How Much is Russ Brandon to Blame for Bills' Current Plight?

[BillnutinHouston]

I don't know why you think you have to go away...that was a good catch, as I foolishly searched "Buffalo" as opposed to the entire GBA.

Agree.

[May Day 10]

going back to the original intent of the thread, the issue is broken down into a series of questions:

 

Do you believe the Bills are in a "Plight"?

 

Do you believe Ralph Wilson was muddling and preventing upper management from building a winner correctly all the way to the age of 94?

 

Do you believe Russ Brandon has any "say" in the football department, and if so, what degree?

 

Do you take the public image/words of OBD at face value?

 

I do believe all of these things have reasonable points and counter-points on all sides of the argument. With me, I am always very skeptical of what comes out of OBD, and I have lost all/most of my trust with them. I do see a pattern of scapegoating guys like Donahoe, Levy, Jauron, Modrak, Guy, Gailey... and most lately, Wilson offered himself. "He was a Jauron guy" or "Levy set this franchise back 5 years". They may not outwardly say that, but they know large pieces of the fan base buy in. Each time they do this (go in a "new" direction), the seats at upper management stay the same/shift one step to the left. I truly believe that is a reason Nix festered around awhile like he did. If EJ, the 2013 draft class, or Marrone flame out, Nix will be the guy no longer in the room to blame. Upper Management consists of Brandon, Overdorf, and Littman, with Whaley now assuming Nix's role. These guys are good and experienced at preserving a very predictable take for Mr. Wilson and it is in their best interest to keep the fans at bay, while Mr. Wilson collects the profit each year. They do want to win, but that is secondary, which is their right, but that is how 14 year playoff droughts happen.

 

The entire conversation is a waste of time anyways because nobody North of Whaley is ever getting fired by Mr. Wilson.

 

 

 

I admit I do like the 2013 draft (as long as they don't pass up a QB they like in order to "protect" the Manuel decision), I like the Marrone hire, and the Sheppard/Hughes trade. Im not too upset over the Levitre situation and like the Wood re-signing. I do however disagree with everything regarding the handling of Byrd.

[thewildrabbit]

This is the second rebuild in 4 seasons, the third is 8 seasons, and the fourth in 13. I think the Bills lead the league in attempted rebuilds, and they can't even blame Al Davis.

 

Rebuilding, with the right management and personnel decisions, can happen quickly. It's not a 3-4 year process anymore.

Naa, the Cleveland Brown have the market cornered in rebuilding, and for that matter bringing in QB's. 6 different coaching staffs, and 19 QB's on the team since 1999.

 

The Browns at least had 2 winning seasons in that time 10-6, one playoffs at 9-7 in 2002

[Delete This Account]

unlikely, i'll get drawn into this one.

 

jw

Edited December 20, 2013 by john wawrow

[BADOLBILZ]

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that at all.

 

You can talk about increased exposure of the game, which is legitimate, but you cannot disregard the fact that the area's population has declined by nearly 20% since the early 90's. And I find it hard to believe that there was insufficient exposure for a team with back-to-back Superbowl appearances to sell out a game in the '92-'93 playoffs.

 

Does that mean that the team isn't capable of selling out games nowadays by simply fielding a winning team? Of course not...what it means is that this area has, historically, had much more difficulty filling its stadium than the larger markets. That cannot be denied.

 

 

 

 

A game like this weekend draws maybe 20,000 fans to Rich Stadium in 1984. We know this because that's what happened. I noted in another thread that the opener only drew 48,000.

 

With our apparently startlingly shrinking population......and 12 extra playoffless seasons preceding it than in 1984......it will still draw 55,000-65,000 this Sunday.

 

Current Bills fans are what their record says they are: INCREDIBLE

[mannc]

This is the second rebuild in 4 seasons, the third is 8 seasons, and the fourth in 13. I think the Bills lead the league in attempted rebuilds, and they can't even blame Al Davis.

 

Rebuilding, with the right management and personnel decisions, can happen quickly. It's not a 3-4 year process anymore.

Absolutely correct. Look at the Bengals, 49ers and Seahawks. In the midst of the last Bills re-build (2010-11), these teams were as bad or worse than Buffalo. Then they hired GMs with vision, employed good coaches, hit home runs with multiple draft choices and/or found competent (or better) QBs. The Bills did none of those things. I look at the 2011 draft, example, as a major turning point for the Bengals and a huge missed opportunity for the Bills. With their first two picks, the Bengals drafted impact players at the two most important positions in football, while the Bills, drafting before the Bengals in both instances, drafted pedestrian players at far less critical positions. Since that time, the Bengals have gone on to winning seasons and the playoffs while the Bills have embarked on yet another re-build.

