Interesting comments from Chris Brown

[jjmac]

 

 

Freeman was playing terrible football. Is Stevie playing terribly? Chandler? Or whomever you want cut? I don't think they have been very good, but they haven't been awful.

 

Offensively, the biggest problem has been the QB play followed by the inability of the OL to dominate the LOS. But it's not like they have much invested in the OL so I am not sure what can be expected of guys like Pears, Urbik or Legursky....they were picked up off the unemployment line.

 

Not really sure how your example applies.

 

Shouldn't it be the OL first?

[OldTimer1960]

 

 

Freeman was playing terrible football. Is Stevie playing terribly? Chandler? Or whomever you want cut? I don't think they have been very good, but they haven't been awful.

 

Offensively, the biggest problem has been the QB play followed by the inability of the OL to dominate the LOS. But it's not like they have much invested in the OL so I am not sure what can be expected of guys like Pears, Urbik or Legursky....they were picked up off the unemployment line.

 

Not really sure how your example applies.

 

It was not meant to suggest that they should cut anyone in particular, rather to illustrate that there is precedence from another team moving on from a talented player who didn't mesh with what the coaching staff wanted. I believe that Freeman was cut more for his attitude and effort than for poor play. (I believe) if Freeman had been working hard and doing what the coaches asked, he would still be in Tampa - they'd have ridden out his poor play because he clearly has a lot of talent.

 

To the Bills, I don't know if there are players who haven't bought in to the program, but if so, I could support trading/releasing them

[YoloinOhio]

It was not meant to suggest that they should cut anyone in particular, rather to illustrate that there is precedence from another team moving on from a talented player who didn't mesh with what the coaching staff wanted. I believe that Freeman was cut more for his attitude and effort than for poor play. (I believe) if Freeman had been working hard and doing what the coaches asked, he would still be in Tampa - they'd have ridden out his poor play because he clearly has a lot of talent.

 

To the Bills, I don't know if there are players who haven't bought in to the program, but if so, I could support trading/releasing them

Absolutely. Da'Rick Rogers was one of them.

[Beerball]

 

 

He hasn't done it yet. He is merely relaying a message through the team press mouthpiece that he will. I assume this will be after the season. Which means 1. He is willing to cut talented players because he is unable to adapt his coaching style and 2. He pre-announces this through a back channel rather than addressing it himself. Pardon me if that doesn't strike me as a winning formula.

What would you prefer? He has taken one season and he's watched. If there are players who are not committed or productive then how long would you like him to wait? Remember, productivity...how many really productive players are there on this team? Can't win without productivity.

 

Addressing it himself? Go listen to his press conferences.

 

Please define your winning formula.

 

I'd much rather have this approach vs. Greggo's or Gaileys. Gregg jettisoned talent before seeing people play a down. Gailey had to have his offensive toy and allowed his DC to switch the team to a new alignment even though they didn't have the talent to support it.

[CSBill]

I posted this in the pre-season:

 

For what it's worth, I have an "inside source" (the best friend of one of the vets on the team), and he told me that there's a feeling amongst the vets that Marrone is somewhat over the top in terms of being hands on and controlling. The one example cited was that the Bills had a lesson during TC in how they were all supposed to stand during the national anthem (i.e., hold your helmet in this hand, put your feet like this, put your hand like this, etc.).

 

John Wooden did stuff like that, basically teaching his players how to be respectful, smarter, and how to act like men. It seemed to have turned out well-enough for him.

 

That being said, I'm way more concerned about his ability to judge and keep talent. The Bills seem to lead the league (maybe it's just our limited and myopic perspective) in getting rid of, or letting go, All-Pro types (Williams, Lynch, Peters, Spikes, etc.). Coaches are always smarter when they have better players. So I do hope that he can figure who the best players are and do what it takes to keep them—so we can build, not start over, each year.

[OldTimer1960]

Absolutely. Da'Rick Rogers was one of them.

 

1. No question that Rogers has talent, but he clearly wasn't productive in the preseason and there were suggestions that he was not working hard in camp. A new coach who is try to instill a strong work ethic on his new team really could not keep Rogers around and send the message that it's ok not to try or not to be productive if you have talent. That would undermine what he is trying to build into the team

2. Rogers has had exactly 1 very good game in the NFL, not enough to say he now "gets it"

3. Even if Rogers goes on to have a good career, who is to say that he would have done so if he had not been humbled by being cut.

4. Even his college team deemed Rogers too big a headache to keep around and he WAS productive there.

5. Every team in the NFL knew of Rogers' talent, yet not one thought he was worth even a 7th round gamble

 

Yes, it is possible that Rogers will go on to have a good career, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Marrone was wrong to cut him.

 

 

[Thurmal34]

The C on his chest. Hes a team captain and needs to lead by example.

 

Stevie Johnson is not a team captain.

[4merper4mer]

What would you prefer? He has taken one season and he's watched. If there are players who are not committed or productive then how long would you like him to wait? Remember, productivity...how many really productive players are there on this team? Can't win without productivity.

