Alaska Darin Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 Russell Wilson couldn't be our Russell Wilson. This franchise eats quarterbacks and ***** out trains wrecks. I think your memory of Thad's performance in Miami is failing.....He was less than impressive to put it mildly. The defense was largely responsible for that win with the biggest play being Mario's strip/sack. Russell Wilson has thrown out some turkey performances over the last two seasons and has been rescued by that defense. That's football. Lewis has looked pretty good for a guy with almost no pedigree and experience. He's smart, athletic, and can make all the throws. He lacks experience and it's unlikely he'll ever get a real shot without a catastrophic injury to whoever is in front of him.
zow2 Posted December 20, 2013 Author Posted December 20, 2013 I took a few minutes to look up the college stats of Lewis, Wilson and Manuel. Clearly Wilson had the far more productive college career. He and Lewis had 4 full years of play while EJ played extensively in only his last 2 years at FSU. You can't overlook how the quality of their teams affected their numbers. Thad played for a ho-hum Duke team that was "out-talented" every week in the ACC. RUssell Wilsons completion percentage went from about 58% in 3 years at NC State to a whopping 73% in his year at Wisconsin. His TD to INT ratio also exploded (in a good way) when he played for an excellent Wisky team. As for EJ, people that say his accuracy was in question coming into the NFL are full of it. Seems like accuracy was his major positive coming out. Thad Lewis Comp 877 Att 1510 Pct 58.1 Yds 10,065 Y/A 6.7 TD 67 Int 40 Rate 123.4 Russell Wilson Comp 907 Att 1489 Pct 60.9 Yds 11,720 Y/A 7.9 TD 109 Int 30 Rate 147.2 EJ Manuel Comp 600 Att 897 Pct 66.9 Yds 7,741 Y/A 8.6 TD 47 Int 28 Rate 150.4
mattsox Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) Come on dude? Really? I know really???? Thad Lewis??? LOL. Keep grasping at straws. I'm sure one is bound to stick. Edited December 20, 2013 by mattsox
716 Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) I hate political correctness, but I do have a somewhat PC observation: Why is it that everyone always compares black quarterbacks to other black quarterbacks and not white ones? Why can't Thad Lewis be our Mark Brunnell? I've often wondered this as well. EJ is synonymous with Culpepper and McNabb it seems like. Why not Big Ben? Edited December 20, 2013 by 716
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 I've often wondered this as well. EJ is synonymous with Culpepper and McNabb it seems like. Why not Big Ben? Agree with this and I hate it. I always compared RG3 to Steve Young coming out of college. I definitely see EJ as more Big Ben than any other QB. Johnny Football should be compared to Mike Vick but I'm sure it will be Tebow.
Garranimal Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) I took a few minutes to look up the college stats of Lewis, Wilson and Manuel. Clearly Wilson had the far more productive college career. He and Lewis had 4 full years of play while EJ played extensively in only his last 2 years at FSU. You can't overlook how the quality of their teams affected their numbers. Thad played for a ho-hum Duke team that was "out-talented" every week in the ACC. RUssell Wilsons completion percentage went from about 58% in 3 years at NC State to a whopping 73% in his year at Wisconsin. His TD to INT ratio also exploded (in a good way) when he played for an excellent Wisky team. As for EJ, people that say his accuracy was in question coming into the NFL are full of it. Seems like accuracy was his major positive coming out. Thad Lewis Comp 877 Att 1510 Pct 58.1 Yds 10,065 Y/A 6.7 TD 67 Int 40 Rate 123.4 Russell Wilson Comp 907 Att 1489 Pct 60.9 Yds 11,720 Y/A 7.9 TD 109 Int 30 Rate 147.2 EJ Manuel Comp 600 Att 897 Pct 66.9 Yds 7,741 Y/A 8.6 TD 47 Int 28 Rate 150.4 I would emphasize here that you made a very good point and then completely ignored it in your summation. EJ's numbers were extremely impacted by the talent around him and the competition he played. EJ had insane talent and played largely against glorified D-II football teams (the ACC). When faced with better competition, his numbers looked more like this..... Cmp Att Yds Pct TDs Int Long 18 33 182 54.5 1 3 27 It was the lack of production in games that were losses that had the FSU fan base questioning his ability to QB what was a stacked team. It is also worth noting that he was sacked over 60 times in two years against some weak defenses. Another college QB put up these numbers......Superstar or Bust? Comp 691 Att 995 Pct 66.4 Yds 9285 Y/A 9.3 TD 88 Int 16 Rate 170.8 Edited December 20, 2013 by Garranimal
YoloinOhio Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 I would emphasize here that you made a very good point and then completely ignored it in your summation. EJ's numbers were extremely impacted by the talent around him and the competition he played. EJ had insane talent and played largely against glorified D-II football teams (the ACC). When faced with better competition, his numbers looked more like this..... Cmp Att Yds Pct TDs Int Long 18 33 182 54.5 1 3 27 It was the lack of production in games that were losses that had the FSU fan base questioning his ability to QB what was a stacked team. It is also worth noting that he was sacked over 60 times in two years against some weak defenses. Another college QB put up these numbers......Superstar or Bust? Comp 691 Att 995 Pct 66.4 Yds 9285 Y/A 9.3 TD 88 Int 16 Rate 170.8 So does that apply to Winston's #s as well? He hasn't played anyone yet.
