Interesting comments from Chris Brown

[BrooklynBills]

This draft was conducted by Marrone and Whaley, and it's one of the best drafts the Bills have had in a very long time.

 

Kiko was a "bad character" guy coming out of college, and they picked him second, and he's been (literally) an all star.

 

So, for people to assume that they're going to cut the talent and bring in "high character" guys is not only based on nothing, it actually runs counter to what the team has done so far under this coach/gm.

 

I think there are guys on this team that we just assume are good, because we know their names, and they were the "best of the worst" for the past 4 years.

 

Spiller, Stevie, Fred Jackson, Chandler.

 

Good. Riddance.

 

I'd be happy if Spiller never played another down for the Bills--EJ Manuel is not the problem with the offense. CJ "im too scared to run between the tackles" Spiller is the reason that no one fears our ground game.

 

3 yards and a cloud of dust, combined with EJ's ability to avoid turnovers, and a defense that can get off the field (when the field isn't 30 yards long, like it has been all season), in Buffalo winters, is all this team needs to win the division next year.

 

 

 

lol.

 

4 wins, 6 wins, 6 wins the last 3 years.

 

where's the talent?

 

just because you watch 16 bills games a year and know the team front to back, doesn't mean theyre talented.

 

it just means you know their names.

 

And how are they "regressing". That game against Atlanta was a great football game, the Bills played their asses off, the ball just didn't bounce their way. The Tampa game sucked, yes, but for a team loaded with young players, and a rookie QB, theyre allowed to lose and lose ugly--especially on the road.

 

There is just way too much over reaction by the Bills fanbase following that loss. The season really was "over" when EJ took that hit in Cleveland. The wheels came off during that month when EJ was gone. Hopefully next year is different, but we're going to need some better talent at running back for that to happen. EJ might have s*cked last week against Tampa throwing the ball, but he was also our leading rusher with 29 yards, so... bye bye Spiller.

 

This post is just so spot on.

 

Spiller is constantly hurt and refuses to take hits up the middle. Remember when they talked early in the offseason about giving Spiller the ball all the time. Well, I think they found out real quick just how soft a runner he is. You need a RB who can hit it up between the tackles in the Read-Option. You don't need a pure downhill runner, but a guy who is not afraid to get small and pound it up the middle. Look at how successful McCoy is in Philly this year. He isn't a bounce it outside guy. And you can't build an offense around a RB who is always looking to bounce outside and avoid contact.

 

And thinking on Stevie is that he just isn't that number one top flight WR that you put up with his lack of accountability. If was making catches all over the field and could run every route, you absolutely would. He is a good player with questionable character, questionable leadership, and who has continually not been a clutch performer. In the Carolina game, he literally spoke about how he was worried about dropping that pass. He was wide open! If they want to make a statement and move these guys outta here, I'm honestly all for it.

[4merper4mer]

This post is just so spot on.

 

Spiller is constantly hurt and refuses to take hits up the middle. Remember when they talked early in the offseason about giving Spiller the ball all the time. Well, I think they found out real quick just how soft a runner he is. You need a RB who can hit it up between the tackles in the Read-Option. You don't need a pure downhill runner, but a guy who is not afraid to get small and pound it up the middle. Look at how successful McCoy is in Philly this year. He isn't a bounce it outside guy. And you can't build an offense around a RB who is always looking to bounce outside and avoid contact.

 

And thinking on Stevie is that he just isn't that number one top flight WR that you put up with his lack of accountability. If was making catches all over the field and could run every route, you absolutely would. He is a good player with questionable character, questionable leadership, and who has continually not been a clutch performer. In the Carolina game, he literally spoke about how he was worried about dropping that pass. He was wide open! If they want to make a statement and move these guys outta here, I'm honestly all for it.

 

If they cut Spiller and Johnson it will be confirmation that Dougie has a fragile ego. I wonder if after years of failure people will still defend him. It worked for another Dougie with a frail ego once upon a time.

[BigBuff423]

I probably used the word personality where I should have used the word style. Outside of that, I disagree with what you are saying. Although I personally prefer when someone stands at attention during the national anthem I don't care in which hand that person holds their helmet. I thank you for your service to the country and truly appreciate it. The point I used about the national anthem had little to do with the national anthem itself and more to do with Marrone's style. Does anyone really need to attend a class about how apply Marrone's style to the national anthem? Certainly if they are goofing around during the anthem they need to hear about it from the coach....but a class? Should Mario Williams be cut if he holds his helmet incorrectly?

