How Much is Russ Brandon to Blame for Bills' Current Plight?

[GunnerBill]

 

 

I have been beating the same drum for years and expressed fury here on tbd as the "changes" happened last january.

 

Apologies I'm still pretty new here - What exactly have you been beating the drum for? (genuine question not on a wind up!)

Edited December 18, 2013 by GunnerBill

[PromoTheRobot]

Here's a guy who knows how to build a winner!

 

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2013/12/jerry_jones_re-explains_his_to.php

 

PTR

[BillnutinHouston]

It is wrong to say the team needs to leave the area to remain viable after 200 million dollars are handed to them and they haven't delivered in what's going on 2 decades.

 

First, Brandon has never said the team needs to leave the area. He HAS been a huge proponent of regionalization and that's a no-brainer. If you take personal offense to the area's weak economy and the need to regionalize, anything I or others say will be lost on you. The facts are the facts. The truth is, if you love the Buffalo Bills and want the next owner to be able to afford to keep them here, Brandon's business moves are the best thing you could ask for. Since you want to quote Brandon, you also must quote his repeated statements that regionalizing is critical to positioning the team to stay in WNY for generations to come. Isn't that what we all want?

 

Every time he does that interview he alludes to that as well as their difficulty to sell out games. Each time he says this, he points to the early 90s, which implies that even if they were good we wouldn't show up.

Sure the truth hurts, but that pain makes it no less the truth. Should Brandon deal in fantasy or fact?

 

In the 90's, when Bills fans were absolutely spoiled with the team's success, the truth is that there WERE occasional blackouts. If you recall, the Greatest Comeback playoff game was blacked out. Would you feel better if Brandon and everyone else just pretended it wasn't blacked out?

 

Does the fact that that game was blacked out, in the midst of the Bills' great success, mean Bills fans are second class? Should anyone's mention of this inconvenient fact be cause to take offense? The answer is no on both counts. The fact is that the WNY market IS relatively small and the economic buying power of the region is far more limited than other markets. Hell, the Houston suburb I live in is more populated than the City of Buffalo. Brandon has an obligation, not only to Mr. Wilson but also more importantly to the next owner, to deal in reality and maximize the market in order to have any shot of keeping the team in WNY. Your taking such offense to these realities doesn't in any way further the cause of keeping the team in WNY.

 

It's interesting that in the middle of your anti-Brandon argument you cite a lack of regionalization back in the 90s as a reason why talking about the 90's now isn't relevant. Although I would argue that blackouts in the 90s during the dynasty years are revealing of the very economic limitations of the region that Brandon has to work to counter, your acknowledgement of the impact of regionalizing is a good first step toward understanding the challenges of operating an NFL team in WNY, and by the way it's also a backhanded compliment to the job Brandon has done.

Edited December 19, 2013 by BillnutinHouston

[May Day 10]

For the reasons I outlined that were ignored, the early 90s provides zero indication of how ticket sales would be today if they fielded a winner. Every one of those games would have sold out the current stadium anyways, with the exception of the Raiders game that was the coldest game in NFL history.

 

"Regionalization" and the Toronto Series are not the same thing. Regionalization happened well before the Toronto series, and those games are a terrible representation of the Bills and NFL (But that has been hashed over too many times in other threads). Winning would improve Regionalizing efforts tenfold over this Series. The Series is only a lump sum cash grab for Mr Wilson (cant blame him), and a dress rehearsal for Toronto to one day move the Bills there (cant blame them).

 

Shouldnt this drive a Bills fan nuts? that the President of the team who is supposed to kiss fans (customers) asses, force us into this discussion about how "worthy" we are in the face of nearly record-breaking futility? The excuses and spin are always provided by the team, but when it comes to the fans, we dont get the same treatment. The mere fact that they have to point to 20 years ago as an example where the fans wont show up to support a winner is pathetic in of itself.

