Unrealistic Expectations = Disappointment

[QB Bills]

With even mediocre QB play, this would easily be a playoff team. Every team, even the elite ones, have holes in the free agency era. Top to bottom, if you exclude the most important position, this is a pretty good roster.

 

Manuel may yet turn into a good pro down the road, but he has ranged from bad to atrocious this season. Not sure why everyone thinks we would have been better off had he not gotten injured in Cleveland. Thad Lewis of all people came in and did a better job. A cast-off with less pro experience that Manuel at the time, for the record.

 

Another myth is that he somehow keyed the comeback win against Carolina. He threw 5 yard passes to the RBs, one of which was an uncatchable bullet to CJ that should have been intercepted after it bounced off him. Fred Jackson willed the team down the field on that drive. The lob to SJ at the end was short and had no chance of being complete had the DBs not screwed up.

 

Also, he threw what should have been a game-ending interception right before Stevie fumbled in the Falcons game. A horrible pass that the DB should have caught. The result of the fumble was obviously the backbreaker, but this was a more egregious error in my opinion.

 

He's thrown a couple of nice passes here and there (the TD pass to SJ in the opener among them) but they have been so few and far between that they seem more like an anomaly than anything.

 

Again, not saying that he is or isn't going to be a good player down the road, but his play really has been the biggest cause of another failed season this year. Whether that's his fault or not, in terms of him being ready to take the reins, is probably a more debatable point.

[BADOLBILZ]

With even mediocre QB play, this would easily be a playoff team. Every team, even the elite ones, have holes in the free agency era. Top to bottom, if you exclude the most important position, this is a pretty good roster.

 

Manuel may yet turn into a good pro down the road, but he has ranged from bad to atrocious this season. Not sure why everyone thinks we would have been better off had he not gotten injured in Cleveland. Thad Lewis of all people came in and did a better job. A cast-off with less pro experience that Manuel at the time, for the record.

 

Another myth is that he somehow keyed the comeback win against Carolina. He threw 5 yard passes to the RBs, one of which was an uncatchable bullet to CJ that should have been intercepted after it bounced off him. Fred Jackson willed the team down the field on that drive. The lob to SJ at the end was short and had no chance of being complete had the DBs not screwed up.

 

Also, he threw what should have been a game-ending interception right before Stevie fumbled in the Falcons game. A horrible pass that the DB should have caught. The result of the fumble was obviously the backbreaker, but this was a more egregious error in my opinion.

 

He's thrown a couple of nice passes here and there (the TD pass to SJ in the opener among them) but they have been so few and far between that they seem more like an anomaly than anything.

 

Again, not saying that he is or isn't going to be a good player down the road, but his play really has been the biggest cause of another failed season this year. Whether that's his fault or not, in terms of him being ready to take the reins, is probably a more debatable point.

 

There are a lot of Buffalo Bills fans that apparently haven't noticed that it has become much easier to play QB in the NFL today. They are grading EJ on a curve that doesn't exist anymore.

[thewildrabbit]

And you can surely do a better job than any of the ones that have been hired to run this team, past or present, I'm sure which is why you are in the front office for which team? I like and trust Whaley. The jury is still out on Marrone and Hackett. Pettine is proven and just needs a couple more pieces. The ST coach needs to be fired. If you really hate the team and the way it is run THAT much then pick another team to piss and moan about on some other board.

This was never about my choices for players, or my evaluation of talent. A Bills fan has a difference of opinion with you and suddenly they need to change teams or leave the forum? I never said I hated the team, and since when is stating facts pissing and moaning? Show me where I posted something that was incorrect.