 

And give me a break about Bellichick please. You think he didn't know Hernandez was a dirt bag before Hernandez killed somebody? Like I said, there is a line and it is ok for be a little different with every coach but cutting talented guys because they aren't your style and waiting for someone to commit murder before letting them go are the opposite ends of the spectrum. Bellichick's displays an arrogance that he can correct anything. Marrone's seems to point at an insecurity about his own ability to be questioned. With a guy like Marshawn Lynch it was somewhere in between Hernandez/Johnson. I can't find too much fault in the Bills letting him go but at the same time I can't say a better group of coaches couldn't have rectified that situation.

 

Again these are just examples. I am more concerned that some nuance in Marrone's style will lead him to dump a talented player. "Discipline" "commitment to team" and "professionalism" are all important and also all subjective. I'm glad Marv didn't view Thurman's earrings as unprofessional because at the time they were certainly unusual. Marv adapted to his surroundings. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see that with Marrone. If he dumps Stevie or CJ you will know he has a screw loose.

 

 

 

A tyrant is fine by me when backed up with results. This "we might cut talented guys after the season" message should not be delivered by the team press agent if the message is really from the coach. It should be delivered by the coach. Did Lombardi ever send out a public relations firm to do his work?

 

"Backed up with results"...after less than one year as HC?? And keeping talented guys regardless of their talent is also a recipe for disaster, IMO...look at the best and most successful teams. They play as TEAMS, not as talented individuals. So Marrone wants men who will play as a TEAM and not just a superstar or great player individually. Honestly, I understand you don't want to see good to great players come to Buffalo and then shuffled off to other teams and do really well for other teams only to see Buffalo struggle year-in-and-year-out, I get it...but at the same time, with all the parity in the NFL, do you really want to see a ship of unruly miscreants (can you say Cowboys?) who have no desire to play as a team but merely pout out of the stadium with time still left on the clock?? I for sure as hell do not! I would rather watch a group of guys who are still talented but play hard, work hard, study hard, and gel as one cohesive unit than a dozen Dez Bryants. The Giants had a great Defense and Eli was under seige the first year they won it all against the Pats, but they came together as a team and did the unthinkable: they beat an undefeated and more talented QB in Brady in the Super Bowl, and did it again a few years later. You're telling me the Ravens were the most talented team in football last year? Or that the year Green Bay won it all, they were the best Defense in the league?? No, they won and lost as a TEAM...there's games when the Offense overshadows a poor showing of a Defense and games when a stingy Defense helps a struggling Offense and games when field position and Special Teams are an important part of a win when the Offense can't get out of its own way or can't go the full 80 yards to score. So, yeah give me a Coach who values team and winning mentality as a TEAM over indivudally talented players, in the long-run, the team mentality will always win more games. Btw, it's not like the BILLS are going to forego getting talented players, see Lawson and Branch and Hughes as talented players who weren't the marquee names some people were looking for but are obviously key pieces in the BILLS limited success thus far.

 

Also, despite the sarcasm in your statement about Lombardi, he didn't have nearly the amount of information exposure and media demands the coaches and teams have today. Let's put that in perspective as well.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Please tell me Marrone is not another my way or the highway guy. That got "fat guy" Pat Williams about 5 pro bowl years.......for the Vikings. London Fletcher got moved out....Spikes....Lynch....and others....all because coaches/GMs whose egos were too big to realize that they are a part of the team.....not the whole team. They all think they are General Patton. Instead of looking inwardly and improving their coaching skills to motivate guys like this, who are inevitable on any roster of 53, they "make examples" of them and assemble a minor league roster. Get the talent....coach the talent. A real malcontent can go, but if you're waiting for 53 perfect individuals you'll be waiting for a while. This guy can't handle the relatively innocent Stevie Johnson? A guy who wants to stay in Buffalo and wants to win here? If he can't do that he should simply resign instead of cutting Johnson to look like some sort of tough guy. If he is unable to handle Stevie his failure is inevitable. Spare us the misery; we've had enough.

 

Marrone looks more and more like Gregg Williams every day. It's too bad really. I think either one could have been a good coach if they had just an ounce of humility. Greggo didn't/doesn't. Marrone???????

