CJ Spiller is an Outstanding Football Player

[boyst]

In short. Fred Jackson is the best back on this team. CJ is leaps and bounds a better athlete, though. CJ lacks a lot of things, most noticibly intelligence. Listening to the guy its clear; he and Leodis could have a thrilling conversation together. He also lacks mental toughness and that killer drive, the type that takes no holds and gets it done. Now, there are some players good enough to play that type of football and be highly successful, Mario Williams for example, but CJ lacks toughness. He does not seem motivated and driven to push the edge of his talents nor does he seem capable of understanding just how much better he is then he plays. It boils down to confidence and that is something that is hard to coach.

 

I want Spiller on this team and I realize you have to take the good with the bad. I know on 3rd and 4 he is going to either get you -4, 2 1/2 or 37 yards. And the odds are heavier on the first two. Spiller is being misused and that is not to his fault, but much like Bradham, Graham, and Lee Smith - these are players not making the most of their opportunity.

 

OK that was longer then I thought

[BADOLBILZ]

I've noticed CJ has become something of a whipping boy of late. The more I watch the more I disagree with his detractors. That's not to say he doesn't have his shortcomings or that he hasn't missed some holes, but what he does well he does better than anyone the the NFL. He runs the plays that are called and often the play is dead before he even touches the ball. On a lot of his plays there is an unblocked defender in the backfield preventing any cutbacks and the blocking in front of him breaks down leaving him nowhere to run. But when he gets a little crease he cuts and weaves and turns nothing into something like no one since Barry Sanders.

 

Despite sub-par blocking, nagging injuries, and having a lot of impressive runs called back this year, he's still put up respectable yardage and is averaging 4.6 ypc, which may not be earth shattering, but it's not too shabby either. The man deserves more respect than he gets from the fans IMO.

 

He is what his record says he is.......player who can make great plays but is not a great player.

 

i can't speak to his issues with getting winded......it appears that is the case.......but that is not why he can't stay on the field. He has had a lot of nagging injuries but he is a 200 pound RB, not a workhorse.

 

His problems aren't physical, he is just a very unintelligent football player.

 

VERY.

 

This causes him to make a lot of mistakes.

 

What people often confuse with instinctively hitting the hole is usually a product of a RB knowing what the defense is trying to do and understanding how the line is trying to block it. That back usually knows where that hole is likely to be at the snap.

 

Not so much with CJ.

 

And obviously, he is terrible in blitz protection. Again, he doesn't understand what the defense is doing. Everything is read and react with him.

 

The lack of intelligence hurts him in the pass receiving game as well. He doesn't know how to take advantage of the defense that is called.

 

The ability to do all of these things are what makes running backs "dynamic". Not the ability to run past your blocking and pick up 60 yards on one play every couple games.

 

I am sorry that the mother hens on this board get offended at my critique's of his problem but he is what he is. When he scored a 6 on his wonderlic exam that should have raised a red flag.

[HeHateMe]

I would say he is an outstanding athlete that happens to play football.

 

He has poor vision, isn't a good blocker, tries to bounce everything outside, and refuses to take the yards that are there since he avoids contact whenever he can. He does however make some big plays that can turn the game for the team.

 

Behind a dominant O-line, he can put up some great numbers. Behind a mediocre to bad line, you have this year's Spiller. And yes I know he is playing through injury but that shouldn't affect his vision/decision making.

[dave mcbride]

I am sorry that the mother hens on this board get offended at my critique's of his problem but he is what he is. When he scored a 6 on his wonderlic exam that should have raised a red flag.

 

CJ got a 10 on the Wonderlic, actually. Just clarifying the record.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1103/nfl-memorable-wonderlic-scores/content.14.html

[BADOLBILZ]

CJ got a 10 on the Wonderlic, actually. Just clarifying the record.

 

http://sportsillustr...content.14.html

 

You get 4 points for signing your name. I was cherry picking.

[Gugny]

Is the wonderlic really important to any position outside of QB?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Is the wonderlic really important to any position outside of QB?

 

Analytics Director

[Rob's House]

When talking about whether the problem is Spiller or how he's being used I'm reminded of Reggie Bush going from the Saints to the Dolphins and suddenly finding success, while Sproles moved from SD to NO and suddenly found success. Both had made some plays before, but it wasn't until they found a change of scenery that suited them did either fulfill their potential.

[qblax16]

Appreciate this topic, and agree. He's still our best offensive player. Only negative IMO is injury pron.

