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For the record -- Manuel's rating today was 105.0


dave mcbride

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So essentially you are saying drafting a Super Bowl winning QB with the first overall pick is a coin flip? 9 of the 17 QB'S you listed never won a Super Bowl.

 

YET, if you look @ the number ones (and first rounders when they do win), they tend to win multiple championships... It is slighty better than a coin flip. A better than 50% coin flip is pretty damn good! I will take it anyday over any other "system." ;-P

 

I am not saying BFLO will get the number one and pick a QB... The numbers are really in for first rounders... We should take another crack @ a first round QB! That's all...

Edited by ExiledInIllinois
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Understandable. Still, we need to hedge our mistakes just incase. JP was a first rounder, same thing was said about him... LoL.

 

I hope he is not a bust, but the odds are against, his mechanics look awful...

 

I have drank the kool-aid too much this century. It was said about RJ, said about Flutie, said about Bledsoe, said about JP, said about Trent, said about Fitz etc...

 

When you compare what you listed above to your Brady & Montana - they are few and far between. It is hard to say you get luck in the mid-first anymore as the league has become more QB driven and the rules slanted; teams will always trade up for that QB now; not like in 83 when Kelly & Marino could be had. They don't last that long anymore. Even the Rodgers slip won't happen in this day and age.

 

That said I would go WR with our first rounder if possible, but he has to be a big tall guy who can catch anything. He doesn't have to be a burner as we have TJ and Goodwin to spread the D. I could see us going DL with our first round as well. QB, RB and DB won't happen....EJ gets 2014; but yeah I am concerned. I need to see growth ,not in stats but he has to make the throws and not leave it up to the WRs to make an acrobatic catch, he has to protect the ball better and his mechanics need to get better....

 

Honest question is EJ = Dalton?

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I have drank the kool-aid too much this century. It was said about RJ, said about Flutie, said about Bledsoe, said about JP, said about Trent, said about Fitz etc...

 

When you compare what you listed above to your Brady & Montana - they are few and far between. It is hard to say you get luck in the mid-first anymore as the league has become more QB driven and the rules slanted; teams will always trade up for that QB now; not like in 83 when Kelly & Marino could be had. They don't last that long anymore. Even the Rodgers slip won't happen in this day and age.

 

That said I would go WR with our first rounder if possible, but he has to be a big tall guy who can catch anything. He doesn't have to be a burner as we have TJ and Goodwin to spread the D. I could see us going DL with our first round as well. QB, RB and DB won't happen....EJ gets 2014; but yeah I am concerned. I need to see growth ,not in stats but he has to make the throws and not leave it up to the WRs to make an acrobatic catch, he has to protect the ball better and his mechanics need to get better....

 

Honest question is EJ = Dalton?

 

Add in the biggest thing (IMO) that changed: Technology and headsets. That is is for another argument!

 

I hear you! I am concerned we will end right back @ zero a year from now. Not hating on EJ, I even don't see Dalton.

 

I should love him... He shares my exact same initials and name! LoL That's not even helping...

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Excerpted from another thread and posted here:

 

Here's a list of the most recent first round QBs and where they were drafted:

 

Matthew Stafford 1st overall 2009

Mark Sanchez 5th overall 2009

Josh Freeman 17th overall 2009

Sam Bradford 1st overall 2010

Tim Tebow 25th overall 2010

Cam Newton 1st overall 2011

Jake Locker 8th overall 2011

Blaine Gabbert 10th overall 2011

Christian Ponder 12th overall 2011

Andrew Luck 1st overall 2012

RG3 2nd overall 2012

Ryan Tannehill 8th overall 2012

Brandon Weeden 22nd overall 2012

 

Only two of those players have established themselves as bona fide quality NFL starters, Stafford and Newton. Both of those guys were taken first overall.

 

Of the other players drafted in the Top 5, it's looking very likely that Luck and RG3 will have great careers and it's looking more and more certain that Sanchez and Bradford are gonna be busts.

 

Then you have players taken outside the top 5 where EJ was selected:

 

Josh Freeman, Tim Tebow, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Weeden.

 

I would take EJ over any of those guys. Only Tannehill and Locker have an argument and Locker is in his 3rd NFL season.

 

Then you consider how well EJ has played especially considering he missed half the preseason and 5 weeks of the regular season.

 

Then you consider that the Bills traded down and still got Manuel.

 

Then you realize that people posting on this board and expressing disappointment in EJ's rookie season really have no idea what they're talking about because they have no idea what a rookie QB in the NFL is realistically expected.