 

Oh I dunno.... Let's look at just MLB and mind you I think personnel decisions are more collective than Just Marrone. Brought in Kiko, traded Shep for Hughes. That made the team better at two spots.

 

Then there is safety; moved Aaron Williams to safety where he's getting considerable Probowl votes. Also was very professional about Byrds hold out and then PF.

 

 

Also, if rep and fatigue Analytics or strength and conditioning have anything to do with it, no clue but, I can't remember the IR being less crowded.

 

Next; he empowers the players on the team way too much to be a my way or highway guy. Telling his guys to hold their team mates accountable. Weekly meetings with captains, have team leaders the floor after a big loss.

 

A far as roster moves to come; fact of the matter is there are guys on the team that as good as they are or as hard as they work, they are just not good enough to win consistantly with. Stevie, CJ, TJ, MD99, Pears, moats, Nigel, chandler, all have consistency problems or are just plain not productive enough.

 

Stevie makes too many errors and maybe just will never be the reliable guy they need. Spiller is feast or famine. TJ is all wheels and no hands. MD99 or Kyle? Something is just not quite right with the interior d line. Pears just not good enough, moats not a 3 down backer, Nigel kind of the same, Chandler, the guy is invisible in the red zone where most tight ends make their living...

 

Also both guards are suspect, but that isn't news.

 

Ultimately like you see with championship teams you need to get to where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

 

 

[BrooklynBills]

If they cut Spiller and Johnson it will be confirmation that Dougie has a fragile ego. I wonder if after years of failure people will still defend him. It worked for another Dougie with a frail ego once upon a time.

 

I don't know if being outright cut is the answer, but I could see both being shopped around on trade market and having reduced roles moving forward.

 

 

They chose Marrone to be the head coach. I just want them to go all in with him, even that means that some popular players are lost along the way. Just stick to a vision. if Johnson and Spiller (or anyone else for that matter) aren't in it, then so be it.

[4merper4mer]

"Backed up with results"...after less than one year as HC?? And keeping talented guys regardless of their talent is also a recipe for disaster, IMO...look at the best and most successful teams. They play as TEAMS, not as talented individuals. So Marrone wants men who will play as a TEAM and not just a superstar or great player individually. Honestly, I understand you don't want to see good to great players come to Buffalo and then shuffled off to other teams and do really well for other teams only to see Buffalo struggle year-in-and-year-out, I get it...but at the same time, with all the parity in the NFL, do you really want to see a ship of unruly miscreants (can you say Cowboys?) who have no desire to play as a team but merely pout out of the stadium with time still left on the clock?? I for sure as hell do not! I would rather watch a group of guys who are still talented but play hard, work hard, study hard, and gel as one cohesive unit than a dozen Dez Bryants. The Giants had a great Defense and Eli was under seige the first year they won it all against the Pats, but they came together as a team and did the unthinkable: they beat an undefeated and more talented QB in Brady in the Super Bowl, and did it again a few years later. You're telling me the Ravens were the most talented team in football last year? Or that the year Green Bay won it all, they were the best Defense in the league?? No, they won and lost as a TEAM...there's games when the Offense overshadows a poor showing of a Defense and games when a stingy Defense helps a struggling Offense and games when field position and Special Teams are an important part of a win when the Offense can't get out of its own way or can't go the full 80 yards to score. So, yeah give me a Coach who values team and winning mentality as a TEAM over indivudally talented players, in the long-run, the team mentality will always win more games. Btw, it's not like the BILLS are going to forego getting talented players, see Lawson and Branch and Hughes as talented players who weren't the marquee names some people were looking for but are obviously key pieces in the BILLS limited success thus far.

 

Also, despite the sarcasm in your statement about Lombardi, he didn't have nearly the amount of information exposure and media demands the coaches and teams have today. Let's put that in perspective as well.

 

In concept I don't disagree with anything you said, but there is a line. If a coach can handle a guy like Stevie Johnson, who is far from a real troublemaker, and can't get something from the talent of CJ Spiller, who really doesn't seem like a "me" guy, and the coach know this to the point of cutting them, why not look in the mirror and try to adjust? Guys with major flaws like Bryant, Hernandez and perhaps Rogers and Lynch need to be dealt with but if you need to get rid of guys like Stevie then you need to go back to coaching school.

