OldTimer1960 Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 If Thad starts AND gets a win @ NE that is something other than an epic display of defense ( Brady has under 200 yards passing) or we get,say 3 KO returns for touchdowns, by all means he will have earned the starting job. I also think this is incredibly unlikely to happen. But if you want to qualify TL's wins and losses, you'd have to do the same for EJM. (the fumbled passes vs ATL, got injured @ CLE and the Offense was inefective without him, etc. TL had the ball in overtime vs CIN and lost. So you can always spin it. All things being equal, EJM will be the starter due to his draft status and upside. That's how it works in the NFL. It doesn't mean EJM will ultimately succeed, just that the investment means he will get every chance to prove he cannot do the job before the Bills would move on. An UDFA or middle round pick would have to be obviously superior ( like a Wilson or Brady) to win the job. That's just how it works. Draft status is just like a prestigious degree in the business world. You're going to get the benefit of the doubt. Can we get beyond this? Yes, we all love that Thad Lewis is an underdog and that he ISN'T the starter. However, I strongly suspect that since he was a very late draft pick and has kicked around the league for 3 years since then, that he must be limited in some way. Yes, after 3 years in the league, he has played reasonably in spot duty. I agree that he has a live arm and is probably pretty bright, having gone to Duke. Still, he hasn't done enough to look like "THE ANSWER" and if the coaches prefer Manuel to him - I think we should acknowledge that MAYBE they (and previous coaching staffs including the Vikes who traded him for a 7th round pick) MIGHT know something. EJ Manuel had a good college resume, great physical size and skills and is reportedly bright and a "student of the game". If the coaches feel that he has a lot more upside than Thad Lewis, then" 1. that is a good thing 2. we should appreciate that they see practice every day I don't believe in the "conspiracy theory" where the coaches don't want Thad to succeed because it might make them look stupid for taking Manuel. This is a lame theory - heck if coaches behaved this way, Tom Brady would still be a backup and Russell Wilson would be sitting behind Matt Flynn.
YoloinOhio Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 I love the talk of Thad beating the Pats means he's some sort of savior... Yet Fitz beat the Pats and he was run out of town. So confused. But if EJ does it, it will be a fluke and they need to draft a QB in the 1st rd and see if he can do it too before investing any more time in his development
Boatdrinks Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 I love the talk of Thad beating the Pats means he's some sort of savior... Yet Fitz beat the Pats and he was run out of town. So confused. Fitz's win over the Pats, even though it was at home, went a long way towards getting him his new contract. He just proved he wasn't the answer in enough games after that to make the Bills move on.
Rob's House Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 If Thad starts AND gets a win @ NE that is something other than an epic display of defense ( Brady has under 200 yards passing) or we get,say 3 KO returns for touchdowns, by all means he will have earned the starting job. I also think this is incredibly unlikely to happen. But if you want to qualify TL's wins and losses, you'd have to do the same for EJM. (the fumbled passes vs ATL, got injured @ CLE and the Offense was inefective without him, etc. TL had the ball in overtime vs CIN and lost. So you can always spin it. All things being equal, EJM will be the starter due to his draft status and upside. That's how it works in the NFL. It doesn't mean EJM will ultimately succeed, just that the investment means he will get every chance to prove he cannot do the job before the Bills would move on. An UDFA or middle round pick would have to be obviously superior ( like a Wilson or Brady) to win the job. That's just how it works. Draft status is just like a prestigious degree in the business world. You're going to get the benefit of the doubt. I have a problem with how this gets treated. It's not as if bad luck just happened to strike. He made a bad decision that got him injured. Giving him a pass on that is no different from giving him a pass on an INT IMNSHO.
QCity Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 I love the talk of Thad beating the Pats means he's some sort of savior... Yet Fitz beat the Pats and he was run out of town. So confused. Fitz needed 5 INTs off Brady to beat the Pats, which means that it will never, ever, ever happen again for Fitz. That was his Megamillions win. He cashed in on our D and went right back to being Fitz.
NewEra Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Where did I say EJ has proven anything? But I know what Thad is for sure...A decent backup QB at best. While EJ has quite a bit to prove, he certainly has the necessary mental and physical makeup to be a top flight QB. Will he develop into one? Nobody knows at this juncture. FYI, you don't calculate being more prone to sacks by the game...It's per drop back....Thad is more sack and turnover prone as I stated before. His ball security is atrocious. In both of "Thad's" wins vs the Dolphins, he was less than stellar to be kind. My bad, I should've been more specific. I wasn't pointing at you regarding the bolded statement. It was a general statement. But you stated, in response to another poster saying that "Thad has performed just about the same as Ej in his starts", that "He just hasn't. Thad is much more prone to turnovers (both interceptions and fumbles) and takes many more sacks". EJs sack % is 8.4. That's is 9.9. Is it more? Sure. Is it much more? Eh. That's like saying Thad is much more accurate that Ej. Maybe I'm nitpicking, but watching Thad play and watching EJ play I agree with the guy that said Thad has performed just about the same as Ej. Keep in mind, Thad's start vs Miami this week, he was without SJ and woods and Goodwin for most of the game. He also played against a good Cinci D, a good saints D. Not saying Thad is great and Ej sucks, but they have played similarly. Thad also seems more eager to make a play. Ej seems more eager to not make a mistake. Hence more turnovers. There's good and bad with both mentalities. As of now, neither QBs are good. Similar results.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 I don't get how marrone could say he's 110 percent and now we are at wait and see. Marrone has been weird with reporting injuries all year since that pre-season spat with the media.
