C.Biscuit97 Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Two separate coaching staffs have been blamed for not knowing how to use Spiller. It would seem that it's not the coaches, but rather the player after nearly 4 complete seasons in the NFL. I truly don't believe Spiller understands the pro game as much as he should in his fourth season. When you spend the 9th overall pick on a RB, it had been be a dynamic player. Spiller is not dynamic, but of course there's always another reason why he's not succeeding. Good point. 1,703 yards while averaging 6 ypc and 10.7 yards per catch as a rb is the definition of not dynamic. Spiller has played hurt all season. He averages 5.2 ypc for his career. I will say my biggest criticism of Hackett is not using more screens and getting Spiller into space more. Gailey had a pimp screen game. Hackett needs to learn it.
papazoid Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 PRO: Spiller is the least of our problems. he is under team control for 2 more seasons at $4 mil /yr. he is worth every penny. CON: gets winded too often, goes down easily on first contact, lacks intelligence to block and read pass protection which limits using him on 3rd downs. RUMOR: is a closet cigarette smoker
Dorkington Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Good point. 1,703 yards while averaging 6 ypc and 10.7 yards per catch as a rb is the definition of not dynamic. Spiller has played hurt all season. He averages 5.2 ypc for his career. I will say my biggest criticism of Hackett is not using more screens and getting Spiller into space more. Gailey had a pimp screen game. Hackett needs to learn it. I was watching some highlights today of 2011 and 2012, and some of the offensive schemes were pretty nice. Then you watch our current offense, and it just seems so broken... yet still somehow produces. O.o
Flip Johnson Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Spiller is a high end talent that never complains and has played hurt all season. As for the "Hackett needs to learn from Gailey's scheme" crowd, it's hard to overstate how ridiculous that is. Gailey tailored an offense to Fitzpatrick's strengths - short throws and quick decision making. The Bills played most of 2012 in a spread offense and a healthy Spiller was lethal in that context (it also helped to have Levitre). I don't think any reasonable person thinks that E.J. should be operating primarily in 4 or 5 WR sets. More power sets (and the need for additional pass blocking) has made Hackett need to rely on FJ more. As E.J. progresses in 2014 I believe we'll see a correlation in Spiller's production.
Leelee Phoenix Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 CJ is a special athlete. I don't think he is a good NFL running back. He doesn't run good pass routes. He is awful in pass protection. He doesn't see the holes and cut back. He doesn't even break that many tackles. But if he gets the right crease he can be gone. I agree with the flaws you mentioned, but that doesn't mean CJ can't be a valuable player. While Gailey/Nix showed terrible understanding of CJ's positional value drafting him 9th, they knew from the 1st day how to use him. Split him at WR occasionally, do whatever to get him in open field. I remember Gailey talking about that the day CJ was drafted, and was so pissed at this stupid team. Many people demanded that CJ be used as a "workhorse" back which he absolutely isn't, no matter how gaudy his YPC is. At Clemson, he was the same with taking himself off the field constantly, and rarely ran between the tackles. I don't know what the deal with his stamina is. And now with meathead coaches who stress "accountability", "obey me or you're gone (which I'll let the local PR guy say)" authoritarians, CJ is stuck as your normal RB that doesn't even get many screens. But, boy is he gonna work hard!
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Spiller is an incredible athlete.... and a great kid from all accounts of those who I know that were acquainted with him at Clemson. His inconsistency is his achilles in professional football. Watched him miss blitz pick up after blitz pick up and he won't convert 3rd and short for you. They don't seem comfortable with him running routes, and he's sort of an all or nothing guy. I like him but, but I'd take a "move the chains" guy over him and the bills just might too after next year.
BillsVet Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Good point. 1,703 yards while averaging 6 ypc and 10.7 yards per catch as a rb is the definition of not dynamic. Spiller has played hurt all season. He averages 5.2 ypc for his career. I will say my biggest criticism of Hackett is not using more screens and getting Spiller into space more. Gailey had a pimp screen game. Hackett needs to learn it. As has been said many times here, stats don't tell the whole story. Someone posted the ratio of how many runs he's had that resulted in first downs. And so, I ask the question: Is it better to get 5 yards on 1st and 10 or 3 yards on 3rd and 3? That's the operative question which cannot be answered with stats, like you so often cite. CJ isn't the value some made him out to be, but rather is the flash-point for fans to defend all things Bills. It's actually OK to criticize the team and players from time to time. After all, the latest rebuild appears to be heading to year 4 of 10+ losses. Shouldn't it be acceptable by now for even the hardiest of homers to do this?
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 As has been said many times here, stats don't tell the whole story. Someone posted the ratio of how many runs he's had that resulted in first downs. And so, I ask the question: Is it better to get 5 yards on 1st and 10 or 3 yards on 3rd and 3? That's the operative question which cannot be answered with stats, like you so often cite. CJ isn't the value some made him out to be, but rather is the flash-point for fans to defend all things Bills. It's actually OK to criticize the team and players from time to time. After all, the latest rebuild appears to be heading to year 4 of 10+ losses. Shouldn't it be acceptable by now for even the hardiest of homers to do this? I give you credit. You somehow can hate on a guy who gain 6 ypc while gaining over 1,200 yards. you are the hater of the year. Congrats!