 

Where is the line? It is different for every coach and that is ok. It just seems this guy's line is on the hyper sensitive end of the spectrum and on top of that he does the messaging through his press agent. If he is asking fans to drink the Kool Aid we should ask him to change the formula.

 

Oh I dunno.... Let's look at just MLB and mind you I think personnel decisions are more collective than Just Marrone. Brought in Kiko, traded Shep for Hughes. That made the team better at two spots.

 

Then there is safety; moved Aaron Williams to safety where he's getting considerable Probowl votes. Also was very professional about Byrds hold out and then PF.

 

 

Also, if rep and fatigue Analytics or strength and conditioning have anything to do with it, no clue but, I can't remember the IR being less crowded.

 

Next; he empowers the players on the team way too much to be a my way or highway guy. Telling his guys to hold their team mates accountable. Weekly meetings with captains, have team leaders the floor after a big loss.

 

A far as roster moves to come; fact of the matter is there are guys on the team that as good as they are or as hard as they work, they are just not good enough to win consistantly with. Stevie, CJ, TJ, MD99, Pears, moats, Nigel, chandler, all have consistency problems or are just plain not productive enough.

 

Stevie makes too many errors and maybe just will never be the reliable guy they need. Spiller is feast or famine. TJ is all wheels and no hands. MD99 or Kyle? Something is just not quite right with the interior d line. Pears just not good enough, moats not a 3 down backer, Nigel kind of the same, Chandler, the guy is invisible in the red zone where most tight ends make their living...

 

Also both guards are suspect, but that isn't news.

 

Ultimately like you see with championship teams you need to get to where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

 

Now we're cutting Dareus too? Awesome. Maybe if we kept Kiko, Lawson, Hughes and Alan Branch and got 49 new players that would be the way to go because those guys make Marrone look good.

 

And Spiller is supposed to be more than feast or famine with a line that by your definition is 60% bad?

 

Chandler's contract is up and all of the other guys you mentioned are marginal talents, backups or both. I don't think Brown was referring to TJ Graham when he discussed potentially surprising cuts.

 

I want Marrone to succeed just like I wanted Greggo to succeed. I see enough parallels that it worries me.

[Cheddar's Dad]

 

 

You could argue though, that a coach like that with winning results on his side gets no complaints from fans, ala Belichick. I understand your point, to not have a tyrant as a HC because of the potential negative consequence it has on morale in the locker room. But then again, Vince Lombardi was not exactly a feel-good HC or Parcells and now Billy Boy...but they all won too...which is my point, I agree that a HC needs to know his men and how to coach them, but it is way too soon to begin to question Marrone's style for the positive or the negative. And, as of right now, there's been no ostensible demonstration of Marrone choosing character over talent. Rogers was passed over by all the teams and it was the BILLS who gave him a chance, they didn't like what they saw - for whatever reason- but they gave him a chance, knowing his questionable character issues. That to me says they're willing to overlook some indiscretions, but they want to see heart and willingness to mature. Hopefully the kid has done that and will continue to do that, but you don't know it wasn't the BILLS cutting him that got him to wake up a bit and realize talent is only one third of what is required in the NFL. Hard work and a team mentality are the other parts of the whole.

 

I would add one more thing. There is a story in the news this morning about the death of Stevie's mother and how Marrone, upon learning of her passing, spent hours talking with Stevie and giving him the choice of whether or not to play on Sunday. Stevie described it as a kind of father to son talk. Marrone a tyrant? Doesn't look that way to me.

[Cheddar's Dad]

 

Does anyone really need to attend a class about how apply Marrone's style to the national anthem?

 

Should Mario Williams be cut if he holds his helmet incorrectly?

 

You think he didn't know Hernandez was a dirt bag before Hernandez killed somebody?

 

Marrone's seems to point at an insecurity about his own ability to be questioned.

 

Again these are just examples. I am more concerned that some nuance in Marrone's style will lead him to dump a talented player.

 

Discipline, commitment to team, and professionalism are all important and also all subjective.

 

 

Question 1. Maybe yes. He's dealing with a lot of young men and trying to develop team first attitudes. Lining up in standing formation with one's helmit in a certain hand, when done by all team members, is an indication of a well drilled unit.

 

Question 2. Certainly not but he would look out of sinc with his team mates.

 

Question 3. No. He didn't know. I think Hernandez had Belichick and Kraft completely fooled.