 

Addressing it himself? Go listen to his press conferences.

 

Please define your winning formula.

 

I'd much rather have this approach vs. Greggo's or Gaileys. Gregg jettisoned talent before seeing people play a down. Gailey had to have his offensive toy and allowed his DC to switch the team to a new alignment even though they didn't have the talent to support it.

 

 

This approach is Greggo's approach IMHO. So what if he takes a year and determines talented guys have to go because they don't match his personality instead of doing it day one? There is no way he will ever be able to assemble 53 Mini-Marrones and be successful. He has to be able to adapt. To run Chris Brown out there to basically say we will be getting rid of talented players between this year and next and not follow it up with....but they will be replaced by equally talented players....is not something that makes me feel like he understands the goal of winning. It is more like his goal is establishing his own authority.

 

Look, maybe people are reading too much into this and it was really just Brown's opinion. But to suggest the Bills will get better by purging SJ and CJ? I realize nobody named names but those are both plausible and have been widely speculated, especially SJ. Stevie is a talented guy and his talent is unique. That can help a team win. If CJ is purged, Marrone ought to be shipped to some asylum.

 

My approach would be to continuously examine the players but also myself. If i can't get the talent to perform, then I had better adapt my style. If there is a true malcontent, so be it, he is gone. But I need to evaluate that guy on his impact to the team, not his impact to some empire I am building.

 

If there are several guys I see as talented malcontents, then I am doing something wrong, because I can't reasonably expect their replacements to be equally talented and fit my mold. The solution to that is most certainly not having Chris Brown notify the fans that we are getting rid of good players in favor of guys who will do what I say.

[bobobonators]

 

 

I wouldn't be so certain. 5 catches for 54 yards today, and he was constantly open and made good catches. He and EJ seem to have a nice rapport. It's a position that can be upgraded, for sure, and his blocking is not very good, but he's a nice target to have. I can see him sticking around to bring a young guy along -- whether it's Gragg or somebody new.

 

Though he had a solid game yeaterday, it remains a position that can be upgraded in the off season. Chandler is a FA too. Perfect time to wish him well and upgrade.

 

Positions we should upgrade at: lb, LG, TE, WR

[Cheddar's Dad]

 

So what if he takes a year and determines talented guys have to go because they don't match his personality instead of doing it day one?

 

There is no way he will ever be able to assemble 53 Mini-Marrones and be successful.

 

Look, maybe people are reading too much into this and it was really just Brown's opinion. But to suggest the Bills will get better by purging SJ and CJ?

 

If there are several guys I see as talented malcontents, then I am doing something wrong, because I can't reasonably expect their replacements to be equally talented and fit my mold.

 

The solution to that is most certainly not having Chris Brown notify the fans that we are getting rid of good players in favor of guys who will do what I say.

 

Please tell me where Brown ever said that TALENTED guys have to be let go because they don't match Marrone's personality. That bad reading is yours. There are players on this team that lack the talent to be part of a championship team. I think that is what Brown was talking about. It's not about matching Marrone's personality. Its about getting talented players that have top grade work ethic and show complete dedication to TEAM.

 

Marrone is not looking for mini Marrones. He wants to see Fred Jackson style work ethic and dedication at every starting position on offense and defense.

 

The idea of purging S.J. and C.J did not come from Brown. It is speculation found here posted by fans who are frustrated and angry and have no idea of what Brown was talking about.

 

How would you feel about malcontents who are malcontents because they lack the talent to perform as Marrone wants them to perform. Wouldn't you want them replaced by players that do have the talent to satisfy Marrone. Or would you prefer that Marrone retain those players and continue to field a bad team?

 

Brown never said we are getting rid of good players in favor of players that will do as Marrone says. That, again, is you bad interpretation. Marrone is the Head Coach paid to field a winning team. He has a philosophy of how to build that team and he knows the kind of players and what talents they must have to help him do that. Cutting players that don't have the talent and/or attitude to contribute to winning is what building a winning team is all about. Give him a chance to build that team.

 

 

[BobChalmers]

I sort of remember that and honestly at the time I was ok with it because we all have to learn and adapt. I was hopeful Marrone would. Now he is starting to look like Greggo 2.0 and has the Soviet media aka Brown running interference for him.

I posted this in the pre-season:

 

For what it's worth, I have an "inside source" (the best friend of one of the vets on the team), and he told me that there's a feeling amongst the vets that Marrone is somewhat over the top in terms of being hands on and controlling. The one example cited was that the Bills had a lesson during TC in how they were all supposed to stand during the national anthem (i.e., hold your helmet in this hand, put your feet like this, put your hand like this, etc.).

