CJ Spiller is an Outstanding Football Player

[JPS]

He is what his record says he is.......player who can make great plays but is not a great player.

 

i can't speak to his issues with getting winded......it appears that is the case.......but that is not why he can't stay on the field. He has had a lot of nagging injuries but he is a 200 pound RB, not a workhorse.

 

His problems aren't physical, he is just a very unintelligent football player.

 

VERY.

 

This causes him to make a lot of mistakes.

 

What people often confuse with instinctively hitting the hole is usually a product of a RB knowing what the defense is trying to do and understanding how the line is trying to block it. That back usually knows where that hole is likely to be at the snap.

 

Not so much with CJ.

 

And obviously, he is terrible in blitz protection. Again, he doesn't understand what the defense is doing. Everything is read and react with him.

 

The lack of intelligence hurts him in the pass receiving game as well. He doesn't know how to take advantage of the defense that is called.

 

The ability to do all of these things are what makes running backs "dynamic". Not the ability to run past your blocking and pick up 60 yards on one play every couple games.

 

I am sorry that the mother hens on this board get offended at my critique's of his problem but he is what he is. When he scored a 6 on his wonderlic exam that should have raised a red flag.

Boy, that is a great breakdown of CJ Spiller and I agree with it completely. He's like the antithesis of Stephen Jackson.

[BADOLBILZ]

The wonderlic is viewed by NFL teams as important for OL and QB. Any other position it's not critical. Especially RB. Some are trying to make it seem as though CJ's flaws are a result of lacking intelligence. This is nonsense. As Chuck Dickerson once said "you can't be too dumb to play football..it's NOT possible". A RB simply needs to run to where the hole IS, not where it is supposed to be. The concept of what the OL is trying to do means squat. Plays are often not blocked just as they are drawn up. Some guys will miss their block, others may not. That is where the instinct factor comes in. "Run to daylight". His pass pro troubles are not a lack of intelligence either. CJ is just not a physical guy. This shows up in everything he is aked to do. He always will try to bounce a play outside and outrun people as opposed to taking what is there and being physical after contact, a la Fred Jackson. The lack of toughness shows up in an unwillingness to be physical when doing the dirty work, AKA blocking.He is an elite athlete that doesn't like contact playing the most extreme contact sport of the big 4. I don't think W. McGahee was ever confused with an MIT graduate, but was a heck of a blocker and an instinctive physical runner. Intelligence and understanding concepts is overrated at the RB position, it's actually very easy for a rookie to come in and contribute at that position right away as it is purely instinct and toughness.

 

I certainly agree that CJ is not a physical player, but I don't think he is a devout coward, which is what you are implying. He just is prone to making bad decisions over and over. When CJ had a bad day in the opener he came out and said he was reverting to old mistakes. What mistakes? NOT FOLLOWING HIS BLOCKING. What 4th year RB in the NFL can't follow his blocks? Most RB's are out of the league when they don't follow their blocking. As for your belief that plays aren't usually executed as they are drawn up.........I guess I don't know what to tell ya'.........in the age of Playbook NFL and All-22 rewind it's amazaing to hear someone say something like that.

 

Seriously......get cable.

 

When you have a combination block that calls for the right guard to pull behind the center and block the MLB on the second level you can bet yourass that the intention was to attack THAT defensive alignment and that the RB is usually aware of where that hole is intended to be. Just because every play isn't busted for a long run doesn't mean it didn't work. Some plays are designed to gain at least X amount of yards and then hopefully there is a busted assignment and more is gained. Sometimes the offense and the defense are both OK with a 4 yard gain on first down. But back to the point......CJ routinely doesn't seem to know where those holes are supposed to be. As for the passing game.......he flat out can't identify blitzers or find the weak spots in a defense. Yeah, he is weak when he does block but it's the blocks he never reaches that have kept him on the bench on so many third downs........when his physical skillset is IDEAL for third downs.

 

I really shouldn't be bringing this up.......I understand these are timely topics and that is a great part of the reason this happens.....but my track record is that I say it and then a glaring example happens almost immediately. There will probably be a play against Miami where two free rushers come thru while CJ is in pass pro and he will take the outside man and leave the inside guy to knock Manuel out of the game.

