Why is Graham used more than Goodwin?

[LB3]

 

 

Check the injury reports champ. He has had a variety of injuries. Seems to me that TJ Graham is never injured. Safe to assume TJ is practicing and earning his snaps all week. You can't make the club in the tub.

 

Fair enough. Kyle is on the injury report every week too but I get ya.

 

My belief is that he is healthy enough to play. He's returning kicks every game. If he was really hurt I don't think they'd have him do that. TJ might have earned his play more in practice but I just think Goodwin can do more. JMO

Edited December 17, 2013 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall

[BADOLBILZ]

Fair enough. Kyle is on the injury report every week too but I get ya.

 

My belief is that he is healthy enough to play. He's returning kicks every game. If he was really hurt I don't think they'd have him do that. TJ might have earned his play more in practice but I just think Goodwin can do more. JMO

 

Goodwin clearly has more upside, he is a better athlete, he tracks the ball better and he is a good step faster. I think his hands are better from the little we have seen. TJ had more fumbles than TD's at NC State. He seemed like a non-prospect. But in the case of Goodwin, when you are still a nobody you gotta' practice. He's still a nobody. Kyle Williams is an Pro Bowl DT.

[John from Riverside]

Goodwin clearly has more upside, he is a better athlete, he tracks the ball better and he is a good step faster. I think his hands are better from the little we have seen. TJ had more fumbles than TD's at NC State. He seemed like a non-prospect. But in the case of Goodwin, when you are still a nobody you gotta' practice. He's still a nobody. Kyle Williams is an Pro Bowl DT.

 

Bado is right here........Goodwin is clearly better.....Graham has somehow managed to stay healthy (probably because he is never thrown the ball).....

 

That might be the status this year.....I firmly believe this coaching staff knows whats going on.....and TJ is seeing his last days as a Bill

[thewildrabbit]

Graham is ranked 158th, 14 games, 46 targets, 18 receptions for 272 yards and one TD.

 

Graham played 24 snaps out of the Bills 76 snaps, and for the 3rd straight game he failed to catch a pass. He wasn't even targeted once the last 3 games.....2 TD's in 29 games.

 

 

Good thing Buddy Nix traded up to draft that 7th round WR in the 3rd round.

Edited December 17, 2013 by FeartheLosing

[BuffOrange]

Graham gets open and has a good blocking game. He had several key blocks yesterday. This board just likes to hate on him

 

Yep just like we hated Josh Reed unfairly. Guys who can't play tend to get hate.

Edited December 17, 2013 by BuffOrange

[mountainwampus]

Jax game, first drive, 3rd and 9. Stevie runs a 10 yard curl. TJ is supposed to, too, but runs 15-20 yards, then slowly curls back late. By the time he comes back, the ball is bouncing on the turf near the 1st down marker. This is stuff he should have learned in High School. He is a football moron with a track & field skill set. He does this stuff almost every week. The stat sheet says he hasn't been targeted in the last 3 games but that's not true. He is just so far away from where the routes are supposed to be that it doesn't count as a target. 2 of his targets last week were INTs. Another target vs Jax was that pass interference where TJ acted as if he was held even though he wasn't. His run blocking is mediocre at best. I haven't seen him make a key block all season.

 

Also, go back to the Bucs game and watch 2nd quarter (4:59) 3rd & 6. TJ at bottom of 3 WR bunch. He does a short crossing pattern and finds himself wide open, only he doesn't look at EJ, he looks at the LB in the middle of the field, who's on his way over, but not there yet. Meanwhile, EJ is staring TJ down but he is clearly not interested in catching passes on crossing routes. Not sure how this doesn't register as a target. Maybe because he made no attempt to catch the ball.

Edited December 17, 2013 by mountainwampus

[T master]

The Bills are not effectively using Goodwin, as they continue to throw an occasional deep pass to him every game. In the last Jets game (where SJ & Woods were out), Goodwin had his best receiving game of the year (and IMO, the Bills had one of the best offensive outputs of the season), as he was catching passes all over the field. So far, Graham has proven to be very inconsistent as he has dropped numerous passes, and does not get the same consistent separation as Goodwin does. At this point, I would rather see Woods and Goodwin as the Bills top 2 WR's. I feel Manuel has more chemistry throwing to those 2 than he does with SJ and Graham.

 

It's the experienced coaching staff that we have that makes those kind of calls isn't it ?

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Goodwin clearly has more upside, he is a better athlete, he tracks the ball better and he is a good step faster. I think his hands are better from the little we have seen. TJ had more fumbles than TD's at NC State. He seemed like a non-prospect. But in the case of Goodwin, when you are still a nobody you gotta' practice. He's still a nobody. Kyle Williams is an Pro Bowl DT.

 

Exactly, and Graham was a project when he was drafted anyways. +1.

 

jboyst62, I have seen enough of this bum given chance after chance and blowing all but one. EJ was throwing to him, but was getting VERY little. Now, he barely looks his direction and for good reason. I went to NCSU, and even I have had enough of this guy taking up a roster spot. Marrone has to know that he's not going to play a down for the Bills in 2014, and if he doesn't then maybe we have the wrong HC.

[Dibs]

Another question I would like to ask is:

 

Why Is T.J. Graham starting over Robert Woods?

 

According to all of the depth charts I have seen, he isn't. Woods is the starting #2WR(started 12 games)......Graham is the starting #3WR(started 4 games).

[3rdand12]

Graham and Goodwin are not of the same cut . I would think that is now showing . Goodwin was not a redundant "open up the top" pick.