 

 

 

And "leaving the area" was perhaps poorly worded on my part. I guess I meant "playing home game(s) out of the area". I did not make that up, and anyone who has heard Brandon speak will back up the fact that these are his talking points. As a STH who is still a fan through all this (face it, anyone still posting here is as legit a fan as they come), it is a punch in the gut each time he does this. My friends who are in the same boat as me feel the same way. Here at TBD seems to be the only place fans take everything the team says at face value as if its gold. All teams/franchises spin to appease fans. Are we really supposed to believe a 94 year old Ralph Wilson was preventing Brandon, Littman, Overdorf, Nix, Whaley, etc from fielding an awesome team, and now Wilson has "stepped away" and given the keys to these guys and suddenly everything is going to be top shelf?

 

There was a time that you could have told me that Buffalo could never sell out The Aud/Marine Midland/HSBC, let alone for 41 games. In the 90s, as we like to cite, even in the LaFontaine/Mogilny year they could only get 13K people there. Like I mentioned earlier, I remember walking up and buying game 6 tickets to a Montreal series as well as a Bruins one. Present day, add in a couple decent teams, followed by a perceived demand for tickets. Waiting list plus they have raised ticket prices quite a bit.

Edited December 19, 2013 by May Day 10

[K-9]

First, Brandon has never said the team needs to leave the area. He HAS been a huge proponent of regionalization and that's a no-brainer. If you take personal offense to the area's weak economy and the need to regionalize, anything I or others say will be lost on you. The facts are the facts. The truth is, if you love the Buffalo Bills and want the next owner to be able to afford to keep them here, Brandon's business moves are the best thing you could ask for. Since you want to quote Brandon, you also must quote his repeated statements that regionalizing is critical to positioning the team to stay in WNY for generations to come. Isn't that what we all want?

 

Sure the truth hurts, but that pain makes it no less the truth. Should Brandon deal in fantasy or fact?

 

In the 90's, when Bills fans were absolutely spoiled with the team's success, the truth is that there WERE occasional blackouts. If you recall, the Greatest Comeback playoff game was blacked out. Would you feel better if Brandon and everyone else just pretended it wasn't blacked out?

 

Does the fact that that game was blacked out, in the midst of the Bills' great success, mean Bills fans are second class? Should anyone's mention of this inconvenient fact be cause to take offense? The answer is no on both counts. The fact is that the WNY market IS relatively small and the economic buying power of the region is far more limited than other markets. Hell, the Houston suburb I live in is more populated than the City of Buffalo. Brandon has an obligation, not only to Mr. Wilson but also more importantly to the next owner, to deal in reality and maximize the market in order to have any shot of keeping the team in WNY. Your taking such offense to these realities doesn't in any way further the cause of keeping the team in WNY.

 

It's interesting that in the middle of your anti-Brandon argument you cite a lack of regionalization back in the 90s as a reason why talking about the 90's now isn't relevant. Although I would argue that blackouts in the 90s during the dynasty years are revealing of the very economic limitations of the region that Brandon has to work to counter, your acknowledgement of the impact of regionalizing is a good first step toward understanding the challenges of operating an NFL team in WNY, and by the way it's also a backhanded compliment to the job Brandon has done.

 

Outstanding post.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

He was heavily involved in the Marrone hire as he and Whaley conducted the initial interviews. So, other than Marrone and under his new title, I can't think of any other time Brandon was involved in hiring the HC.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Involved, yes. Perhaps you've heard differently than I have; my understanding was that it was Whaley/Nix that made the final decision on Marrone...

[K-9]

Involved, yes. Perhaps you've heard differently than I have; my understanding was that it was Whaley/Nix that made the final decision on Marrone...

 

You are correct. Brandon let Whaley and Nix make the final call on Marrone. But I was glad to see Brandon be so heavily involved in the interview process with Whaley. Brandon is in an unprecedented position with the club and while he's smart enough not to be a micro-manager, if I were him, I'd want to be able to look any HC candidate in the eye just to have a better understanding of why or why not my football people felt a certain way.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[BillnutinHouston]

May Day, I guess the main difference between you and I is, I don't take WNYs weak market personally. It is not a reflection of my worthiness, and I do not take any of Brandon's actions or statements as challenges to my personal worthiness. I believe he is doing what he thinks he needs to do, and is too savvy a marketer to try in any way to diminish his customers - but he is a businessman and therefore must be a realist. I don't see his stating facts or responding honestly to questions from Howard Simon as challenging the worthiness of customers.