 

Statement 4. I don't think Marrone is insecure about anything. Marrone is the product of having worked for 5 prominant head coached on the college leve; Jim Donnan, Georgia, Phillip Fulmer, Tennessee, Barry Gallup, Northwestern, Bill Schmitz, U.S. Coast Guard Academy, and George O'Leary, Ga. Tech. He worked under two prominant head coaches at the pro level; Herm Edwards and Sean Payton. The coaching principles is has implemented with the Bills are based on all that he learned throughout his coaching career.

 

Commitment to team, discipline, and professionalism are not subjective. If you've joined the work force, I'm sure you've seen these types. Type one is the guy who is very talented mentally. He is assigned to work on a project and is nearing completion. But he has taken longer that his boss might expect. He watches the clock and when it hits 5PM, he is one of the first out of the door. He could have stayed and worked a little longer but took the attitude that it can wait for tomorrow. Then there's the guy that doesn't have the mental talent of the first guy but he makes up for it for staying later and working harder and he gets his project finished before the first guy. Committment to team, self discipline, and professionalism are things that supervisors objectively see on a daily basis.

 

 

[Rockinon]

I think a lot of people on this board go overboard with opinions regarding Stevie. I agree he has questionable leadership abilities and is sometimes immature. What I do not agree with is all of the assumptions about his character. Young men who are growing into high character individuals get there taking different paths. Just because Stevie's personality is a bit over the top for my taste, I really don't think he has is a low character guy. I believe in him and support him even though I don't always agree with him.

[Leelee Phoenix]

Commitment to team, discipline, and professionalism are not subjective. If you've joined the work force, I'm sure you've seen these types. Type one is the guy who is very talented mentally. He is assigned to work on a project and is nearing completion. But he has taken longer that his boss might expect. He watches the clock and when it hits 5PM, he is one of the first out of the door. He could have stayed and worked a little longer but took the attitude that it can wait for tomorrow. Then there's the guy that doesn't have the mental talent of the first guy but he makes up for it for staying later and working harder and he gets his project finished before the first guy. Committment to team, self discipline, and professionalism are things that supervisors objectively see on a daily basis.

Cool story, and I know that's a factor in any work environment.

 

Where I have an issue with Marrone is that this is ALL he talks about, while it really should be kept in-house. Do you have any idea which players are the ones that "work hard"? No. I don't either. I assume that the vast majority of NFL players are doing what they think is best to perform at their best. I assume that every NFL team demands that their players "work hard", there's million dollar jobs at stake for everyone in an extremely competitive field, it's serious business. I assume that every player wants to win, beyond whatever team pride and such, if they win, they get more money and prestige.

 

Thus whenever I hear Marrone talk, it's boring meaningless claptrap. If I had to listen to him everyday, he'd be Charlie Brown's teacher to me. He's not coaching children.

[3rdand12]

Cool story, and I know that's a factor in any work environment.

 

Where I have an issue with Marrone is that this is ALL he talks about, while it really should be kept in-house. Do you have any idea which players are the ones that "work hard"? No. I don't either. I assume that the vast majority of NFL players are doing what they think is best to perform at their best. I assume that every NFL team demands that their players "work hard", there's million dollar jobs at stake for everyone in an extremely competitive field, it's serious business. I assume that every player wants to win, beyond whatever team pride and such, if they win, they get more money and prestige.

 

Thus whenever I hear Marrone talk, it's boring meaningless claptrap. If I had to listen to him everyday, he'd be Charlie Brown's teacher to me. He's not coaching children.

is it possible what he says to "us" is degrees different than how he speaks and treats his players ?

I have never thought press conferences were really very useful for insight. Part of the head coaching responsibility of course but really just PR/PC .

it always been blah blah blah , blah blah for me regardless of coach. except Hackett . he is on drugs or something !

[4merper4mer]

Question 1. Maybe yes. He's dealing with a lot of young men and trying to develop team first attitudes. Lining up in standing formation with one's helmit in a certain hand, when done by all team members, is an indication of a well drilled unit.

 

Question 2. Certainly not but he would look out of sinc with his team mates.

 

Question 3. No. He didn't know. I think Hernandez had Belichick and Kraft completely fooled.