BillsVet Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 I give you credit. You somehow can hate on a guy who gain 6 ypc while gaining over 1,200 yards. you are the hater of the year. Congrats! May God bless you and yours during this Christmas season.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 I agree with the flaws you mentioned, but that doesn't mean CJ can't be a valuable player. While Gailey/Nix showed terrible understanding of CJ's positional value drafting him 9th, they knew from the 1st day how to use him. Split him at WR occasionally, do whatever to get him in open field. I remember Gailey talking about that the day CJ was drafted, and was so pissed at this stupid team. Many people demanded that CJ be used as a "workhorse" back which he absolutely isn't, no matter how gaudy his YPC is. At Clemson, he was the same with taking himself off the field constantly, and rarely ran between the tackles. I don't know what the deal with his stamina is. And now with meathead coaches who stress "accountability", "obey me or you're gone (which I'll let the local PR guy say)" authoritarians, CJ is stuck as your normal RB that doesn't even get many screens. But, boy is he gonna work hard! Did Morrone kick your dog or something? Holding yourself 'accountable' to your teammates and holding them accountable to you is a bad message? Accountability is a cornerstone of top performing organizations.... Oh and sports teams too. This board has been unanimously looking for accountability since inception. It's just a whole lot of disagreement on who to hold accountable for what...
Big Gun Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Spiller is an incredible athlete.... and a great kid from all accounts of those who I know that were acquainted with him at Clemson. His inconsistency is his achilles in professional football. Watched him miss blitz pick up after blitz pick up and he won't convert 3rd and short for you. They don't seem comfortable with him running routes, and he's sort of an all or nothing guy. I like him but, but I'd take a "move the chains" guy over him and the bills just might too after next year. Keep an eye on this kid Storm Johnson from UCF. He was a transfer from The "U". 6'1 215lbs squats 600+, seems to have pretty good speed and instincts, pile mover. Hopefully Buffalo is interested.
BackInDaDay Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 an offense with multiple threats can beat you by formation. opposing DCs have to compromise their ability to defend every option the formation gives the QB. they'll attempt to disguise where they've compromised their defense, in order to influence the QB away from the weakness. if the OC has a feel how the DC will try to accomplish this, he can coach his guys up to confirm and exploit the expected look. that said, i'm guessing DCs hate preparing for CJ in the slot - regardless of how often they've seen him used there. his quickness out of a free release demands attention. he's a scary match-up on a FS - let alone a LB. how do you contain him? what do you give up? how do you disguise what you've given up? like others here, i have to wonder what his issues are. even with the sprain, he's such a game-breaker - i would think the coaches would have to be careful not to overuse him.
John from Riverside Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 As has been said many times here, stats don't tell the whole story. Someone posted the ratio of how many runs he's had that resulted in first downs. And so, I ask the question: Is it better to get 5 yards on 1st and 10 or 3 yards on 3rd and 3? That's the operative question which cannot be answered with stats, like you so often cite. CJ isn't the value some made him out to be, but rather is the flash-point for fans to defend all things Bills. It's actually OK to criticize the team and players from time to time. After all, the latest rebuild appears to be heading to year 4 of 10+ losses. Shouldn't it be acceptable by now for even the hardiest of homers to do this? Criticizing seems to be all you do......
T master Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) I think Spiller has been used poorly this year. Those read option plays have been disastrous, and yet we still run them. Did everyone notice yesterday that on that one time when we ran the read option and Manuel kept the ball, the entire Jaguars defense was fooled? I sure as hell was fooled too. It looked like Manuel could have gotten a lot more yardage on that play. If they want to see how to use CJ they need to watch Kansas City & how they use Charles & see how a successful coach use there great players !! DOH ! Learning curve !! Edited December 17, 2013 by T master
Mr. WEO Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 I give you credit. You somehow can hate on a guy who gain 6 ypc while gaining over 1,200 yards. you are the hater of the year. Congrats! That was last year... Anyway, Billsvet was referencing stats I posted regarding 1st downs. Spiller is not a move the chains guy (not this year anyway). If they want to see how to use CJ they need to watch Kansas City & how they use Charles & see how a successful coach use there great players !! DOH ! Learning curve !! Charles had no learning curve. He had incredible numbers under the Romeo Crennel regime also.
BillsVet Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Criticizing seems to be all you do...... They'll most likely lose 10 or more games for the 5th straight season. Would you prefer I wait longer?
John from Riverside Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 They'll most likely lose 10 or more games for the 5th straight season. Would you prefer I wait longer? I would prefer "fans" who do nothing but B word and seem to take pleasure in the losing of this team to move on........I mean...why remain the fan of a team if you have no hope?
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) May God bless you and yours during this Christmas season. Same to you and yours. If you eliminate all his 20+ yardage runs, Spiller sucks. I bet he'd be out of the league if cut him. Let NE have him. Edited December 17, 2013 by C.Biscuit97
BillsVet Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Same to you and yours. Well, forgiveness is the best medicine.
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