 

I grew up in WNY and although I've chosen to leave the area for my career, I will always consider myself a WNYer. Living where I do and being a STH and club seat owner, I rest easy in the knowledge that I'm more than a fan, I'm an "investor" in keeping the team in place. I do, however, worry about fans who can't see the bigger picture and those who are actually against regionalization (not saying you're one of those).

 

[todd]

I'm as upset as anyone about the season, but for pete's sake we are in the FIRST YEAR OF REBUILDING UNDER A NEW ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE! Yes, I am friggin' shouting. I think some people need a few shots of perspective. There have been plenty of mistakes made, but there have been some good things as well. Trading for Jerry Hughes was borderline genius at this point. Drafting Kiko has had good returns. Our defense is showing glimmers of dominance.

 

Sorry dudes, it just isn't going to happen in one year, and I hate to tell you that everything won't be perfect. Get a grip on reality.

 

It seems for some inexplicable reason that Ralph Wilson decided to hand over the keys to the current Bills' "kingdom" to a person who has not demonstrated anything significant, short of following Boss Ralph's orders. And now it appears he is even wavering on his lone signinicant "accomplishment", by publicly acknowledging he is reconsidering the infamous "Bills Toronto" series, which on both sides of the Peace Bridge, has been doomed since its very inception. We only need to look back at his short lived stint as interim GM, following TD's dismissal, to see firsthand that Russ is clearly not a "football man"then . But exactly what is he? He doesn't appear to be a marketing genius either. He does have a resonant voice, perhaps he was really destined to replace the iconic John Facenda on NFL films. Otherwise I am at a loss?

[May Day 10]

I dont think WNY is and should be considered a market below the NFL. If we say/admit that, they are as good as gone. If we are talking in terms of "maxing" out with full PSLs, Billion Dollar Stadium, and Suites, sure, we are at the bottom of the league. The team can still survive here.

 

New Orleans was the ghetto of the league, it looked like relocation would happen and they couldnt support the team, they became good, and they exploded and are now regarded as one of the best fanbases.

 

I do believe that if the Bills became a relevant team and were in the running for Division Titles, possible home playoff games, etc we would have no trouble selling out the stadium and they would be able to begin raising seat prices.

 

Ill step out of this thread after this post because (as usual) nobody is changing their opinion.

[thebandit27]

You are correct. Brandon let Whaley and Nix make the final call on Marrone. But I was glad to see Brandon be so heavily involved in the interview process with Whaley. Brandon is in an unprecedented position with the club and while he's smart enough not to be a micro-manager, if I were him, I'd want to be able to look any HC candidate in the eye just to have a better understanding of why or why not my football people felt a certain way.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Fully agree...that is what I was told as well.

 

I dont think WNY is and should be considered a market below the NFL. If we say/admit that, they are as good as gone. If we are talking in terms of "maxing" out with full PSLs, Billion Dollar Stadium, and Suites, sure, we are at the bottom of the league. The team can still survive here.

 

New Orleans was the ghetto of the league, it looked like relocation would happen and they couldnt support the team, they became good, and they exploded and are now regarded as one of the best fanbases.

 

I do believe that if the Bills became a relevant team and were in the running for Division Titles, possible home playoff games, etc we would have no trouble selling out the stadium and they would be able to begin raising seat prices.

 

Ill step out of this thread after this post because (as usual) nobody is changing their opinion.

 

I guess that's the point: history shows that the bold statement is not correct. There were playoff games that didn't sell out here in the early 90's, while the team was in the midst of appearing in 4 straight Superbowls.

 

I don't think there are many of us hoping to change each other's opinions; my goal in this thread is to ensure that the facts I'm aware of aren't misrepresented.

[BillsVet]

I'm as upset as anyone about the season, but for pete's sake we are in the FIRST YEAR OF REBUILDING UNDER A NEW ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE! Yes, I am friggin' shouting. I think some people need a few shots of perspective. There have been plenty of mistakes made, but there have been some good things as well. Trading for Jerry Hughes was borderline genius at this point. Drafting Kiko has had good returns. Our defense is showing glimmers of dominance.