 

 

I was honestly hoping this new GM, HC, and his staff were somehow different from the previous losers, and I haven't completely given up on Marrone or Whaley yet either. Just his OC and ST coach, and even then I was defending this staff up until the Chiefs game in week 9. I happen to think that because Buddy Nix was the GM thru the draft and still is a special assistant with the team as a consultant. That Nix probably had quite a bit to do with Whaley trusting some of those players. Brown, Rodgers, Young.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/75473/bills-gm-buddy-nix-guard-not-a-need

 

I also happen to think that Whaley did a good job with the draft this year. Kiko, Woods, EJ. Goodwin. If you read thru a lot of my posts you would see that I've defended Marrone, Whaley, and EJ quite a bit this year, just not the OC. As I think that Hackett is going to ruin EJ with his bad game plans and schemes, and CJ is not a pound it up the middle type back IMO.

 

I was just having a discussion, If you want to defend them, that's fine. Just don't start bossing me around, telling me what i should do. If this is how you react to someone who doesn't agree with you, I'll gladly stay away.

[Wayne Cubed]

There are a lot of Buffalo Bills fans that apparently haven't noticed that it has become much easier to play QB in the NFL today. They are grading EJ on a curve that doesn't exist anymore.

 

Huh? Please do explain and site examples of where this is true.

[MDH]

 

Manuel may yet turn into a good pro down the road, but he has ranged from bad to atrocious this season. Not sure why everyone thinks we would have been better off had he not gotten injured in Cleveland. Thad Lewis of all people came in and did a better job. A cast-off with less pro experience that Manuel at the time, for the record.

 

 

This is simply false. Lewis was more consistent but his level of play was never very high. People complain about Manuel going to his check down too quickly yet in each of Lewis' games his YPA was in the 6s (6.00, 6.31, 6.75.) That's not a good number and one he was consistently around. I'm not a huge believer in stats telling the entire story but YPA is about as good of an indicator for a QB as you can get.

 

Contrast this with EJ who is less consistent but also prone to much better days. EJ had some horrible games where he averaged in the 5s yet he also had some good days where he was in the 7s and twice in the 8s. In the Bills wins EJ has a completion percentage of 65%, YPA of almost 8 and a rating of 92.8.

 

This is what you want from your QB, driving the ball down field and completing a good percentage of them. It's also what people said they wanted to see from EJ and they could forgive the inconsistencies of the QB if he showed flashes. Well, he has shown flashes,some people just don't want to acknowledge them. The only way for him to be more consistent is for him to get more playing time.

 

To me what these stats show that it's QB play that's basically determining the game. When EJ plays well the Bills win and when he doesn't they lose. Any time his YPA number was over 7 the Bills won (even if his completion % wasn't good.) This shows me that if he can get the game to slow down he is very capable of playing well enough for the Bills to win. It's a matter of consistency. If plays more consistent he'll be the answer but if he never gets there (and some guys just don't) the Bills will need to look again - but they need to find out before they move on and he needs to play for them to find out.

[NoSaint]

 

 

There are a lot of Buffalo Bills fans that apparently haven't noticed that it has become much easier to play QB in the NFL today. They are grading EJ on a curve that doesn't exist anymore.

 

Lets also not pretend its easy now either.

[Dorkington]

I'm not so convinced that Thad played better than EJ... did he fill in nicely? Yes. But overall better? Eh... I think about the same. Thad has been in the league a little while though, and EJ's a rookie who missed most of the pre season and part of the regular season.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm#passing::none

[JohnC]

 

 

There are a lot of Buffalo Bills fans that apparently haven't noticed that it has become much easier to play QB in the NFL today. They are grading EJ on a curve that doesn't exist anymore.

 

Just because something is easier to do doesn't mean that it is easy to do. It was recognized when he was evaluated and drafted that Manuel was more of a developmental prospect with higher a upside than the more finished prospects with less upside, such as Barkley and Nassib. A factor in EJ's struggles this year had to do with injuries that kept him off the field during the preseason and during the season. Not having him practicing certainly set him back.

 

This year was never going to be a playoff year not only because a rookie was at the helm but because this team was simply not good enough. Will the Bills have enoungh talent to be a playoff team next year? In my view no. This is an organizatiion that doesn't act with too much zeal in getting substantially better in an offseason. For this franchise the standard approach is addressing newly created needs due to departed players that they could have been retained.

