littlelouie Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 My post wasn't referring to anything you said. It just happened to get positioned after your post. It wasn't referring to your post above it.
Mr. WEO Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 That's not correct in any way, shape, or form. What, exactly, did he say that you so ardently disagree with? By all appearances, has this past draft not been the best that the Bills have had in a long time? Do you think that any of the previous 4 coaching staffs were better than this one? It is to BRandon's benefit that short memories prevail here. Gregg Williams was a hardass who was going to whip this team into a contender. Jauron was hailed as guy who needed to be locked up early into a new contract when he went 5-1 in his third season. Gailey was some sort of genius who was "recommended by Cowher" and who's firing was "Jerry Jones's admiited biggest mistake" and he was going to change the culture here. We saw how all that turned out. Now the HC who was plucked from a locally popular, but decidedly second tier Div 1A school who hired a bunch of cronies for his staff. They have crafted 5 wins this year so far, starting off like the rest, despite the "best draft in years". Is this year's draft "the best in years"? Only if EJ pans out as a career starter for the Bills--because this years draft was all about the QB. The rest won't matter much. You could easily argue that the the 2009 draft was the best in years (despite Maybin)--yielding Wood, Byrd and Levitre.
Gerry Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 I don't know how much, if any, Brandon can be blamed for. The Bills are, and have been for years, a disfunctional organization and Brandon is just a piece of the disfunction. Marrone is his hire, so we will know more in a year or two, when we find out if he will be another "three and out" HC.
dancing_joker Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 So we're talking about 2008. The Bills selected Reggie Corner, Demetruss Bell, James Hardy, Leodis, and Stevie. I recall liking that draft at the time. Also the 2009 draft. Buddy wasn't the GM until December 31st, 2009. Russ Brandon was the GM in 2009. http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3/Brandon-promoted-to-CEO-Nix-named-Bills-GM/c474360d-4157-4de0-a282-cc1fe57be5d3
Rico Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 100% blame goes to Ralph. As lame as his stooges may appear to be, they are only doing what they are told to do.
May Day 10 Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 How's Terry Pegula working out? He is fine. He has put an unprecedented amount of resources toward growing the franchise in scouting and facilities. They are doing the right thing right now that will pay off. His big error was to trust the guys who were already spinning their tires and stale. As a Sabres fan, I couldnt be happier he is the owner. I also dont need to look over my shoulder anymore worried the team is going to leave. That is a buzz-kill. Just look at the Sabres' crowds during the bankrupcy years when it looked like relocation was imminent.
Max997 Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) Brandon hasn't been in the post for a calendar year yet...let's see how the football department moves forward over the course of a few seasons before we decide if he's taking the team in the right direction. were you really fooled by that fake announcement last year? Brandon is in the same position he has been in for years, nothing changed last year Edited December 18, 2013 by Max997
Campy Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 Also the 2009 draft. Buddy wasn't the GM until December 31st, 2009. Russ Brandon was the GM in 2009. http://www.buffalobi...82-cc1fe57be5d3 2009: Maybin (oops), Wood, Levitre, Byrd. I liked that draft, too.
thebandit27 Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 It is to BRandon's benefit that short memories prevail here. Gregg Williams was a hardass who was going to whip this team into a contender. Jauron was hailed as guy who needed to be locked up early into a new contract when he went 5-1 in his third season. Gailey was some sort of genius who was "recommended by Cowher" and who's firing was "Jerry Jones's admiited biggest mistake" and he was going to change the culture here. We saw how all that turned out. Now the HC who was plucked from a locally popular, but decidedly second tier Div 1A school who hired a bunch of cronies for his staff. They have crafted 5 wins this year so far, starting off like the rest, despite the "best draft in years". 1) None of that has anything to do with Brandon, as he didn't hire those guys 2) Judging by the tone of the team and the way they've played, do you really feel that this team is starting off the same as the others? 3) Is Mike Pettine a crony? How so? Is this year's draft "the best in years"? Only if EJ pans out as a career starter for the Bills--because this years draft was all about the QB. The rest won't matter much. You could easily argue that the the 2009 draft was the best in years (despite Maybin)--yielding Wood, Byrd and Levitre. Really? Netting a likely pro bowl LB in the 2nd round and dynamic receiving threats in the 2nd and 3rd don't matter if this QB doesn't develop? I strongly disagree. They won't have the same impact as a franchise QB, that's for sure, and if that's the point that you're trying to make, then this draft beats 2009 by default, since they didn't even attempt to get a QB in that draft. And I would say that--since there were 3 draft classes between 2009 and 2013, then it doesn't really matter which is better, since the 2013 draft could still be the best in years. Although, to a man, I think the 2013 draft will end up better, yes. Also the 2009 draft. Buddy wasn't the GM until December 31st, 2009. Russ Brandon was the GM in 2009. http://www.buffalobi...82-cc1fe57be5d3 Buddy didn't have the GM title, but he was running the personnel department in 2009. Brandon had (to my understanding) stepped back at that time. 100% blame goes to Ralph. As lame as his stooges may appear to be, they are only doing what they are told to do. For the 3rd time in this thread, I'll say it: this is not correct. Russ runs the business side of the team, and Whaley runs the football side. Ralph has no input. were you really fooled by that fake announcement last year? Brandon is in the same position he has been in for years, nothing changed last year You are incorrect. Wilson was making key decisions even up through last year; he's not anymore. I can't be any clearer on that.
