SageAgainstTheMachine Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 Agreed and even the ones who support EJ (which again if you're a Bills fan, why wouldn't you) know he's a work in progress. I think the feeling of pressure is something you gain with more experience. EJ has 6 fumbles, Peyton has 10. I'd love to see a breakdown of rookie QBs and their turnovers. Besides the last 2 games, EJ has done a very good job of taking care of the football. In fact, one of my concerns is he's too cautious at times. Personally, I love deep passes but even if it's intercepted, it's like a punt. Pretty surprising. I just don't know how many times I've thought "WATCH OUT, HE'S RIGHT BEHIND YOU!" when watching the Bills this year. EJ's like the dumb blonde in a horror movie when pressure comes. To be fair though, if our LG situation wasn't such a hot mess then it wouldn't be as big of a deal.
Hazed and Amuzed Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 AJ hawk was 5th overall. He's been playing for 25 years? Damn hgh is good schitt Guess I missed him, I made mistake. So in the last 25 years between those 4 teams who have accounted for almost half of the SB wins in that span they have drafted a total of 5 top 5 picks. 2 by the Ravens 1 by the Pats, 1 by the Giants and 1 by the Pack. Only one of those picks was a QB-Eli. Sorry I was half asleep when I typed the earlier post.
SRQ_BillsFan Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 Seriously, this lose out for better draft position thing is laughable. It's kitty BS. I wouldn't want to be part of any team that lost on purpose much less a fan of such a team. It's a loser mentality and B****made. Bunch of kittens who root to lose should go find another team to "root" for. I agree with you 100% That's why I can't stand what is going on with the Sabres and many people are behind that. Now I don't think the players or coaches are trying to lose out, but given what's left they have no chance over the long haul. Management set them up for this and it sickens me. However many are behind it.
GunnerBill Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 I am getting sick of the projects. Let the Bills take the big brand name for once. Tim Tebow is a big brand name. He can't play Quarterback though. The QB with the "brand name" in the draft was Geno Smith... and I'm yet to see any evidence he can play either.
Boatdrinks Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 I agree with you 100% That's why I can't stand what is going on with the Sabres and many people are behind that. Now I don't think the players or coaches are trying to lose out, but given what's left they have no chance over the long haul. Management set them up for this and it sickens me. However many are behind it. Apples and oranges. Hockey is different. The top pick or # 2 has a much higher chance of being great historically vs NFL draft, where busts abound. Probably just that the pro game vs college is so different in football vs hockey, where the talent tends to translate is a more linear fashion.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) I mock a losers mentality, if you take it personally then you should take a look at that. Lets take a look at a few recent super bowl winning teams that are known as teams that build through the draft: Steelers Ravens Giants Patriots Want to take a guess which teams have picked in the top 5 in the last 20 years? Only 1. The Gints in 2004 picked #4. The last time the Steelers or GB picked in the top 5 was 1989 and the last time the Pats did was 1994. So please elaborate on how finishing with a higher draft pick equates to winning a championship. Where you draft has a much smaller roll than who's doing the drafting and looking back at our last draft I'm willing to give up a few spots for a couple of wins. I think Whaley did well this time around and I'm willing to bet we have another good draft regardless of where we pick, whether it be 6 or 13. Where did Eli Manning go? They won two Superbowls with him. The Giants moved up to number one overall. The Steelers just sucked enough to take Big Ben right before the the Bills... Bills lose a few more games, it would have been him instead of JP. Edited December 16, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois
Boatdrinks Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 Where did Eli Manning go? They won two Superbowls with him. The Giants moved up to number one overall. The Steelers just sucked enough to take Big Ben right before the the Bills... Bills lose a few more games, it would have been him instead of JP. Yep. A few narrow misses dramatically changed the last ten years or so for this team. Roethlisberger one of the biggest. Too bad we tried that reclamation project with Bledsoe , as it probably cost us a shot at Roethlisberger, Rivers, perhaps E Manning.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) Yep. A few narrow misses dramatically changed the last ten years or so for this team. Roethlisberger one of the biggest. Too bad we tried that reclamation project with Bledsoe , as it probably cost us a shot at Roethlisberger, Rivers, perhaps E Manning. I was pro Bledsoe and the reclamation project! Should have been Dallas Clark instead of Willy Mc! Probably would have helped the reclamation project, instead we start projects! Then we "had JP!" "Give him a chance" "He's only a rookie!" Then we draft 'Lil Donte over Jay Cutler! See the trend? Do you will ever think it will stop? Every time we miss out out on a Mercedes because we have a servicable Kia in the garage... Until the Kia blows up and we realize the resale sucks the worst in the industry! For once, can't we get a big brand? And build around that? It hasn't been done since Bledsoe and that's the closest we have come to the playoffs! Then we torpedo him and take a gimpy running back that needs a year or to to heal... Huh? Edited December 16, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois
DrDawkinstein Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 I was pro Bledsoe and the reclamation project! Should have been Dallas Clark instead of Willy Mc! Probably would have helped the reclamation project, instead we start projects! Then we "had JP!" "Give him a chance" "He's only a rookie!" Then we draft 'Lil Donte over Jay Cutler! See the trend? Do you will ever think it will stop? Every time we miss out out on a Mercedes because we have a servicable Kia in the garage... Until the Kia blows up and we realize the resale sucks the worst in the industry! For once, can't we get a big brand? And build around that? It hasn't been done since Bledsoe and that's the closest we have come to the playoffs! Then we torpedo him and take a gimpy running back that needs a year or to to heal... Huh? Who? What "big brand" QB is available?