 

Edited by San Jose Bills Fan, 07 December 2013 - 09:33 AM.

 

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I don't think EJ's mechanics are awful. It's massively overstated. Is there room for improvement there? Sure, but even someone like a Matt Stafford who was seen as more of a prototype pocket passer coming out came in with some tidying up needed on his mechanics.

 

As for "we should pick a Quarterback this year because it's such a great class" I just don't buy it I'm sorry. I don't think Manziel will be a top end starter in this league, I really don't. He isn't all that accurate and Mike Evans bails him out of a lot of bad throws that he just will not get away with in the NFL against better DBs and I'm not convinced I've seen enough from Bridgewater considering the standard of opposition he is playing against. Then there are lots of interesting project guys.... Murray, Boyd, Hundley, Carr, McCarron but none of those have done anything to makie me think they're a slam dunk first round pick that should not be missed.

 

I actually think we give EJ next year we see where he is at that point and then we have much more to base a judgment on and if he has not shown enough to suggest he is the answer we give up whatever it takes (chances are if EJ's played poorly it won't take as much) to get up the board to take Winston or Mariota both of whom I do think could be slam dunk picks at this stage.

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No, you just proved that you need to find a good QB to be a competitive team. Something that the Bills have not put a priority on between 2004 and 2013.

 

Taking the first QB in the draft and with your first round pick is not putting a priority on getting a QB? I mean, you may not like the results, but it's obviously a priority for Buffalo.

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The difference between JP and EJ is that EJ learns game to game. You never see EJ make the same mistake. Also EJ seems to be more accurate at the intermediate pass than JP.

 

Except for not taking care of the ball while rollng out and having it knocked out. He did it a couple of times earlier in the season and again on Sunday. He needs to work on that. I suspect he probably is.

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Its strange, the TV announcer made a comment that brought back memories of 1970 the announcer Sunday said that EJ had just broken Dennis Shaw's Bills record for TD passes by a rookie QB. Well, with my grey hair, I remember that season...Dennis Shaw was Rookie of the year, I think. He had great receivers and they made him....he threw a rainbow ball, and they went and got the ball. But, they could not disguise that weak arm very long, and Dennis Shaw was out of the league really quick. I am hoping that EJ has a stronger arm, but, I don't know. Have not seen him rifle one 60 yards on a line. (Took Dennis two throws to go 60 yds :D ) Jury is still out on EJ

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Excerpted from another thread and posted here:

 

Here's a list of the most recent first round QBs and where they were drafted:

 

Matthew Stafford 1st overall 2009

Mark Sanchez 5th overall 2009

Josh Freeman 17th overall 2009

Sam Bradford 1st overall 2010

Tim Tebow 25th overall 2010

Cam Newton 1st overall 2011

Jake Locker 8th overall 2011

Blaine Gabbert 10th overall 2011

Christian Ponder 12th overall 2011

Andrew Luck 1st overall 2012

RG3 2nd overall 2012

Ryan Tannehill 8th overall 2012

Brandon Weeden 22nd overall 2012

 

Only two of those players have established themselves as bona fide quality NFL starters, Stafford and Newton. Both of those guys were taken first overall.

 

Of the other players drafted in the Top 5, it's looking very likely that Luck and RG3 will have great careers and it's looking more and more certain that Sanchez and Bradford are gonna be busts.

 

Then you have players taken outside the top 5 where EJ was selected:

 

Josh Freeman, Tim Tebow, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Weeden.

 

I would take EJ over any of those guys. Only Tannehill and Locker have an argument and Locker is in his 3rd NFL season.

 

Then you consider how well EJ has played especially considering he missed half the preseason and 5 weeks of the regular season.

 

Then you consider that the Bills traded down and still got Manuel.

 

Then you realize that people posting on this board and expressing disappointment in EJ's rookie season really have no idea what they're talking about because they have no idea what a rookie QB in the NFL is realistically expected.

 

Edited by San Jose Bills Fan, 07 December 2013 - 09:33 AM.

 

Add to that they really thought he would sit and be mentored by a veteran QB which did not happen. I believe he looks to us like he is coming along slowly but he may be ahead of the plan from what OBD thought they would have from him this year. They wanted to "develop" his raw ability as I recall.

 

Also, they targeted EJ ... I think they took JP because he was what was left. There is a big difference there. Getting what they want vs settling should give you more hope I would think.

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