 

Actually, scratch that. EJ will spin INTO the outside rusher for an additional 4 yard loss....EJ will just tweak his knee......and CJ will get another pass for doing the wrong thing.

Edited December 18, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ

[BADOLBILZ]

Boy, that is a great breakdown of CJ Spiller and I agree with it completely. He's like the antithesis of Stephen Jackson.

 

When he was going thru the draft process he was regularly and wrongly compared to Marshall Faulk. Most Bills fans hate Faulk because he will matter-of-factly tell you if you he thinks your team sucks.....a sensitive subject among Bills fans........but he was considered a very smart player on the field. That allowed him to convert his phyiscal skills into being a 3 down nightmare for defenses and an NFL MVP. Thurman also brought so much nuance to the position in his HOF career. CJ brings none of those intangible qualities.

[boyst]

When he was going thru the draft process he was regularly and wrongly compared to Marshall Faulk. Most Bills fans hate Faulk because he will matter-of-factly tell you if you he thinks your team sucks.....a sensitive subject among Bills fans........but he was considered a very smart player on the field. That allowed him to convert his phyiscal skills into being a 3 down nightmare for defenses and an NFL MVP. Thurman also brought so much nuance to the position in his HOF career. CJ brings none of those intangible qualities.

Faulk did not bust out of the league, either. It was not until St Louis that he really got to shine. He did very well in Indy but it was an uphill battle for respect.

[thewildrabbit]

There happens to be some serious problems with this years team other then one of the RB's. Some bad coaching, bad scheming, bad play calling, some really good players were replaced in the off season by what graded out to the very worst players in the NFL. Those "very worst" players are now gone from the team and yet there are still substandard players in the lineup.

My take is those substandard players are more of a concern then the RB who is so gifted he managed to gain 6.0 YPC avg while rushing for 1244 in only 7 game starts as the lead RB.

 

 

I was never a fan of drafting a RB in 2010, and not when the team had so many other obvious needs at various positions. However, since watching Spiller play in an offense in 2012 where he was utilized somewhat properly I could understand why they drafted him, as he can be such a potent offensive weapon that scares the crap out of opponents trying to defend against him. So scared in fact that many opposing teams this year stacked the box, and geared up their run defense to stop the run while keying on CJ, and thus forcing the rookie QB to beat them.

 

It wasn't his fault that this season the rookie OC kept calling run plays that managed to play right to the hands of the opposing defense. One game against the Jets Spiller had 13 rushes for 6 yards. This tells me that they guy wasn't even getting to the line before he was tackled. How exactly is that his fault? I'm already getting the suspicion that this coaching staff is another wasted three years, especially if the HC doesn't correct the problems with the OC and special teams coach this off season.

 

 

I just don't get all the bashing for a player who was diagnosed with a high ankle sprain in week four (this is usually a debilitating injury that requires 6 weeks of rest minimum), and he gutted it out by missing only one game this year.

 

I'll tell you what, the very last thing I would want to see is CJ Spiller playing for NE, Miami or the Jets.

[BADOLBILZ]

Faulk did not bust out of the league, either. It was not until St Louis that he really got to shine. He did very well in Indy but it was an uphill battle for respect.

 

True. Of course, when he was CJ's age he was the MVP of the NFL with over 1,000 yards receiving and rushing. I think people remember that as being near the end of his career. CJ is running out of time on his quest for the HOF.

 

I'll tell you what, the very last thing I would want to see is CJ Spiller playing for NE, Miami or the Jets.

 

The very last thing I would want to see is Tom Brady playing in our division.

[boyst]

True. Of course, when he was CJ's age he was the MVP of the NFL with over 1,000 yards receiving and rushing. I think people remember that as being near the end of his career. CJ is running out of time on his quest for the HOF.

When I get free time I am going to look up some stats on age/yards/carries/number of times over 1,000 after the first.

 

Basically, something like...