 

Just when our defensive backfield has started to play well as a unit next year it will have to be remodified with the probable departure of Byrd. In my view he is one of the top three free safeties in the league. When he leaves the replacement player will be a dramatic downgrade, as it was with the Levitre departure and his replacement.

 

Sometimes success is more predicated on how you operate your franchise than on individually evaluating what you do. Will this franchise act outside of its normal pattern or will it show more urgency in getting better? I hope it is the latter.

Edited December 17, 2013 by JohnC

[K-9]

I was expecting 6 wins if things broke our way a little bit.

 

Offensively, I had NO illusions of grandeur given our inexperience at QB, a woefully thin WR corp, and a rookie OC who I thought would need the better part of half a season to even begin to see what he had in terms of which personnel groups to use when and where. That is still a work in progress. Given that Freddy and CJ are our best players, the reliance, stubborn at times, on the run game is not a surprise in the least. By far the biggest negative was the stifling of EJ's development. Losing 6 weeks to injury really hurt him.

 

Defensively, while I like what Pettine does with our front 7, we are still not a dominating defense. We can be if playing with comfortable leads (as would any defense) but those were gonna be far and few between given our offensive deficiencies. When we can stop opponents when we HAVE to on a consistent basis, I'll think they're on their way. While being able to bring pressure certainly helps, we are way to susceptible to giving up big plays. Right now, if we aren't getting the timely turnover, we aren't winning games with this defense. And while I agree that a better offense can only help, a defense HAS to take care of its own business regardless and we just aren't there yet.

 

All in all, they are pretty much where I expected them to be. And while disappointing to me as a fan, it's not worth gnashing teeth over. If I thought the Bills should be any more dominant than they are given their personnel, perhaps I'd be more outraged.

 

Most importantly, I think they are establishing a foundation for moving forward. This will be an important offseason to say the least.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[John from Riverside]

All I was looking for this season was steady progress but it looks like this team has regressed the last few weeks that is what disappoints me but maybe some of the young player hit that "wall" so to speak.

 

Except they won on Sunday?

 

I couldnt even give a record prediction this year......because I knew it was gonna get better before it got worse with a entire new YOUNG coaching staff.......we have youth everywhere.......we are rebiulding in a bunch of key spots

 

Dont get me wrong.....this team has made mistakes......the OL in particular but that is all the maturation process of a rookie head coach

 

This offseason will give a true determination of what this team is going to look like going forward.

[H2o]

This was never about my choices for players, or my evaluation of talent. A Bills fan has a difference of opinion with you and suddenly they need to change teams or leave the forum? I never said I hated the team, and since when is stating facts pissing and moaning? Show me where I posted something that was incorrect.

 

 

I was honestly hoping this new GM, HC, and his staff were somehow different from the previous losers, and I haven't completely given up on Marrone or Whaley yet either. Just his OC and ST coach, and even then I was defending this staff up until the Chiefs game in week 9. I happen to think that because Buddy Nix was the GM thru the draft and still is a special assistant with the team as a consultant. That Nix probably had quite a bit to do with Whaley trusting some of those players. Brown, Rodgers, Young.

 

http://espn.go.com/b...uard-not-a-need

 

I also happen to think that Whaley did a good job with the draft this year. Kiko, Woods, EJ. Goodwin. If you read thru a lot of my posts you would see that I've defended Marrone, Whaley, and EJ quite a bit this year, just not the OC. As I think that Hackett is going to ruin EJ with his bad game plans and schemes, and CJ is not a pound it up the middle type back IMO.

 

I was just having a discussion, If you want to defend them, that's fine. Just don't start bossing me around, telling me what i should do. If this is how you react to someone who doesn't agree with you, I'll gladly stay away.

 

Sorry my friend, maybe I have just misunderstood where you were coming from. I have no problems with people disagreeing with me at all. Such is life. I apologize for taking out my angst against whiners on you as it is not you who are the root. Either way, we can agree to disagree. Take care FearTheLosing.