Edited December 21, 2013 by mannc

[BADOLBILZ]

Absolutely correct. Look at the Bengals, 49ers and Seahawks. In the midst of the last Bills re-build (2010-11), these teams were as bad or worse than Buffalo. Then they hired GMs with vision, employed good coaches, hit home runs with multiple draft choices and/or found competent (or better) QBs. The Bills did none of those things. I look at the 2011, for example, as a major turning point for the Bengals and a huge missed opportunity for the Bills. With their first two picks, the Bengals drafted impact players at the two most important positions in football, while the Bills, drafting before the Bengals in both instances, drafted pedestrian players at far less critical positions. Since that time, the Bengals have gone on to winning seasons and the playoffs while the Bills have embarked on yet another re-build.

 

The biggest difference between the Bills and those teams is the aggressiveness with which they approached the job at hand. The Seahawks made a bunch of mistakes in a very short period of time in trying to get their QB........but they tried A LOT and got their guy. They took a ton of chances. The Bills are traditionally a baby-steps organization. No way Seattle goes into a second year with EJ Manuel without bringing in serious competition.

[Max997]

 

 

Ralph no longer has to approve things, Russ didn't need to get his approval to make Whaley the GM or Marrone the Head Coach. He didn't have to call him asking for permission to sign Hackett or Pettine. For better or worse, the buck no longer stops with Ralph. It stops with Russ.

 

As most every person who moved out of their mom and dad's house can attest, seeking permission and making your own choices aren't the same thing.

 

And you know this how...bc Russ says so? Whaley was in line to be the GM the day he was hired so what was left to decide?

 

Russ is in the same position he has been in for years regardless of if he has to get final approval from Ralph or not

 

That entire press conference and announcement was nothing more then a PR move by a PR guy to give the illusion of change but at end of the day what actually changed? Russ is still running things and Nix was still the GM with Whaley soon to take over.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Max997

[Dibs]

The biggest difference between the Bills and those teams is the aggressiveness with which they approached the job at hand. The Seahawks made a bunch of mistakes in a very short period of time in trying to get their QB........but they tried A LOT and got their guy. They took a ton of chances. The Bills are traditionally a baby-steps organization. No way Seattle goes into a second year with EJ Manuel without bringing in serious competition.

 

I'd hardly call their efforts to find a future Franchise QB aggressive. They picked up retreads Jackson & Flynn and drafted a 3rd round QB. They ended up getting very lucky with minimal investment.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Dibs

[Nick the Greek]

Anyone remember the T.O. signing?

 

That was all Russ

[Trader]

"Plight"??? There is no plight in the front office and the ownership of this team. Perhaps the OP's goals are not aligned with the goals of the team ownership? Brandon's job is to optimize the value of the NFL team that Ralph Wilson owns that is currently named, "The Buffalo Bills", and currently plays at the taxpayer owned Stadium in Orchard Park that for the time being is named "Ralph Wilson Stadium". To date Brandon has done a good job of that. We will find out just how successful Brandon has been when the team is auctioned off to the highest bidder in the future just as Mr. Wilson has promised every time he is asked the question. Mr. Wilson deserves credit for having greater loyalty to the city which bears the teams name than the players who wear the Buffalo Bills uniforms. Of course next year is a new challenge In terms of ticket sales and everything is subject to change.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I think Brandon has done a good job marketing the fans Bills. By playing a game in Toronto and their apathetic fans has cooled talk of the NFL expanding into that market. Genius. As a GM he was a place holder and we know he is not football man. He has done what his boss has asked of him to do. The Bills situation is due to the scouting and poor draft selections. Maybin is the worst first round pick by them in decades.

 

This... He's made a lot of money selling a substandard product for years!

[SBUffalo]

He's doing everything right as far as money goes. Just not a winning guy, though. When the franchise starts caring about winning then he'll be out and we'll have eight home games a year.

[GunnerBill]

 

 

I'd hardly call their efforts to find a future Franchise QB aggressive. They picked up retreads Jackson & Flynn and drafted a 3rd round QB. They ended up getting very lucky with minimal investment.

 

They invested a lot in Flynn actually but I agree with your point because the fact that Flynn went so spectacularly wrong (he stank in training camp and pre-season) not only didn't hurt them but actually helped them because of their gamble on Wilson. The Seahawks planned on Flynn being the starter though.... They got lucky.

[mannc]

 

 

They invested a lot in Flynn actually but I agree with your point because the fact that Flynn went so spectacularly wrong (he stank in training camp and pre-season) not only didn't hurt them but actually helped them because of their gamble on Wilson. The Seahawks planned on Flynn being the starter though.... They got lucky.

Incorrect. Flynn did nothing to lose the job in training camp. Wilson was just spectacular from day one.