 

It took Reggie Bush XX games in XX seasons to reach 1,000 yards in a season @ age XX. He has since had XX seasons over 1,000 yards out of XX seasons he has played. His last season with 1,000 yards was XXXX.

 

Then do it for a bunch of players...

(another one I am working on is comparing tons of WR's.)

[Jkgobills]

Earlier in the thread a few posters mentioned that Spiller comes out after running the ball more than 10 yards, or if he touches the ball 2 plays in a row he comes out of the game. This has been something that has been going on with him in previous seasons as well.

 

Certainly it doesn't appear to be a lack of conditioning based on his appearance. It doesn't appear to be a lack of will or heart either. Maybe there is something wrong with him ( I have seen asthma mentioned....has this been confirmed?). Maybe it is a matter of body composition and muscle fiber type ( he looks like he is all fast twitch fibers, which have incredible burst but poor endurance....think of a 100 meter sprinter).

 

He is a vital part of our team, and a weapon on an offense that doesn't have many. He has played throughput the season with a painful high ankle sprain and showed great heart. In an offense that uses him correctly he will be very effective. Just not sure if he is capable of the endurance necessary for more than 15-20 total touches a game.

[Maury Ballstein]

 

 

I certainly agree that CJ is not a physical player, but I don't think he is a devout coward, which is what you are implying. He just is prone to making bad decisions over and over. When CJ had a bad day in the opener he came out and said he was reverting to old mistakes. What mistakes? NOT FOLLOWING HIS BLOCKING. What 4th year RB in the NFL can't follow his blocks? Most RB's are out of the league when they don't follow their blocking. As for your belief that plays aren't usually executed as they are drawn up.........I guess I don't know what to tell ya'.........in the age of Playbook NFL and All-22 rewind it's amazaing to hear someone say something like that.

 

Seriously......get cable.

 

When you have a combination block that calls for the right guard to pull behind the center and block the MLB on the second level you can bet yourass that the intention was to attack THAT defensive alignment and that the RB is usually aware of where that hole is intended to be. Just because every play isn't busted for a long run doesn't mean it didn't work. Some plays are designed to gain at least X amount of yards and then hopefully there is a busted assignment and more is gained. Sometimes the offense and the defense are both OK with a 4 yard gain on first down. But back to the point......CJ routinely doesn't seem to know where those holes are supposed to be. As for the passing game.......he flat out can't identify blitzers or find the weak spots in a defense. Yeah, he is weak when he does block but it's the blocks he never reaches that have kept him on the bench on so many third downs........when his physical skillset is IDEAL for third downs.

 

I really shouldn't be bringing this up.......I understand these are timely topics and that is a great part of the reason this happens.....but my track record is that I say it and then a glaring example happens almost immediately. There will probably be a play against Miami where two free rushers come thru while CJ is in pass pro and he will take the outside man and leave the inside guy to knock Manuel out of the game.

 

Actually, scratch that. EJ will spin INTO the outside rusher for an additional 4 yard loss....EJ will just tweak his knee......and CJ will get another pass for doing the wrong thing.

 

All the bills suck---badolbeelz in 2014.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Earlier in the thread a few posters mentioned that Spiller comes out after running the ball more than 10 yards, or if he touches the ball 2 plays in a row he comes out of the game. This has been something that has been going on with him in previous seasons as well.

 

Certainly it doesn't appear to be a lack of conditioning based on his appearance. It doesn't appear to be a lack of will or heart either. Maybe there is something wrong with him ( I have seen asthma mentioned....has this been confirmed?). Maybe it is a matter of body composition and muscle fiber type ( he looks like he is all fast twitch fibers, which have incredible burst but poor endurance....think of a 100 meter sprinter).

 

He is a vital part of our team, and a weapon on an offense that doesn't have many. He has played throughput the season with a painful high ankle sprain and showed great heart. In an offense that uses him correctly he will be very effective. Just not sure if he is capable of the endurance necessary for more than 15-20 total touches a game.

 

Wait. I thought that was 100% on Chan Gailey.

 

PS: Though I was never sure how Chan got his high school and Clemson coaches on board with the plan.