[Rob's House]

And you can surely do a better job than any of the ones that have been hired to run this team, past or present, I'm sure which is why you are in the front office for which team? I like and trust Whaley. The jury is still out on Marrone and Hackett. Pettine is proven and just needs a couple more pieces. The ST coach needs to be fired. If you really hate the team and the way it is run THAT much then pick another team to piss and moan about on some other board.

 

I find this line of thought not only flawed, but also repellent. You're asserting that all should defer to authority, and the basis of the deferment is that someone has a job for which their judgment on this matter is of the highest importance. But if that person fails miserably isn't it entirely possible that their judgment was not what their employer believed it to be when making the hire? Further, often times we're talking about player evaluation and game philosophies. You and I can see what the player on the field is doing. We may not know exactly how it all fits in to the coach's plan, but it's not like we're listening to a complex lecture on nuclear physics and have to have DC Tom explain it to us. Dave Wannstedt was an NFL HC and DC. Does that mean he knows what's what when it comes to running a defense? Should everyone should shut up and defer to him because he's the professional?

 

Especially for this franchise which has seen multiple professionals come in, make boneheaded decisions that the bulk of fans disagreed with, only for those fans to be proven right, it would seem obvious that official position does not equate to competence. When Maybin gets picked and half the fanbase is pulling their hair out over it, that suggests the fans might see something the coaching staff doesn't.

 

To be fair, you didn't take this argument as far as some, but this post was an opportunity to address the issue. Someone last week asked how a poster could question these professionals with their life times of experience. The way I see it, rookie GM, rookie HC, and a rookie OC don't bring a whole lot of NFL experience at their respective positions to the table, Just sayin.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Rob's House

[vorpma]

It seems to me that a lot of people on this board had unrealistic expectations about this team. It has led to all of the "fire everyone", "cut or trade everyone", and "whaaaa" threads. At the beginning of the season I thought we MIGHT win 6 or 7 games by splitting with the Phins and Jets, then beating Cleveland, KC, Jacksonville, Carolina, and possibly Tampa. This team is pretty much where I expected them to be win/loss wise even though we didn't beat a couple of the teams I thought we would and there are still 3 games left. Let's break down what we actually have here in Buffalo.

 

Let us begin by taking a look at the coaching staff. We have a rookie NFL head coach. Doug Marrone has some quality experience in the NFL as he served under Herm Edwards in NY and was Sean Payton's OC/OL Coach in New Orleans from 2006-2008. Everyone wants to throw him under the bus already. He hasn't even had a full season, not to mention he has had an often injured ROOKIE QB, an UNDRAFTED FA ROOKIE QB, and a QB that came over late in the process having to learn a new offense while trying to build a rapport with new players. He inherited a 6-10 team people, not a 10-6 team like Trestman. I do question some of the guys on his staff, mainly the ST Coordinator is a bum if you ask me, but everyone else is going to have the same growing pains because of what we have under Center. With the DC, Mike Pettine, you knew what you were going to get. I love the direction of the defense. We are more than likely going to break the team's single season sack record under Pettine's tutelage. Bottom line, Doug Whaley and Doug Marrone will work together through this next offseason to get the players that they feel we need to win. If you think these guys don't want to win then you are insane. This is their job, their reputation, and their livelihoods are on the line here.

 

