/Boldin 2011 Giants - Nicks/Cruz 2010 Packers - Jennings/Driver 2008 Steelers - Ward/Holmes 2006 Colts - Harrison/Wayne Sammy Watkins has an average height for an NFL WR. With that being said, his skill set far outweighs the very tall Mike Evans. If you watch Evans, he falls down very easily once contacted by the defender. If you watch Watkins' video the guy has it all...great hands, jumps, jukes, speed, and can take it to the house on any catch. Watkins looks NFL ready and a future NFL #1 star receiver. As for his drug background, while a concern he appears to have turned that around... http://www.cbssports...enated-receiver Edited December 21, 2013 by 1billsfan
simpleman Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 Thad Lewis has an opportunity to shush all QB talk this weekend. He already had three chances and didn't make that kind of impact on the coaches.
mannc Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 It's a myth that you need a tall WR to have a successful passing offense that can win you a Superbowl. Here's some recent history... 2012 Ravens - Smith/Boldin 2011 Giants - Nicks/Cruz 2010 Packers - Jennings/Driver 2008 Steelers - Ward/Holmes 2006 Colts - Harrison/Wayne Sammy Watkins has an average height for an NFL WR. With that being said, his skill set far outweighs the very tall Mike Evans. If you watch Evans, he falls down very easily once contacted by the defender. If you watch Watkins' video the guy has it all...great hands, jumps, jukes, speed, and can take it to the house on any catch. Watkins looks NFL ready and a future NFL #1 star receiver. As for his drug background, while a concern he appears to have turned that around... http://www.cbssports...enated-receiver Thank you. The notion that the Bills had to have a tall, red zone WR brought us James Hardy instead of DeSean Jackson.
Solomon Grundy Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 Wally Pipp had Lou Gherig Trend Downwards had Ryan Fitzmagic maybe EJ has Thad? Stranger things have happened. In the end.........they need to get another potential franchise QB in the mix here. Relative to what's expected of a young QB in the NFL today......EJ has not been impressive. Thad looks like a future Fitzpatrick-esque limited reserve QB. That's not enough. Talent is wasting here. Mack is a nice prospect but the franchise impact of having even just a *good* QB is greater than an NFL DPOY candidate. QB's control the game. And if you get very lucky.......and teams do........you get a franchise altering QB. They don't call Lucas Oil Stadium "The House that Freeney Built". They don't call Ravens Stadium "The House that Trent Dilfer built" either! A "game changer" is just that no matter what position they play! You can have a dominating defense control games also. Chicago'85 did it, The Ravens, and to a point the Dallas Cowboys in the 90s. Those Cowboys teams with Charles Haley and the like held teams down. EJ Manuel at this point in his career looks like he can, at least, " manage games". A dominant defense will help get this team over the top!
Andrew Son Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 No Watkins in the 1st, not tall enough. Another team who already has a big WR may want him that high but I would want a bigger guy in the 1st. That said. Watkins' drug/suspension history doesn't appear to be something Whaley and Marrone would go for that early. God, I remember all this talk about WR size the year we took Hardy. It was the same year Desean Jackson came out. The general consensus was that we didn't need another roscoe, we needed a guy like Hardy. Size is secondary to the ability to play. Watkins is a stud and far superior IMO
YoloinOhio Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) It's a myth that you need a tall WR to have a successful passing offense that can win you a Superbowl. Here's some recent history... 2012 Ravens - Smith/Boldin 2011 Giants - Nicks/Cruz 2010 Packers - Jennings/Driver 2008 Steelers - Ward/Holmes 2006 Colts - Harrison/Wayne Sammy Watkins has an average height for an NFL WR. With that being said, his skill set far outweighs the very tall Mike Evans. If you watch Evans, he falls down very easily once contacted by the defender. If you watch Watkins' video the guy has it all...great hands, jumps, jukes, speed, and can take it to the house on any catch. Watkins looks NFL ready and a future NFL #1 star receiver. As for his drug background, while a concern he appears to have turned that around... http://www.cbssports...enated-receiver Maybe for other teams it is not crucial, but for this offense it is and if I'm the Bills that is what I want if they are taking one that high in the draft. I'm not talking about a Hardy type, although that is an example people like to use from past regimes. Clearly you want a better talent than that, again if drafting one that high. I don't think they, based on their assessment of what they are looking for, would commit 1st round money to Watkins. Someone else probably will. Edited December 21, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo
1billsfan Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) Maybe for other teams it is not crucial, but for this offense it is and if I'm the Bills that is what I want if they are taking one that high in the draft. I'm not talking about a Hardy type, although that is an example people like to use from past regimes. Clearly you want a better talent than that, again if drafting one that high. I don't think they, based on their assessment of what they are looking for, would commit 1st round money to Watkins. Someone else probably will. So the Bills have a better WR plan than these recent Superbowl winning teams had? That plan being getting a "tall" #1 WR even though he's not nearly as talented as the 6'1" Watkins? There's a completely valid reason why people keep bringing up the James Hardy pick. Because it's the perfect example of the Bills blowing a high draft pick at WR because height was more important than actual skills and talent. Edited December 21, 2013 by 1billsfan
Kirby Jackson Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) They don't call Ravens Stadium "The House that Trent Dilfer built" either! A "game changer" is just that no matter what position they play! You can have a dominating defense control games also. Chicago'85 did it, The Ravens, and to a point the Dallas Cowboys in the 90s. Those Cowboys teams with Charles Haley and the like held teams down. EJ Manuel at this point in his career looks like he can, at least, " manage games". A dominant defense will help get this team over the top! Not to be a contrarian but you mentioned a team that won 13 years ago,team that won 18 years ago and a team with an HOF QB. It's different now with the rules. You cannot win without a QB period. With that being said I think that EJ has another year but he does not look like the answer to me. Edited December 21, 2013 by Kirby Jackson
H2o Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) Thad is a free agent after the season, with four starts this year. He will draw attention on the market. Bills wil need to show him the money, or he will be gone. Not Byrd kind of money, but top backup kind of money. And, if somebody else thinks he is a starter, he will be gone, as starter money will not come from the Bills. so, the bills still have a QB problem...... This site has Lewis listed under contract until 2015 http://www.spotrac.c.../buffalo-bills/ Edited December 21, 2013 by H2o
Recommended Posts