H2o Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 no...but he might make a nice #3. EJ is our #2 and we are still searching for a #1.
bufffan031 Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) All of this blame for QBs and coaches is ridiculous. Can no one else see how miserably the offensive line is playing? The Bills have allowed 43 sacks so far this year. Only 3 teams have more(Miami, Jacksonville and the Jets). We have 2 top tier running backs who struggle mightily to find running lanes. We all ready have a lot of talent on offense but the foundation of that offense was never completed. Build up the trenches and we will suddenly see the offense clicking. I like Glenn and Woods, but the rest of the OL is incredibly weak. I really think EJ and Thad can be real good if they are not continuously running for their lives. Fortunately, they both have some wheels, but that is no way to run an offense. Why does everyone think our line is atrocious? They have only had about 3 really bad games this season. Out of the 43 sacks you mention, 8 of them came in the first Jets game and another 7 came in the Tampa Bay game. If you take those 15 sacks out of the equation then they have only given 28 sacks in all the other games. Every offensive line is gonna have a couple bad games a season. Edited December 20, 2013 by bufffan031
mattsox Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) Why does everyone think our line is atrocious? They have only had about 3 really bad games this season. Out of the 43 sacks you mention, 8 of them came in the first Jets game and another 7 came in the Tampa Bay game. If you take those 15 sacks out of the equation then they have only given 28 sacks in all the other games. Every offensive line is gonna have a couple bad games a season. Yeah. They're bad. We need atleast a new LG and RG for next season. Still have hopes on Pears at RT. 43 Sacks in inexcusable. Alot of them are Manuel's fault. Guy's gotta THROW THE BALL! Edited December 20, 2013 by mattsox
Mr. WEO Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 Yeah. They're bad. We need atleast a new LG and RG for next season. Still have hopes on Pears at RT. 43 Sacks in inexcusable. Alot of them are Manuel's fault. Guy's gotta THROW THE BALL! Exactly. I don't see how he compares to Big Ben ast all. Ben is known as a pocket passer who excels at eluding and escaping a collapsing pocket--ultimatley finding an open receiver. EJ doesn't do that at all. He looks, but doesn't find....
Garranimal Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) So does that apply to Winston's #s as well? He hasn't played anyone yet. I think that was part of the National Championship argument going into all of the conference championship games...was it not? That FSU had a pretty weak strength of schedule.....63rd or 66th as i recall while Auburn (for example) had a top 20 SOS and had beaten Bama. Ohio State had a long winning streak going back two full seasons....and it was clear they were a product of weak scheduling. I think the NCG will go a long way to determining what is to be thought of Jameis Winston. Point to a defining game for FSU from this year? Clemson? This is my biggest complaint with CFB. There should be no rankings until after the 7th week of the CFB season. Teams trend off of preseason rankings which are just opinions of what might happen. Florida was ranked in the top 15 preseason.....and they sucked about as bad as a big time program can suck. The concept would certainly apply to Braxton Miller's numbers. Edited December 20, 2013 by Garranimal
dezertbill Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 Russell Wilson has thrown out some turkey performances over the last two seasons and has been rescued by that defense. That's football. Lewis has looked pretty good for a guy with almost no pedigree and experience. He's smart, athletic, and can make all the throws. He lacks experience and it's unlikely he'll ever get a real shot without a catastrophic injury to whoever is in front of him. I would have to disagree with the pedigree comment. His coach at Duke was the same QB coach that shaped the Mannings. He molded Lewis and spoke nothing but praise about him. I do agree that being a backup he will get no shot to really establish himself unless Manuel suffers a major injury. I like how he plays though, and it would be interesting to give the guy a full season and see how he would do.