Hazed and Amuzed Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 Yep. A few narrow misses dramatically changed the last ten years or so for this team. Roethlisberger one of the biggest. Too bad we tried that reclamation project with Bledsoe , as it probably cost us a shot at Roethlisberger, Rivers, perhaps E Manning. But that could be said about any team in any round in any year. THATS why it's WHO we pick and not WHERE pick. Losing on purpose is a ridiculous idea and a losers mentality. The Bills could have drafted Wilfork instead of Lee Evens that year, think about the difference that would have made. Near misses have very little to do with draft position and a lot to do with drafting ability.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) Who? What "big brand" QB is available? Johnny Football of course... ;-P But that could be said about any team in any round in any year. THATS why it's WHO we pick and not WHERE pick. Losing on purpose is a ridiculous idea and a losers mentality. The Bills could have drafted Wilfork instead of Lee Evens that year, think about the difference that would have made. Near misses have very little to do with draft position and a lot to do with drafting ability. They have a lot to do with the QB "sweepstakes" when Manning, Rivers, Big Ben went... What did we get stuck with that year... ? GB dupes us and then they take Rodgers, JP was "just good enough for a year." Houston is tanking just @ the right time to get Manziel... Edited December 16, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois
Boatdrinks Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 I was pro Bledsoe and the reclamation project! Should have been Dallas Clark instead of Willy Mc! Probably would have helped the reclamation project, instead we start projects! Then we "had JP!" "Give him a chance" "He's only a rookie!" Then we draft 'Lil Donte over Jay Cutler! See the trend? Do you will ever think it will stop? Every time we miss out out on a Mercedes because we have a servicable Kia in the garage... Until the Kia blows up and we realize the resale sucks the worst in the industry! For once, can't we get a big brand? And build around that? It hasn't been done since Bledsoe and that's the closest we have come to the playoffs! Then we torpedo him and take a gimpy running back that needs a year or to to heal... Huh? It still boils down to the draft. The last (few) Butler drafts, the Donahoe drafts, and the (Ugh) Marv/ Brandon drafts yielded precious few stars. The Bills have, for whatever reason, not taken them. I'm not talking about the guys they couldn't have had (Newton, Luck) but the Cutlers, Kaepernicks, Wilson's and Daltons. Not to mention the Ngatas, Witttens and Gronkowski's. Just how did these GM's manage to keep their jobs for so long...?
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 It still boils down to the draft. The last (few) Butler drafts, the Donahoe drafts, and the (Ugh) Marv/ Brandon drafts yielded precious few stars. The Bills have, for whatever reason, not taken them. I'm not talking about the guys they couldn't have had (Newton, Luck) but the Cutlers, Kaepernicks, Wilson's and Daltons. Not to mention the Ngatas, Witttens and Gronkowski's. Just how did these GM's manage to keep their jobs for so long...? Preaching to the choir Boatdrinks! Preaching to the choir! ;-)
Boatdrinks Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 But that could be said about any team in any round in any year. THATS why it's WHO we pick and not WHERE pick. Losing on purpose is a ridiculous idea and a losers mentality. The Bills could have drafted Wilfork instead of Lee Evens that year, think about the difference that would have made. Near misses have very little to do with draft position and a lot to do with drafting ability. I'm not advocating losing for draft position. The Bills had all kinds of great players available to them when they picked over the years and did not take them. Being a GM is not about always having the best pick, just about taking the best players when you do select. The great ones (Polian etc) are great because they are right far more often than wrong. So while we missed out on Ben by trading for Bledose (magic bullets rarely work) we could have had Cutler, Kap, Wilson or Dalton. Bad GM's making bad picks did us in. Hopefully Whaley can reverse the trend.