K-9 Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) Ironically, Marrone said the EXACT same thing about EJ leading up to game one against the Pats*. Half the football world was looking forward to Jeff Tuel being the first UDFA QB to start the season at QB! GO BILLS!!! Edited December 24, 2013 by K-9
The Big Cat Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 May be having two inexperienced QB's with identically mediocre stats is actually the ringing endorsement for Hackett so many refuse to acknowledge.
Maury Ballstein Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Fitz needed 5 INTs off Brady to beat the Pats, which means that it will never, ever, ever happen again for Fitz. That was his Megamillions win. He cashed in on our D and went right back to being Fitz. Drayton Florence was the moneyball !
rockpile Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 I agree. Personally, I am disappointed in many areas of his play and his lack of durability...even considering a rookie curve in that evaluation. At this point, I see him as having a 1 in 4 chance of becoming the Bills answer at QB but he IS the top propsect on the roster. So it's a toss-up whether you play him and hope he has a *lights on* game in the clutch versus our main rival/greatest obstacle to success...........or whether you sit him and not risk an RGIII type injury as a result of instability in the knee that might prevent him from competing for the job in the spring/summer. A 25% confidence vote is good, coming from you "Badold", and wtf is a propsect. Merry Christmas!!
K D Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 If Thad plays well and we win... QB CONTROVERSY!!!!
BADOLBILZ Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) A 25% confidence vote is good, coming from you "Badold", and wtf is a propsect. Merry Christmas!! The success rate for first round pick QB's is actually higher than 33%.....so I'd put him at less than average at this point. That is certainly below the threshold where I worry more about getting the kid snaps than I do about getting the kid competition. The next first round QB pick might actually come in with a cleaner slate, IMO. But EJ would have the advantage of experience in the competition. As for getting the young QB snaps...........the one thing that really impressed me this preseason was how well prepared Hackett had both Manuel and Tuel to run that no-huddle offense. That wouldn't have been possible with most Bills coaching staffs of the past. When you have good coaching.....you don't need as many snaps to learn. I am not sure Marrone can handle being a head coach, but aside from his lousy ST coach I think the assistants as a whole are good football coaches......which is a change for a first year Bills staff. A propsect is another word for a marginal prospect. Edited December 24, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ
Bufcomments Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 How can you judge E.J. if he is not fully healthy?? I say if he is not fully mobile shut him down. Besides I want to see Thad play against the Pats. I think if he wins the game we have a good problem heading into next season. The Bills IMO are solid QB play away from the playoffs. I don't care who the QB is either.
Jim in Anchorage Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) How old are you ? Many of us care a great deal that we beat the Dolphins. "a middlin team".............jeez . +1 there. I was at the 1980 goal post game and still get a huge charge out of seeing Buffalo beat Miami. Edited December 24, 2013 by Jim in Anchorage
reddogblitz Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 I hope EJ doesn't play because I think Thaddeus give us the best chance to win. He can carry the momentum and mojo from the Fish win. It seems the team plays more fired up and intense football with Thaddeus in. I want to win Sunday. I hope Thaddeus is man under. One more game ain't gonna make that big of a difference in EJ's development. Ride the hot hand Doug. That's what you told us you were going to do.
Boolay Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 I disagree I think that he has shown plenty for a rookie QB......people need to temper their expectations of rookie QBs Wilson, Kapernick, RGIII, Luck It's not 1975 anymore so take the blinkers off. QB's drafted in first round no longer get 3 years to get it.
YoloinOhio Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Maybe Marrone just doesn't want to tip his hat to the Pats* yet on who the starter will be. No reason to not make them prepare for both QBs.
YoloinOhio Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Wilson, Kapernick, RGIII, Luck It's not 1975 anymore so take the blinkers off. QB's drafted in first round no longer get 3 years to get it. But they do get more than one. And taking one year of rookies over the past 38 (as you stated) to show the new standard is like saying any QB who doesn't throw at least 51 TDs in a season isn't worth being a franchise QB just because that took place this year. It was not a normal rookie class last year. It doesn't mean every rookie class after 2012 is going to be like that or a bust. Also, Kaepernick was not a rookie last year. Yes, it was his first year starting, but he had 2 training camps and a whole season on practice and observation in the system before he did so. Add to that EJ was not the #1 or #2 overall draft pick, which as we all know with QBs is a far cry from being the #16 overall pick when it comes to a QB. Wilson is a great story. Doesn't mean his story dictates the future for everyone who follows. That is what makes it so great.
Boolay Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 But they do get more than one. And taking one year of rookies over the past 38 (as you stated) to show the new standard is like saying any QB who doesn't throw at least 51 TDs in a season isn't worth being a franchise QB just because that took place this year. It was not a normal rookie class last year. It doesn't mean every rookie class after 2012 is going to be like that or a bust. Also, Kaepernick was not a rookie last year. Yes, it was his first year starting, but he had 2 training camps and a whole season on practice and observation in the system before he did so. Add to that EJ was not the #1 or #2 overall draft pick, which as we all know with QBs is a far cry from being the #16 overall pick when it comes to a QB. Wilson is a great story. Doesn't mean his story dictates the future for everyone who follows. That is what makes it so great. The Bills are in a bind this year because of the epic QB class available. They reached last year on a QB in the first round. If they stick with him they may miss the best QB class in 25 years. I hear a whole lot of excuses about EJ and have seen few results.
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