 

Sorry dudes, it just isn't going to happen in one year, and I hate to tell you that everything won't be perfect. Get a grip on reality.

 

This is the second rebuild in 4 seasons, the third is 8 seasons, and the fourth in 13. I think the Bills lead the league in attempted rebuilds, and they can't even blame Al Davis.

 

Rebuilding, with the right management and personnel decisions, can happen quickly. It's not a 3-4 year process anymore.

[DC Bills Backer]

This is the second rebuild in 4 seasons, the third is 8 seasons, and the fourth in 13. I think the Bills lead the league in attempted rebuilds, and they can't even blame Al Davis.

 

Rebuilding, with the right management and personnel decisions, can happen quickly. It's not a 3-4 year process anymore.

 

I completely agree with this, teams that were bad last year have hired new coaches and are challenging for division titles/playoff spots while we are now at the end of 14 straight years without the playoffs and what more than likely will be the 6th year in a row finishing last in the AFC

East. Its unprecedented how bad we have become but when you have clowns running the organization and continuing to hire mediocre at best coaches I guess we should just expect that.

[thebandit27]

The early 90s?

 

You mean almost 30 years ago when the stadium was at a larger capacity, the NFL wasn't the most popular sport in the country by a wide margin and there was no such thing as the Internet(a much more convenient and easier way to buy tickets)?

 

Times have changed. If the Bills(a city starved for relevant football) were 8-6 or 9-5 fighting with the Dolphins for a playoff spot this game would've been sold out last week. I have no doubts.

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that at all.

 

You can talk about increased exposure of the game, which is legitimate, but you cannot disregard the fact that the area's population has declined by nearly 20% since the early 90's. And I find it hard to believe that there was insufficient exposure for a team with back-to-back Superbowl appearances to sell out a game in the '92-'93 playoffs.

 

Does that mean that the team isn't capable of selling out games nowadays by simply fielding a winning team? Of course not...what it means is that this area has, historically, had much more difficulty filling its stadium than the larger markets. That cannot be denied.

Edited December 19, 2013 by thebandit27

[todd]

Well, than keep on whining in your delusional state. Fact is, rebuilds can and do take more than one year, especially if you don't have a QB.

 

I prefer reality, you can continue to gnash your teeth with unrealistic expectations.

 

This is the second rebuild in 4 seasons, the third is 8 seasons, and the fourth in 13. I think the Bills lead the league in attempted rebuilds, and they can't even blame Al Davis.

 

Rebuilding, with the right management and personnel decisions, can happen quickly. It's not a 3-4 year process anymore.

[May Day 10]

the fact that the area's population has declined by nearly 20% since the early 90's.

 

This is not true. Erie County's population has declined about 5% since then, and as an also, Southern Ontario's population has grown.

 

 

 

 

sorry, Ill go away again

Edited December 19, 2013 by May Day 10

[LB3]

 

 

Its unprecedented how bad we have become but when you have clowns running the organization and continuing to hire mediocre at best coaches I guess we should just expect that.

 

What good/great coach would you hire that actually WANTS to come coach here?

[May Day 10]

I dont even know what defines a good/great coach any more. Its all about catching lightning in a bottle. Ron Rivera was coveted, he was hired, did OK, lost 2 games this season, was on the hot seat, the Panthers started winning, and now he is great again.

 

Marrone can do fine I think. I do like his attitude where he takes actual blame and admits he needs to learn/get better. I do think the Shanahans, Grudens, Cowhers of the world are probably too stuck in their ways and wont adapt to current times (both the sport as well as the personalities).

Edited December 19, 2013 by May Day 10

[thebandit27]

This is not true. Erie County's population has declined about 5% since then, and as an also, Southern Ontario's population has grown.

 

 

 

 

sorry, Ill go away again

 

I don't know why you think you have to go away...that was a good catch, as I foolishly searched "Buffalo" as opposed to the entire GBA.

[May Day 10]

its all good.

 

Im just tapped out with the discussion as I said all I got and was just repeating in a circle (regarding Brandon, attendance, Toronto)

Edited December 19, 2013 by May Day 10