Hazed and Amuzed Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 Johnny Football of course... ;-P They have a lot to do with the QB "sweepstakes" when Manning, Rivers, Big Ben went... What did we get stuck with that year... ? GB dupes us and then they take Rodgers, JP was "just good enough for a year." Houston is tanking just @ the right time to get Manziel... And out of the QB sweepstakes of last year it seems as though Russell Wilson(a 3rd rounder) was the best pick.
Rob's House Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) Tom Brady in the 6th made the Pats. Aaron Rodgers, projected #1 overall, fell to the #24 and the Pack drafted him. Made their team. Russell Wilson went in the 3rd, took the Seahwaks to another level. Kaepernick goes in the 2nd. Yup, the draft is a crapshoot. The opposite of up is 12, therefore banana. Edited December 17, 2013 by Rob's House
LB3 Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) Johnny Football of course... ;-P They have a lot to do with the QB "sweepstakes" when Manning, Rivers, Big Ben went... What did we get stuck with that year... ? GB dupes us and then they take Rodgers, JP was "just good enough for a year." Houston is tanking just @ the right time to get Manziel... Why waste a pick on that garden gnome Manziel. Those ducks he throws will hang up like crazy here in Buffalo. Not to mention he's likely never going to stay healthy for a full year the way he plays. Here's what we should do. Relax!! If EJ is as bad as a lot of people believe he is (myself not included), then we'll set ourselves up perfectly for the next decade by winning the Jameis Winston lottery in 2015. He is the only sure fire QB in college in my mind. And we wouldn't have wasted a pick on Manziel or any other QB next year. I don't think there is one guaranteed franchise QB coming out. There are legitimate concerns about all of them. Edited December 17, 2013 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall
Reed83HOF Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 I stoked the fire on this thread a bit because we need to have this discussion. There are those who feel that winning is the most important things and others who don't care that much about the wins. Right now; yeah I do tend to fall in that latter category. I don't want us to lose on purpose and I would like to see EJ and the team progress, but if they don't win; honestly I don't care. This season is lost the only wins that will be a building block for us is to beat NE. Do we not choose the right players in the draft and miss, hell yeah, but so do 31 other teams. Honestly yeah I want to see progress on the field, but drafting right now at #4 instead of #11 a meaningless win in Jax could actually either help us potentially grab a true blue chipper, only 3 other teams can choose the player we want and we don't risk a chance of losing him (as other pointed out). Or if someone all of a sudden catches pre-draft fire and teams want to trade up - I am not willing to turn down extra picks to turn this ship around faster. Honestly is a win against the crappy Jags really going to do much for us this off-season? not really.... I am not ready to give up on EJ, but the kid does have some flaws that some tend to look the other way and use stats to ignore what we see on the field. In the past that has been me; this year stats are stats, what I see I am not sure how correctable it is. I truly hope it is. I would rather draft high and get the #1 WR out there and see what EJ does next season. Can always make a trade or suck enough next year to grab a QB if he doesn't pan out....
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Super Bowl rings. "In the Super Bowl era, here is the list of #1 overall pick quarterbacks: 2005 Alex Smith 2004 Eli Manning 2003 Carson Palmer 2002 David Carr 2001 Michael Vick 1999 Tim Couch 1998 Peyton Manning 1993 Drew Bledsoe 1990 Jeff George 1989 Troy Aikman 1987 Vinny Testaverde 1984 [should we count Steve Young? I guess not.] 1983 John Elway 1975 Steve Bartkowski 1971 Jim Plunkett" Let's not forget: Terry Bradshaw (1970) & Joe Namath (1965) Out of the almost 50 Superbowls... 24 or so rings are held by about 14 first round drafted Qb's.
LB3 Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) Super Bowl rings. "In the Super Bowl era, here is the list of #1 overall pick quarterbacks: 2005 Alex Smith 2004 Eli Manning 2003 Carson Palmer 2002 David Carr 2001 Michael Vick 1999 Tim Couch 1998 Peyton Manning 1993 Drew Bledsoe 1990 Jeff George 1989 Troy Aikman 1987 Vinny Testaverde 1984 [should we count Steve Young? I guess not.] 1983 John Elway 1975 Steve Bartkowski 1971 Jim Plunkett" Let's not forget: Terry Bradshaw (1970) & Joe Namath (1965) Out of the almost 50 Superbowls... 24 or so rings are held by about 14 first round drafted Qb's. So essentially you are saying drafting a Super Bowl winning QB with the first overall pick is a coin flip? 9 of the 17 QB'S you listed never won a Super Bowl as a starter. Edited December 17, 2013 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall
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