[Dragonborn10]

I think we can sum up this thread

 

1. Spiller is great athlete

2. Not living up to his draft position

3. Liability on third down passing situation

4. Is an asset and not really what the Bills need to worry about

5. Safe to say frustrating to all of us. We want AP or McCoy - hell even Jamaal Charles - we've got a slightly better running but significanlty worse pass recieving version of Reggie Bush

 

Barring a ridiculous training camp hold-out there is really nothing to do but bring him back next year hopefully with a new LG and maybe a new RT.

[Prickly Pete]

I agree CJ has talent and speed, but anyone who has seen McCoy play would not confuse him with CJ Spiller--ditto AP.

 

McCoy has a whopping 62 1st downs on 269 carries--that's a first down roughly every 4 carries. Same for AP. Spiller has just 20 1st downs on 162 carries for 1 in 8. His stat line is filled with gians of negative, 1 or 2 yards with occasional spikes of long runs. Freddie is far more productive in terms of 1st downs (not even close), TDs and 0 fumbles. He's our best back hands down at this point in the season.

 

I think McCoy is better, but McCoy plays in a spread offense. When CJ played in a spread, he was pretty good.

[BADOLBILZ]

Is the wonderlic really important to any position outside of QB?

 

I didn't used to think so but then I got to watch CJ Spiller do his thing for 4 seasons in Buffalo. His legs giveth.....his brain taketh away.

[boyst]

 

 

I didn't used to think so but then I got to watch CJ Spiller do his thing for 4 seasons in Buffalo. His legs giveth.....his brain taketh away.

Nix 23:7

[Bill from NYC]

I didn't used to think so but then I got to watch CJ Spiller do his thing for 4 seasons in Buffalo. His legs giveth.....his brain taketh away.

 

 

Travis Henry sold me on the fact that a brain is a good thing for a RB. Travis as I recall would run to the wrong side on many plays.

[Boatdrinks]

Is the wonderlic really important to any position outside of QB?

The wonderlic is viewed by NFL teams as important for OL and QB. Any other position it's not critical. Especially RB. Some are trying to make it seem as though CJ's flaws are a result of lacking intelligence. This is nonsense. As Chuck Dickerson once said "you can't be too dumb to play football..it's NOT possible". A RB simply needs to run to where the hole IS, not where it is supposed to be. The concept of what the OL is trying to do means squat. Plays are often not blocked just as they are drawn up. Some guys will miss their block, others may not. That is where the instinct factor comes in. "Run to daylight". His pass pro troubles are not a lack of intelligence either. CJ is just not a physical guy. This shows up in everything he is aked to do. He always will try to bounce a play outside and outrun people as opposed to taking what is there and being physical after contact, a la Fred Jackson. The lack of toughness shows up in an unwillingness to be physical when doing the dirty work, AKA blocking.He is an elite athlete that doesn't like contact playing the most extreme contact sport of the big 4. I don't think W. McGahee was ever confused with an MIT graduate, but was a heck of a blocker and an instinctive physical runner. Intelligence and understanding concepts is overrated at the RB position, it's actually very easy for a rookie to come in and contribute at that position right away as it is purely instinct and toughness.

[Grondre Reed]

6.0 yards per carry is very special and unique for any RB. Spiller hit that mark in 2012 with 1244 yards

 

Only one other RB hit 6.0 in 2012, and that was Adrian Peterson, no RB in 2013, no RB in 2011. Jamaal Charles 6.4 in 2010, no RB 09, 08, Jerious Norwood in 07 with only 103 carries tho, 613 yards. no RB 06, no RB 05, no RB 04, no RB 03, no RB 02.

 

 

I happen to think that most of the offensive coaches for the Bills over the last 14 years have been just as bad as the O line has been. No other O linemen besides Ruben Brown 1996-2003, and Jason Peters 2007-2008 have made the pro bowl. Marv levy thought enough of the guard position to draft Ruben Brown in the 1st round (14th overall) in 1995. The Bills find and develop great talent in Peters and then let him leave.

 

Mike Mularkey wanted Drew Bledsoe to change his style of play rather then build a better O line. Mularkey told Willis McGahee he wasn't hitting the crease quickly enough so the Bills traded him away, and that was at the end of 2006. McGahee made the pro bowl with both the Ravens and Broncos, and he is still in the league today with Cleveland.