Now let us take a look at the offensive side of the football. All of these guys are learning a new offense. As stated in the above paragraph, we have started 2 ROOKIE QB's and a guy with VERY LITTLE experience overall who not to mention didn't have a full TC to even attempt to learn the system. Even still this team has been extremely competitive. The losses of Andy Levitre and Joe D'Alessandris are the most evident for our team from last season to this one. The OL play outside of Cordy Glenn has been inconsistent at best. This is what mainly needs to be upgraded. We need to find at least two quality starters and quality depth for the OL this offseason. If we go into next year with an OL situation as screwed up as this year's then it will be a train wreck all over again. We have two good, if not great, RB's in Fred Jackson and CJ Spiller, but if the OL is not performing at a solid/consistent level then those guys are going to struggle. Some of you may scream, "Well, Doug Marrone was an OL coach in New Orleans and he should be able to fix this immediately!!!" I will say look what he had to work with in New Orleans. Stevie Johnson is the only veteran WR that our corp has. That's it. Everyone else is is young and inexperienced. I have gone on record saying that we should trade Stevie, but only if we are offered a 3rd or better. His inconsistency, drops, and turnovers at crucial moments of games have been EXTREMELY frustrating along with the fact he is often injured. Doesn't mean I don't like him, but I just expected more from our #1 WR. If he is still in the fold when next season rolls around I won't be disappointed because I still like him as a player. I love the young WR's we have in Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin. Both of them have shown flashes this year of what is to come I believe and their future looks bright. I do believe that our TE situation needs an upgrade. Chandler is servicable, but he should be a backup that is on the field for two TE sets and as a redzone threat because of his size. He is easily in the bottom third of the league as far as starting TE's go. Moeaki and Gragg could very well be the answer @ the TE position for us, but we will not know until they get their chance in the offense. Even then their production still depends on the guy who is under Center. Everything I talk about here, minus the dropped passes and fumbles of course, hinge on two things. They hinge on the performance of our OL and QB. It is up to our FO to get the personnel we need, the coaching staff to help them grow as players, and then to put them into situations that they can succeed. We don't have the right pieces yet on our offense in key areas.

 

Now to the defense. Wow, what a difference a year and a DC makes. Everyone will still cry about how we can't stop anyone from running the football, but atleast we have gotten the pass rush right. We went from 18th in the league last year to LEADING THE NFL this season. A healthy Mario Williams and Kyle Williams along with the additions of Jerry Hughes and Manny Lawson have made a difference in getting to the QB. I love Pettine and his attacking style defense. Dareus has also stepped up his level of play this year. It seems we got a steal in the second round with the selection of Kiko Alonso. I also can't believe how reliable McKelvin has been for the most part. The defense is surely headed in the right direction. IF, and I say IF, we can re-sign Byrd this offseason then this defense is one CB and a couple LB's away from being top 5. If we get a couple of guys who can get off of blocks and smack RB's in the mouth @ the LB spot along with another good CB the AFC East is in trouble. I truly believe that. This all hinges on whether we can keep Pettine or not. Part of me worries that he will bolt for another team. Either way, as of right now, this defense looks to be on the rise.

 

Now to the ST. Fire the coach. Start over. Marquise Goodwin is really fast. Dan Carpenter has been a find for us.

 

If you expected us to make the playoffs this year then you were sadly mistaken. If you expected Doug Marrone and Nathaniel Hackett to be able to work miracles with 3 inexperienced QB's (two rookies and one newbie), this OL, and a mainly inexperienced group of WR's in a new system then you were sadly mistaken. If you expected that our rookie/newbie QB's would not have any kind of growing pains this year then you were sadly mistaken. If you thought one Kiko Alonso was enough to take on any and all blockers while still stopping the RB @ or behind the line of scrimmage then you were sadly mistaken. If you thought that unrealistic expectations did not lead to disappointment then you were sadly mistaken. Chin up Bills fans, the future IS looking bright in Buffalo regardless of what all the Nancy's would want you to believe. Happy game day.

I am guilty as charged; however I stand by my contention that Bills are not a winning organization with an ingrained losing culture that may take several years to change. Sorry, Buddy Nix, Russ Brandon and the scouting department have been a total failure - look at are drafts and FA aquisitions. We have several plyers that are above average at best and many players that if/when they finally depart will fade into oblivion like many others. Not sold on Mario Williams!! That being said, I give Marone and Whaley time to fix this dismal NFL team that has not been successful since 1999; I just get tired of this board thinking we are going to the playoffs because we beat the Ravens or Jets.