 

Statement 4. I don't think Marrone is insecure about anything. Marrone is the product of having worked for 5 prominant head coached on the college leve; Jim Donnan, Georgia, Phillip Fulmer, Tennessee, Barry Gallup, Northwestern, Bill Schmitz, U.S. Coast Guard Academy, and George O'Leary, Ga. Tech. He worked under two prominant head coaches at the pro level; Herm Edwards and Sean Payton. The coaching principles is has implemented with the Bills are based on all that he learned throughout his coaching career.

 

Commitment to team, discipline, and professionalism are not subjective. If you've joined the work force, I'm sure you've seen these types. Type one is the guy who is very talented mentally. He is assigned to work on a project and is nearing completion. But he has taken longer that his boss might expect. He watches the clock and when it hits 5PM, he is one of the first out of the door. He could have stayed and worked a little longer but took the attitude that it can wait for tomorrow. Then there's the guy that doesn't have the mental talent of the first guy but he makes up for it for staying later and working harder and he gets his project finished before the first guy. Committment to team, self discipline, and professionalism are things that supervisors objectively see on a daily basis.

 

1. It is his call, he's the boss; I think the odds of it working as a being a significant team builder are low where the odds it will be the first straw on the camel's back, are moderate.

 

2. Ok.

 

3. Come on. Hernandez has the IQ of a geranium. He had ultra-genius Bellichick fooled? Give me a break. They have Brady on camera talking to Tebow at midfield briefly discussing Brady's troubles keeping Hernandez and Spikes in line and Bellichick had no idea? That link was up and then down very quickly. Maybe I can see Kraft being fooled as he is a little removed from direct contact and seems drunk often.

 

4. Marrone has seemed defensive and insecure on multiple occasions if you ask me. The whole Williams injury/absence thing comes to mind among others. That's ok for a first year coach as long as he learns and adapts. Lots of people have had great mentors and turned out to be just ok or not so great. Marrone would not be the first.

 

5. Judgement of commitment to team, discipline and professionalism is absolutely subjective. There is no test where you can score 0-100. Some judgements are easy and would be agreed upon by almost everyone. Some are more difficult and being subjective is a big part of a coaches job. Although I have seen workers of the type you describe, I have also seen managers tied not only to results, but to ensuring that their workers achieve these results in a certain way. This can be healthy or unhealthy. When done in a teaching mode, it can help a young player/worker. When done because the manager only knows one way, it is bad because it minimizes chances for success. If Marrone judged that Aaron Hernandez' murder arrest was enough to cut him, practically all would agree. If EJ Manuel forgot to brush his teeth before practice and was cut for it, practically all would agree this was bad judgement. There is a lot of in between. Cutting SJ because he has a quirky personality, in my view, would display an inflexibility and insecurity that would not bode well for Marrone's future. It is a matter of where lines are drawn.

[Cheddar's Dad]

 

13. Come on. Hernandez has the IQ of a geranium. He had ultra-genius Bellichick fooled? Give me a break. They have Brady on camera talking to Tebow at midfield briefly discussing Brady's troubles keeping Hernandez and Spikes in line and Bellichick had no idea? That link was up and then down very quickly. Maybe I can see Kraft being fooled as he is a little removed from direct contact and seems drunk often.

 

4. Marrone has seemed defensive and insecure on multiple occasions if you ask me. The whole Williams injury/absence thing comes to mind among others. That's ok for a first year coach as long as he learns and adapts. Lots of people have had great mentors and turned out to be just ok or not so great. Marrone would not be the first.

 

5. Judgement of commitment to team, discipline and professionalism is absolutely subjective. There is no test where you can score 0-100. Some judgements are easy and would be agreed upon by almost everyone. Some are more difficult and being subjective is a big part of a coaches job. Although I have seen workers of the type you describe, I have also seen managers tied not only to results, but to ensuring that their workers achieve these results in a certain way. This can be healthy or unhealthy. When done in a teaching mode, it can help a young player/worker. When done because the manager only knows one way, it is bad because it minimizes chances for success. If Marrone judged that Aaron Hernandez' murder arrest was enough to cut him, practically all would agree. If EJ Manuel forgot to brush his teeth before practice and was cut for it, practically all would agree this was bad judgement. There is a lot of in between. Cutting SJ because he has a quirky personality, in my view, would display an inflexibility and insecurity that would not bode well for Marrone's future. It is a matter of where lines are drawn.