[CodeMonkey]

He is what his record says he is.......player who can make great plays but is not a great player.

Man that is the perfect one line synopsis of Spiller.

[BADOLBILZ]

Man that is the perfect one line synopsis of Spiller.

 

Thanks. As Sisyphean alluded to, people keep expecting CJ to be something he never has been. He was a prominent part of Clemson's offense for 4 seasons and he has been here 4 seasons now. It's not like there isn't a large body of work on the guy. He is in his prime as a RB right now and people still act like he should be graded on a rookie curve of some kind.

[John from Riverside]

I personally think the offense does not suit him.......

[CodeMonkey]

I personally think the offense does not suit him.......

Sadly for Buffalo and good for him, when he leaves Buffalo he will probably land on a team whose offense will be well suited for a situational back like him.

[Wesdawg]

I personally think the offense does not suit him.......

I think this sums it up.

[Boatdrinks]

I certainly agree that CJ is not a physical player, but I don't think he is a devout coward, which is what you are implying. He just is prone to making bad decisions over and over. When CJ had a bad day in the opener he came out and said he was reverting to old mistakes. What mistakes? NOT FOLLOWING HIS BLOCKING. What 4th year RB in the NFL can't follow his blocks? Most RB's are out of the league when they don't follow their blocking. As for your belief that plays aren't usually executed as they are drawn up.........I guess I don't know what to tell ya'.........in the age of Playbook NFL and All-22 rewind it's amazaing to hear someone say something like that.

 

Seriously......get cable.

 

 

Ummm way to take everything I said out of context and twist it to fit your point. Whatever. I have directv w/ sunday ticket and redzone, BTW. I said "often" , not "usually" re: plays. Big difference. Just that it is common for a block to be missed and an RB still makes a great play. Not that a stretch play is blocked up and the RB runs a power play. Geez... Things don't always work just the way the coaches drew it up. Sometimes a great athlete simply makes a play out of something that wasn't executed perfectly.Guys make plays on defense too. Blocks are missed and O linemen get beat. That's a far cry from saying most plays are just haphazard and therefore I must be watching the game on a 15" black and white. I also didn't imply that CJ is a "devout coward", Just that he obviously is not a guy who relishes contact. He doesn't play very physically. He's more of a finesse back that want's to use his speed and outrun people than put his head down and grind out tough yards inside. In CJ, I see a guy who is reluctant to do the dirty work, others see a guy who must be dumb.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Ummm way to take everything I said out of context and twist it to fit your point. Whatever. I have directv w/ sunday ticket and redzone, BTW. I said "often" , not "usually" re: plays. Big difference. Just that it is common for a block to be missed and an RB still makes a great play. Not that a stretch play is blocked up and the RB runs a power play. Geez... Things don't always work just the way the coaches drew it up. Sometimes a great athlete simply makes a play out of something that wasn't executed perfectly.Guys make plays on defense too. Blocks are missed and O linemen get beat. That's a far cry from saying most plays are just haphazard and therefore I must be watching the game on a 15" black and white. I also didn't imply that CJ is a "devout coward", Just that he obviously is not a guy who relishes contact. He doesn't play very physically. He's more of a finesse back that want's to use his speed and outrun people than put his head down and grind out tough yards inside. In CJ, I see a guy who is reluctant to do the dirty work, others see a guy who must be dumb.

 

I'm not sure it is pure stupidity either; there are many dumb athletes. With CJ, my suspicion is that he likes the fame more than the actual game.

[BADOLBILZ]

With CJ, my suspicion is that he likes the fame more than the actual game.

 

I can't say that I have seen anything from Spiller that would support that. By no means a self promoter and definitely an unselfish teammate. He also plays the game very hard and finishes his runs and genuinely seems excited to be out there.

 

If he could follow his blocks and execute his assignments he would be the dynamic player he was supposed to be.

[firemedic]

Properly but under-utilized last year, poorly designed offense and play calls this year.

Would love to see the spread mixed in on offense.........

[Braedenstearns]

Anyone have the highlight of his run yesterday? The 23 yard one. I loved the part at the end when he tossed the defender out of bounds!