 

Both Jauron & Gailey told Marshawn Lynch he wasn't hitting the hole quickly enough so that among other reasons he was traded to Seattle. Three years with the Seahawks and 1000+ yards every year, 10+ TD's every year for 3 years.

 

Nathaniel Hackett hasn't shown that he really knows how to utilize Spiller to his utmost ability. Along with some really bad players on that O line that aren't helping the situation.

 

regarding the bledsoe era...correct me if im wrong...

 

didn't we draft mike williams #4 overall...and sign dockery and another veteran linemen to huge contracts?

 

i guess my point is i am pretty sure we had the biggest o-line in the league...paid a ton of money for it and tried to put a literal wall in front of the man with stone feet.

 

no need to correct me...im not wrong..except for maybe the mike williams part.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Grondre Reed

[Mr. WEO]

The wonderlic is viewed by NFL teams as important for OL and QB. Any other position it's not critical. Especially RB. Some are trying to make it seem as though CJ's flaws are a result of lacking intelligence. This is nonsense. As Chuck Dickerson once said "you can't be too dumb to play football..it's NOT possible". A RB simply needs to run to where the hole IS, not where it is supposed to be. The concept of what the OL is trying to do means squat. Plays are often not blocked just as they are drawn up. Some guys will miss their block, others may not. That is where the instinct factor comes in. "Run to daylight". His pass pro troubles are not a lack of intelligence either. CJ is just not a physical guy. This shows up in everything he is aked to do. He always will try to bounce a play outside and outrun people as opposed to taking what is there and being physical after contact, a la Fred Jackson. The lack of toughness shows up in an unwillingness to be physical when doing the dirty work, AKA blocking.He is an elite athlete that doesn't like contact playing the most extreme contact sport of the big 4. I don't think W. McGahee was ever confused with an MIT graduate, but was a heck of a blocker and an instinctive physical runner. Intelligence and understanding concepts is overrated at the RB position, it's actually very easy for a rookie to come in and contribute at that position right away as it is purely instinct and toughness.

 

I think this is the best answer so far. When you draft a guy high in the first round at RB, he better be a guy who can do it all, not some platooning sub-specialist. SPiller was never in his football career a workhorse. He's just not physically able to take a beating. In addition to situational rushing, he should be returning punts to get the most value out of his skill set.

[thewildrabbit]

regarding the bledsoe era...correct me if im wrong...

 

didn't we draft mike williams #4 overall...and sign dockery and another veteran linemen to huge contracts?

 

i guess my point is i am pretty sure we had the biggest o-line in the league...paid a ton of money for it and tried to put a literal wall in front of the man with stone feet.

 

no need to correct me...im not wrong..except for maybe the mike williams part.

Bledose era, yea they did indeed draft Mike D Williams in the 1st round #4 overall in 2002. That was under GM Tom Donahoe, who was fired in 2005 .

 

Then under Marv Levy as GM in 2007 OG Derrick Dockery & RT Langston Walker were brought in as free agents to upgrade the O line. Even with those two and all pro LT Jason Peters it still wasn't a very good line simply because the centers were so bad. Melvin Fowler, Duke Preston, Geoff Hangarter. Then those over priced players created problems because they were being paid so much more then the best linemen in Peters, causing him to be disgruntled. That era was a clusterfluk of bad decisions.

 

 

anyway, should the Bills upgrade the OG's in this next draft or free agency I can see the RB's & QB playing better next season, and actually winning more then 6 games.

[Bill from NYC]

Bledose era, yea they did indeed draft Mike D Williams in the 1st round #4 overall in 2002. That was under GM Tom Donahoe, who was fired in 2005 .

 

Then under Marv Levy as GM in 2007 OG Derrick Dockery & RT Langston Walker were brought in as free agents to upgrade the O line. Even with those two and all pro LT Jason Peters it still wasn't a very good line simply because the centers were so bad.

 

Make no mistake FTL, Dockery and Walker were both painfully bad as well. Walker couldn't get out of his stance and seemed to be in poor condition. Pears blows him away. Dockery got the big bucks and put zero effort into his game. He was never any good after the big contract.

In those days Ralph wanted running backs to sell tickets (this lasted as long as to the year Spiller was drafted) and Marv wanted defensive backs. The 2006 draft tells us everything we need to know about how much the Levy/Jauron Era set back this franchise.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Bill from NYC

[Passepartout]

He is really great when used. Just really wished that the team did not always under use him. As he is a great asset. But it is the OL that needs to be getting on the ball to help him out!