 

3. Where have you found Hernandez's IQ scores?? Hernandez had a rep in college regarding gang membership. That is why he lasted till the 4th round of the draft. I recall a story when, during his rookie year at training camp, Hernandez asked Welker about something. Welker brushed him off in a way Hernandez did not appreciate and Hernandez then threateded to kill Welker. In recent years, however, Hernandez, according to Kraft, seemed to straighten his life out. I don't know how that was measured. Maybe he spent more time with team mates. Maybe he got involved with charity organizations. Whatever it was, it was sufficient to cause Kraft and Belichick to believe he had changed and was trust worthy and that resulted in a large new contract. If you want to know the extent to which Kraft and Belichick came to trust Hernandez check out the size of that contract.

 

I have an acquaintance who has been married for 30 some years to a man who travels a lot. My acquaintance recently discovered that her husband, for several years, has been having an affair when he is out of town. It was a shock, a complete surprise. People can successfuly lead double lives for some time until they do something that leads to discovery of the truth. Sad but true. Was my acquaintance fooled because she's dim witted? She has an extremely high IQ and a photographic memory. It can happen to anyone.

 

4. I think you misinterprete the situation with Marrone and the Williams absence. That's easy to do since some in the media thought he seemed a bit thin skinned and said so on TV and in print. Looks like you ate it up.

 

I don't think Marrone is thin skinned. I think he was somewhat unprepared to answer specific questions about Williams and didn't want that short lived inability to turn into a major distraction. He learned from that incident. You may have seen that, at his most recent after game interview, he had an assistant stand by to answer injury questions that Marrone may not have been fully briefed about.

 

5. Again, I disagree. I was in the Pittsburg area last month. The Steelers were losing and there was talk that Rothlisberger was not preparing himself well enough. Rothlisberger replied that no one knows how much time I spent preparing for games. I thought, that's not true. It is often said of highly accomplished players that they are the first in the training facility in the morning and the last to leave at night. People notice that. It's an observable thing. Teams insert different plays into their game plan each week based on scouting reports and game film study. Players are then expected to know their responsibilities relative to the new plays. If a player enters the practive field and doesn't know those rsponsibilities, teammates and coaches notice that perhaps that player didn't take the time to study before he came to practice. That an observable thing. Nothing subjective about it. That player was'ne ready for practice.

 

One final thing. Why do you think Stevie will be cut? You keep going back to that. He's not having a great year and is working on a large contract. But with having to work with two rookie QBs and a third that was 3rd string with Detroit at the start of this year. Team management will. I think, cut him some slack.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

I would add one more thing. There is a story in the news this morning about the death of Stevie's mother and how Marrone, upon learning of her passing, spent hours talking with Stevie and giving him the choice of whether or not to play on Sunday. Stevie described it as a kind of father to son talk. Marrone a tyrant? Doesn't look that way to me.

 

Do you have a link to that? It sounds like an interesting read.

 

I read a quote from Graham after the game basically saying that sometimes what Stevie says or how his antics come across seem selfish but in the locker room they feel he is a great team mate. For what ever that is worth.

[BigBuff423]

I would add one more thing. There is a story in the news this morning about the death of Stevie's mother and how Marrone, upon learning of her passing, spent hours talking with Stevie and giving him the choice of whether or not to play on Sunday. Stevie described it as a kind of father to son talk. Marrone a tyrant? Doesn't look that way to me.

 

I agree...but I never called Marrone a tryant, I said I understand why people don't want a tyrant for a football coach...unless he gets results and one partial year is far too soon to determine one way or the other. I like Marrone, not crazy about Hackett, but like Marrone and what he's doing. I'm not a Marrone apologist per se, but I like what he's done the message he's sending to the team. I merely posed the devil's advocate argument to a previous poster (don't remember who, sorry) that said that Marrone should not be a "it's my way or the highway" type of coach and adjust to his players, and my counter argument to that is the NFL history books are full of NFL Head Coaches who've taken that same approach and done very well with winning and that whether Marrone should or should not be such a coach remains to be seen in his results, and one year to grade a coach based upon results is just too soon. All in all it comes down to this: before we crucify or anoint Marrone, let's see where this team stands at least after next season, at a minimum and maybe even after year 3, despite our anxious desire to see results now...you just can't hold a coach to immediate results when under normal circumstances a rebuild / re-boot takes more than one year. And IF you say KC, you definitely weren't paying attention to what KC was doing in years leading up to Andy Reid's hire...their cupboard was stocked full of talent