Campy Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 were you really fooled by that fake announcement last year? Brandon is in the same position he has been in for years, nothing changed last year Ralph no longer has to approve things, Russ didn't need to get his approval to make Whaley the GM or Marrone the Head Coach. He didn't have to call him asking for permission to sign Hackett or Pettine. For better or worse, the buck no longer stops with Ralph. It stops with Russ. As most every person who moved out of their mom and dad's house can attest, seeking permission and making your own choices aren't the same thing.
May Day 10 Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 Do you mean like Dan Snyder in Washington? How about Jerry Jones in Dallas? Both of those guys are poster boys for "excited committed ownerers who spend a ton of money". I don't think either has had any great success in a long time. There is no conspiracy by Mr. Wilson and his folks to "dupe" the fans into buying an inferior product. The problem lies in poor decisions on players, bad luck and an inability to find a good/great QB. I can't think of any case where spending even a lot more would have solved their QB problem - unless someone thinks that they had any real shot at signing Peyton Manning... Those are the two examples of overzealous, overinvolved, unqualified, over-egotistical owners. There are about 30 teams who have been able to figure it out. The Bills and the Browns for some reason cant. 14 years without making the playoffs in a league where almost 40% of the teams make it is not excusable and is almost a statistical impossibility. Also factor in that they have only been close 1 time, and that was after a terrible start and made possible by playing every bad team in the NFL in succession. All these bad decisions you name, and really no accountability (since Donahoe's firing). The answer is always to fire whatever inadequate head coach is in place, ask whatever curmudgeon they have sitting as the GM to resign, promote Russ Brandon more and shuffle chairs around a bit. Then the result is more false hope and false optimism, followed by more of the same.
mjt328 Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 The Bills have NEVER been clear about the jobs/input/responsibility of front office personnel. People have been blaming Ralph Wilson for years, because he is the common denominator throughout the (mostly losing) history of the Bills franchise. But nobody can prove that he's done anything over the last decade to help or hurt our team, other than hiring Donahoe, Levy, Brandon and Nix. I don't know what Russ Brandon does. Heck, I don't even know what Doug Marrone does - since our play-calling seems to be handled by the coordinators. .
stony Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 He is fine. He has put an unprecedented amount of resources toward growing the franchise in scouting and facilities. They are doing the right thing right now that will pay off. His big error was to trust the guys who were already spinning their tires and stale. As a Sabres fan, I couldnt be happier he is the owner. I also dont need to look over my shoulder anymore worried the team is going to leave. That is a buzz-kill. Just look at the Sabres' crowds during the bankrupcy years when it looked like relocation was imminent. Yeah, they were bigger than they are now lol. I get what you're saying, I just wouldn't say he's been perfect. Keeping the GM was a horrible move as you point out. But...in regards to the Bills situation, much better. Just kinda funny the results have been the same.
TheFunPolice Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 While we're basking in Russ Brandon's absolute power, let's take a step back and realize something: he's playing with someone else's toy. If/when Ralph (or the people around him) decide playtime is over, it ends. Thus, Russ is just playing king. He isn't really king.
thebandit27 Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 While we're basking in Russ Brandon's absolute power, let's take a step back and realize something: he's playing with someone else's toy. If/when Ralph (or the people around him) decide playtime is over, it ends. Thus, Russ is just playing king. He isn't really king. Nobody said he was king. What we said was that he runs the team, with no input from Wilson.
thebandit27 Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 ... but only marketing though Once again, nobody said that. What we said was that he runs the business side. There's far more to running a multimillion dollar business entity than marketing. And yes, Doug Whaley runs the football side...why is this so hard for you to accept?
gobillsinytown Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) This is an interesting discussion. After reading through most of it, I think the long term success or failure of any team comes down to: Quarterback. Solid drafting. Strategic free agent acquisition. A quick glance at the top teams in the last five years shows that they started building around a quarterback. Teams with unsettled quarterback positions have less success. So it would seem pretty simple: Just get your quarterback, right? More teams that not don't get the franchise quarterback decision right. The Bills have placed their bets on E.J. This year was a wash IMO because he missed five games. Next year bill be the key. Edited December 18, 2013 by gobillsinytown
Mr. WEO Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 1) None of that has anything to do with Brandon, as he didn't hire those guys 2) Judging by the tone of the team and the way they've played, do you really feel that this team is starting off the same as the others? 3) Is Mike Pettine a crony? How so? Pettine, no. Hackett clearly. Crossman he knew from GTech and Marrone picked him fresh out of the Detroit's dumpster. Tone? Hard to say. Started off somewhat promising but then lost a bunch of games to teams that aren't very good or just plain bad...getting blown out in some or losing late leads in others (and almost in Jax last week too.). To me, there's something missing in the coaching. Why shouldn't they be beating bad teams? Really? Netting a likely pro bowl LB in the 2nd round and dynamic receiving threats in the 2nd and 3rd don't matter if this QB doesn't develop? I strongly disagree. They won't have the same impact as a franchise QB, that's for sure, and if that's the point that you're trying to make, then this draft beats 2009 by default, since they didn't even attempt to get a QB in that draft. And I would say that--since there were 3 draft classes between 2009 and 2013, then it doesn't really matter which is better, since the 2013 draft could still be the best in years. No, they don't. Who's going to thropw to them? Our passing game is at the bottom of the league. And for the record, plenty here were touting Graham as a "dynamic receiving threat" only a year ago and he is anything but. You were intially arguing that the 2013 draft is the best in years, not could be. I guess you could then argue that the 2014 draft will be the best in years also.
Boludo Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 Brandon helped put the people in place that make the personnel decisions, therefore it is his fault. He doesn't care about winning and is just doing exactly what Ralph would be doing anyways if he wasn't too old to function.
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