Rockinon Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 Why does everyone think our line is atrocious? They have only had about 3 really bad games this season. Out of the 43 sacks you mention, 8 of them came in the first Jets game and another 7 came in the Tampa Bay game. If you take those 15 sacks out of the equation then they have only given 28 sacks in all the other games. Every offensive line is gonna have a couple bad games a season. 43 sacks is still 43 sacks. Everyone wants the QB to be the hero. Football is not all about the QB, though. Yes, this is more of a QB league than it used to be, but ignoring the foundation of your team is bad. Very bad. The foundation is not the QB, it's your offensive and defensive lines. That's how it has always been and will remain, no matter how much the NFL tries to tinker with the rules of the game. Listen to the QBs and RBs in this league when they are asked why they are successful. The answer? The line kept them clean. Watch what happens when a defense knows it's going to be a pass. You have to be able to pick up a blitz and this line is utterly over matched even against some of the weakest defensive fronts in the league. Watch what happens when CJ is in the backfield. This offensive line is blown up by some of the weakest defenses in the league and quite quickly too I might add. So yea, the OL needs a lot of work. You can argue 'till your blue in the face about this being "the new NFL" or "it's a QB driven league". What a bunch of hogwash. What this team needs is a line that can do it's job. So far they have failed miserably. It's football and the fundamentals of the game never change regardless of how rule changes effect the game. Ej has been pretty effective with play action and seems to get better as a game progresses. I don't have a problem with him except I wish he would get things going in the 1st Qtr for a change. Seems to start slow. Give him a bit of time and he might even start hitting our receivers with world class speed. This offense is designed to make big plays but the line is crippling it. I would have to disagree with the pedigree comment. His coach at Duke was the same QB coach that shaped the Mannings. He molded Lewis and spoke nothing but praise about him. I do agree that being a backup he will get no shot to really establish himself unless Manuel suffers a major injury. I like how he plays though, and it would be interesting to give the guy a full season and see how he would do. I'm excited about seeing how Lewis does this week. Being at home should help him out quite a bit. I really like the kid's moxie. You never now how a career will play out. Maybe EJ doesn't meet expectations and he gets a shot or perhaps injury gives him a chance. Or he could go somewhere else and get a shot. Maybe he plays soooo good that EJ never gets back on the field. That's what happened when Brady got his chance.
bufffan031 Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 43 sacks is still 43 sacks. Everyone wants the QB to be the hero. Football is not all about the QB, though. Yes, this is more of a QB league than it used to be, but ignoring the foundation of your team is bad. Very bad. The foundation is not the QB, it's your offensive and defensive lines. That's how it has always been and will remain, no matter how much the NFL tries to tinker with the rules of the game. Listen to the QBs and RBs in this league when they are asked why they are successful. The answer? The line kept them clean. Watch what happens when a defense knows it's going to be a pass. You have to be able to pick up a blitz and this line is utterly over matched even against some of the weakest defensive fronts in the league. Watch what happens when CJ is in the backfield. This offensive line is blown up by some of the weakest defenses in the league and quite quickly too I might add. If we didn't run the ball on 90% of our first and second down plays then I really think that would help our oline. I think it has more to do with predictable playcalling than them actually being bad. If other teams know exactly what we are doing every single time it's gonna be extra easy for them. That in my opinion is why the run game is as bad as it is is. It has more to do with the defense knowing we are gonna run on first and second down and then throw on third as opposed to our oline actually being bad at blocking
Dibs Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 .....That in my opinion is why the run game is as bad as it is is. It has more to do with the defense knowing we are gonna run on first and second down and then throw on third as opposed to our oline actually being bad at blocking But our run game is good.
bufffan031 Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 But our run game is good. Our running game is decent but it can be better. We were top 5 in rushing after the first 4 games of the season but it has dropped since. What I mostly meant is that I think that is why we are seeing a dip in CJ's production. The way we run it make's it extremely predictable to know what we are doing on a play by play basis. If we mixed it up a little bit I think CJ will be back to how he was last season. I don't think it has to do with our oline it's more predictability
JPS Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 Russell Wilson couldn't be our Russell Wilson. This franchise eats quarterbacks and ***** out trains wrecks. Boom. Well played. Tj graham is our Russell Wilson. That hurts.
YoloinOhio Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 I NEVER thought RW would be what he is today after watching him at Wisconsin. Never. He looked good, but not great. Didn't think he had the physical attributes or skill set to be a successful NFL QB. I was so wrong. The thing I notice most about him is his leadership, command of the huddle, maturity, and clear commitment to film study. He is a top 10 QB in the league, IMO.
Dibs Posted December 21, 2013 Posted December 21, 2013 Our running game is decent but it can be better. We were top 5 in rushing after the first 4 games of the season but it has dropped since. What I mostly meant is that I think that is why we are seeing a dip in CJ's production. The way we run it make's it extremely predictable to know what we are doing on a play by play basis. If we mixed it up a little bit I think CJ will be back to how he was last season. I don't think it has to do with our oline it's more predictability I agree it can be better.....but we are still good and still top 5. I also agree that the predictability hinders things somewhat(we potential have a spectacularly good running game). I am fairly confident that the predictability however is directly related to our inexperience at QB.
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