 

You could argue though, that a coach like that with winning results on his side gets no complaints from fans, ala Belichick. I understand your point, to not have a tyrant as a HC because of the potential negative consequence it has on morale in the locker room. But then again, Vince Lombardi was not exactly a feel-good HC or Parcells and now Billy Boy...but they all won too...which is my point, I agree that a HC needs to know his men and how to coach them, but it is way too soon to begin to question Marrone's style for the positive or the negative. And, as of right now, there's been no ostensible demonstration of Marrone choosing character over talent. Rogers was passed over by all the teams and it was the BILLS who gave him a chance, they didn't like what they saw - for whatever reason- but they gave him a chance, knowing his questionable character issues. That to me says they're willing to overlook some indiscretions, but they want to see heart and willingness to mature. Hopefully the kid has done that and will continue to do that, but you don't know it wasn't the BILLS cutting him that got him to wake up a bit and realize talent is only one third of what is required in the NFL. Hard work and a team mentality are the other parts of the whole.

 

This was my original statement....just for refreshing the recollection's sake

 

You could argue though, that a coach like that with winning results on his side gets no complaints from fans, ala Belichick. I understand your point, to not have a tyrant as a HC because of the potential negative consequence it has on morale in the locker room. But then again, Vince Lombardi was not exactly a feel-good HC or Parcells and now Billy Boy...but they all won too...which is my point, I agree that a HC needs to know his men and how to coach them, but it is way too soon to begin to question Marrone's style for the positive or the negative. And, as of right now, there's been no ostensible demonstration of Marrone choosing character over talent. Rogers was passed over by all the teams and it was the BILLS who gave him a chance, they didn't like what they saw - for whatever reason- but they gave him a chance, knowing his questionable character issues. That to me says they're willing to overlook some indiscretions, but they want to see heart and willingness to mature. Hopefully the kid has done that and will continue to do that, but you don't know it wasn't the BILLS cutting him that got him to wake up a bit and realize talent is only one third of what is required in the NFL. Hard work and a team mentality are the other parts of the whole.

 

This was my original statement....just for refreshing the recollection's sake

[Cheddar's Dad]

 

 

Do you have a link to that? It sounds like an interesting read.

 

I read a quote from Graham after the game basically saying that sometimes what Stevie says or how his antics come across seem selfish but in the locker room they feel he is a great team mate. For what ever that is worth.

 

If you page down on the TWOBILLSDRIVE home page, I think you'll find it. You can also go to BUFFALOBILLS.COM and watch a video of Stevie talking about it.

[4merper4mer]

3. Where have you found Hernandez's IQ scores??

 

4. I think you misinterprete the situation with Marrone and the Williams absence. That's easy to do since some in the media thought he seemed a bit thin skinned and said so on TV and in print. Looks like you ate it up.

 

 

5. Again, I disagree. I was in the Pittsburg area last month. The Steelers were losing and there was talk that Rothlisberger was not preparing himself well enough. Rothlisberger replied that no one knows how much time I spent preparing for games. I thought, that's not true. It is often said of highly accomplished players that they are the first in the training facility in the morning and the last to leave at night. People notice that. It's an observable thing. Teams insert different plays into their game plan each week based on scouting reports and game film study. Players are then expected to know their responsibilities relative to the new plays. If a player enters the practive field and doesn't know those rsponsibilities, teammates and coaches notice that perhaps that player didn't take the time to study before he came to practice. That an observable thing. Nothing subjective about it. That player was'ne ready for practice.

 

One final thing. Why do you think Stevie will be cut? You keep going back to that. He's not having a great year and is working on a large contract. But with having to work with two rookie QBs and a third that was 3rd string with Detroit at the start of this year. Team management will. I think, cut him some slack.

 

3. A geranium would have less left evidence behind than Hernandez did. Kraft was simply in CYA mode.

 

4. Ok. A simple "He will return when he is physically able but there is no underlying issue with his commitment to the team" would have sufficed. Instead it was a 5 minute back and forth.

 

5. I hope Stevie is NOT cut and if he is my assumption will be that the coaches made a bad judgement. It has been speculated on multiple occasions and Brown only fueled that fire.

 

Observable and objective are two different things. I can observe a rock concert and think it was great and you might think it stank. The job of a coach is to make these subjective judgments. The temperature today in Aruba is 88 today. That is objective.