[GunnerBill]

No. Flynn looked hopeless. Yes, Wilson won the job, he played extremely well but had Flynn not looked totally confused in the pre-season they would have started Flynn. Basically the Bills and Seahawks 2010 rebuilds were going along pretty much the same, save for them scraping into the play offs at 7-9 one year until they selected Wilson and we selected TJ Graham. That's unquestionable a pick Buddy Nix would like to have back, but to suggest they were taking a much more aggressive approach to their rebuild particularly at Quarterback is not true.

[Beerball]

 

 

I'd hardly call their efforts to find a future Franchise QB aggressive. They picked up retreads Jackson & Flynn and drafted a 3rd round QB. They ended up getting very lucky with minimal investment.

What is aggressive is that they didn't sit and wait. How much time passed between Jackson (didn't they also trade for a SD backup?), Flynn and Wilson? Were they bashful about letting a vet go (Jackson), or did they roll the dice with 2 very inexperienced guys? Did they go with the safer of those two options (Flynn) or did they quickly realize that Wilson was the guy?

 

That's aggressiveness. Roll the dice knowing that you'll hit few and miss many. Buffalo will be unwilling to do that based on everything we know about the team.

[machine gun kelly]

I think Brandon has done a good job marketing the fans Bills. By playing a game in Toronto and their apathetic fans has cooled talk of the NFL expanding into that market. Genius. As a GM he was a place holder and we know he is not football man. He has done what his boss has asked of him to do. The Bills situation is due to the scouting and poor draft selections. Maybin is the worst first round pick by them in decades.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I see the Toronto series as probably the way we keep the Bills in Buffalo. I don't see any ownership group or NYSE having the funds to build a new stadium. If they did, you'd want closer to Ft. Erie, but in NYSE so you could attract more Canadian, and Rochester fans to games. I never want to see the Bills sold to another city so it's a necessary evil to keep a small market team with a dwindling population. I am grateful of the severe penalty for the next 7 years by NYS.

 

I'm impressed with Brandon from a pure marketing standpoint. I live in Tampa, and to think the Bills get more seats filled than Tampa with far more money and 2.5 times the population. What Brandon did wrong is his choices in GM's and Coaches since 2000. I believe in Whaley and Marrone. I think Marrone made a mistake in Hacket. He's not experienced enough for the job like Pettine. I wish we would hire Kubiak, but that won't happen.

 

As far as drafting under Nix and Whaley, as well as free agent acquisitions, I'd rate them as a B+/A-. If you look at solid pickups like Hughes, Lawson, Branch, the o-line, etc. they are solid players. For the draft it is not that common to hit on EJ, Woods, Alonso, and Goodwin. The year before Gilmore, and Glenn. We're not perfect, but a much more talented team. We keep a rookie QB out there for an. Off-season and a full season, our record is different. Now we really need a good back up QB who is a veteran next year. There should be someone out there. Imwould've even been happy if we found a way to keep Fitz in the back up role. He's worth 3-4 mil.

 

We will be better next year with another solid draft and a couple of good role players like we did this year.

 

My estimate on our misses is letting too many guys go after their first four years and winning for someone else, use the $ wisely and resign people like Wood early as the continuity will definitely make us better.

[DFITZ1]

Excellent post!

 

Regarding the stadium location, RS was the last choice after the Erie County legislature vote down a domed stadium in Amherst. It was meant to be a cheap stadium on cheap and with all the seats possible. Ironically, if he dome in Amherst were built at that time, WNY would have had to build a new stadium 10-20 years ago as all the 70's era domes have been condemned by NFL economics. The Bill did not expect many sellouts but were surprised by the number and only then realized the impact of the Rochester market.

[BADOLBILZ]

What is aggressive is that they didn't sit and wait. How much time passed between Jackson (didn't they also trade for a SD backup?), Flynn and Wilson? Were they bashful about letting a vet go (Jackson), or did they roll the dice with 2 very inexperienced guys? Did they go with the safer of those two options (Flynn) or did they quickly realize that Wilson was the guy?

 

That's aggressiveness. Roll the dice knowing that you'll hit few and miss many. Buffalo will be unwilling to do that based on everything we know about the team.

 

 

I'd hardly call their efforts to find a future Franchise QB aggressive. They picked up retreads Jackson & Flynn and drafted a 3rd round QB. They ended up getting very lucky with minimal investment.

 

They also traded a 2011 3rd round pick to San Diego for Charlie Whitehurst.

 

Flynn wasn't a retread by any means.....he was the top FA QB on the market.......a young backup who had some great performances against Detroit and in a Monday night game against NE.

 

All those guys got a short leash.........Hasselbeck was in the mix as well. They weren't willing to settle for mediocrity.

 

Someone else astutely mentioned that the last time the Bills did something like that they drafted Todd Collins in the second round, traded for Billy Joe Hobert and then traded for Rob Johnson and signed Flutie in a short period of time.

 

Then followed that up with 21 wins the next two seasons.