He IS the fly route and then some. Bills should keep him healthy and let Graham do the dirt until we replace him in 2014 .

But he is fast i hear. That fellow Graham .

Woods is going to be the guy that Manuel trusts till season end .

[thewildrabbit]

 

According to all of the depth charts I have seen, he isn't. Woods is the starting #2WR(started 12 games)......Graham is the starting #3WR(started 4 games).

On the Bills website Graham is still listed as the #2 WR opposite Stevie http://www.buffalobills.com/team/depth-chart.html

 

However, in Rotoworld

 

"The Bills' No. 4 receiver behind Stevie Johnson, Robert Woods, and rookie Marquise Goodwin, Graham is a complete non-factor in fantasy football. Dec 8 - 5:19 PM" http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7542/tj-graham

 

So yea, i have no idea why he even sees the field on Sundays.

[folz]

With one argument about Graham being "he drops passes" vs. "He's open but not getting the ball," I decided to

look at receptions against targets for each receiver on the team:

 

T. J. Graham 18 (recs) 46 (targets) = 39% (success)

M. Goodwin 16 30 = 53%

S. Johnson 52 100 = 52%

R. Woods 36 75 = 48%

 

This season T.J. is only completing 39% of the plays thrown to him while the other 3 are all hovering around 50%

Of course, this doesn't take into account the QB's throw, but over enough throws, you would think each receiver gets his share

of good and bad throws.

 

And again to compare Graham and Goodwin, T.J. with 16 more targets has exactly 2 recs and 11 yards more than Goodwin (and yet 2 fewer TDs).

 

 

Goodwin should be getting more time and targets than Graham going forward and I think we'll start seeing that these last two games

and on into next year.

 

And Marquise can fly btw (just look at my avatar).

Edited December 18, 2013 by folz

[Lawren87]

Graham is a burner. In each of his first two year's the Bills have had trouble throwing the deep ball. Graham had his most success with Thad, who probably has been the Bills QB, as far as throwing the deep ball.

[Boludo]

TJ Graham was graded out as the literal WORST wide receiver in the ENTIRE NFL at the end of last season by one rating system - I believe it was Pro Football Focus.

 

This year hasn't really been much better.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Boludo

[machine gun kelly]

 

 

what good is getting open if you have stone hands? and goodwin is a very good blocker (see the block on Spiller run yesterday where spiller got flagged for facemask as evidence)

 

Thank you. I don't know what anyone sees in Graham. I'm praying he is cut this off season. I like Hogan more. Goodwin was flagged as "well, can he run crisp routes, etc.". The answer has been yes. I love that guy. He runs solid routes quick, and has good hands. The flip side is stone hands Graham. Remember the fumble he caused with the Chiefs that sealed the loss.

 

 

[metzelaars_lives]

Why do families of soldiers still act surprised when they get invited onto the field of a sporting event to accept an award on the soldier's behalf and then the dude shows up? There are certain questions that it's better to just stop asking.

[Jerry Jabber]

The thing with Graham is that if he is covered, he has a very hard time of creating any type of separation, as well as outleaping and outmuscling defenders for the ball. Plus, he has poor route running skills. Like others have said, if the ball isn’t thrown perfectly to him, he has a very hard time catching the ball.

[BADOLBILZ]

With one argument about Graham being "he drops passes" vs. "He's open but not getting the ball," I decided to

look at receptions against targets for each receiver on the team:

 

T. J. Graham 18 (recs) 46 (targets) = 39% (success)

M. Goodwin 16 30 = 53%

S. Johnson 52 100 = 52%

R. Woods 36 75 = 48%

 

This season T.J. is only completing 39% of the plays thrown to him while the other 3 are all hovering around 50%

Of course, this doesn't take into account the QB's throw, but over enough throws, you would think each receiver gets his share

of good and bad throws.

 

And again to compare Graham and Goodwin, T.J. with 16 more targets has exactly 2 recs and 11 yards more than Goodwin (and yet 2 fewer TDs).

 

 

Goodwin should be getting more time and targets than Graham going forward and I think we'll start seeing that these last two games

and on into next year.

 

And Marquise can fly btw (just look at my avatar).

 

It would be interesting to know how many of those throws were from EJ and to what side of the field. EJ throws a much better ball to the right.........as discussed in another thread.........likely because of his sloppy footwork. Frankly he has looked terrible on anything to the left. My recollection is that Goodwin's action this year has mostly been on the right side of the formation while TJ's seems to be mostly on the left. TJ's one big play this year was the play where he came back for a lob that EJ threw while escaping a free rusher....and then running it in for 6. It was a good play by both but not really a case of running a great route or making a great throw. I'm not defending TJ but maybe the coaches know that the ball isn't going left anyway.

[Lawren87]

I love the idea of EJ as our franchise QB but, now that he is hurt and Thad is starting, I bet Graham has one of his better games of the season. Don't believe me? Just watch!

[ColdBlueNorth]

I've said it before & I'll say it again: TJ Graham gets wide open all day every day. It's hard to judge his hands when the ball rarely comes his way. We'll find out if he can play after he's run out of town & goes to NE.

 

I think he is probably open all the time because.

 

A. He has a reputation for bad hands, catching with his body, fighting the ball (pick your adjective) and hence dropping passes so I don't think any of the QBs have a ton of confidence throwing to him so he isn't their first read, and probably not the second.

B. Defenses know this and will let him fly by with all that speed to roll coverage to the more likely targets.