Please tell me Marrone is not another my way or the highway guy. That got "fat guy" Pat Williams about 5 pro bowl years.......for the Vikings. London Fletcher got moved out....Spikes....Lynch....and others....all because coaches/GMs whose egos were too big to realize that they are a part of the team.....not the whole team. They all think they are General Patton. Instead of looking inwardly and improving their coaching skills to motivate guys like this, who are inevitable on any roster of 53, they "make examples" of them and assemble a minor league roster. Get the talent....coach the talent. A real malcontent can go, but if you're waiting for 53 perfect individuals you'll be waiting for a while. This guy can't handle the relatively innocent Stevie Johnson? A guy who wants to stay in Buffalo and wants to win here? If he can't do that he should simply resign instead of cutting Johnson to look like some sort of tough guy. If he is unable to handle Stevie his failure is inevitable. Spare us the misery; we've had enough.

 

Marrone looks more and more like Gregg Williams every day. It's too bad really. I think either one could have been a good coach if they had just an ounce of humility. Greggo didn't/doesn't. Marrone???????

 

Comparing Marrone to Gregg "Kobra Kai" Williams is utter nonsense.

 

Marrone - NFL playing experience followed by assisting on multiple successful NFL teams and respect from multiple players and H/C's around the league - the guy's been part of NFL success at multiple stops.

 

Greggo - HS experience, followed by an "in" with a friend onto the Titans staff, working his way quickly up to DC then riding top talent and dirty play to a stupid head coaching hire by the Bills that no other team repeated.

 

Maybe the players whining about Marrone's attitude are the ones who need to go because they aren't all-in on winning?

Edited December 16, 2013 by BobChalmers

[4merper4mer]

Please tell me where Brown ever said that TALENTED guys have to be let go because they don't match Marrone's personality. That bad reading is yours. There are players on this team that lack the talent to be part of a championship team. I think that is what Brown was talking about. It's not about matching Marrone's personality. Its about getting talented players that have top grade work ethic and show complete dedication to TEAM.

 

 

From the original post in this thread:

 

CB: As I said on the radio earlier this week, there are roster changes on every NFL team every year, but I foresee changes here in Buffalo that will surprise some people in the offseason. This first year, Marrone has been very thorough in making assessments of the players on this roster and whether he can win with them his way.

 

If he feels he cannot they will not be here long term. And let me be clear in saying what can earn a player a ticket out of here sooner rather than later goes far beyond athletic ability. Work ethic, commitment to team and professionalism are all qualities that are coveted by Marrone and his staff too.

 

In fact in some cases lacking in one of those three areas might lead to a player dismissal (cut or traded) even if said player has the ability to help them win.

 

That is Chris Brown speaking, not Marrone, but it clearly states he want guys to do it "his way" and talent is not the only factor. Don't get me wrong, true malcontents should be cut loose, but it all depends where the coach draws the line. Too far to one side and you have an unruly locker room, too far to the other side and you deplete your team of talent. This crap about "my way" is what worries me. That sounds like Greggo.

 

Work ethic, commitment to team and professionalism are all very desirable. They are also subjectively judged. As one other poster pointed out, Marrone had a class on how to stand for the national anthem. If a player holds his helmet in the wrong hand for the anthem, is that unprofessional and a ticket out of town? We don't know where the line is drawn for Marrone. I did not read it poorly, you did.

 

If Marrone draws these lines in the right places, that will make him a good coach long term; if not we are digging a deep hole again. I hope he shows more flexibility than rigidity but so far what I hear from him makes me worried.

[Leelee Phoenix]

The idea of purging S.J. and C.J did not come from Brown. It is speculation found here posted by fans who are frustrated and angry and have no idea of what Brown was talking about.

It's more than speculation since it came from the Bills PR man. It was a clear message to someone, probably Stevie. I think that's a poor way to handle things, and definitely not a TEAM way of handling things from Mr. Work Hard.

[4merper4mer]

Comparing Marrone to Gregg "Kobra Kai" Williams is utter nonsense.

 

Marrone - NFL playing experience followed by assisting on multiple successful NFL teams and respect from multiple players and H/C's around the league - the guy's been part of NFL success at multiple stops.

 

Greggo - HS experience, followed by an "in" with a friend onto the Titans staff, working his way quickly up to DC then riding top talent and dirty play to a stupid head coaching hire by the Bills that no other team repeated.

 

Maybe the players whining about Marrone's attitude are the ones who need to go because they aren't all-in on winning?

 

I hope Marrone is not like Williams but people can reach the same destination following different paths.

 

What players are whining? All I hear in the press is back channel crap about Marrone flexing his muscles.

[Cheddar's Dad]

 

From the original post in this thread:

 

That is Chris Brown speaking, not Marrone, but it clearly states he want guys to do it "his way" and talent is not the only factor. Don't get me wrong, true malcontents should be cut loose, but it all depends where the coach draws the line. Too far to one side and you have an unruly locker room, too far to the other side and you deplete your team of talent. This crap about "my way" is what worries me. That sounds like Greggo.

 

Work ethic, commitment to team and professionalism are all very desirable. They are also subjectively judged. As one other poster pointed out, Marrone had a class on how to stand for the national anthem. If a player holds his helmet in the wrong hand for the anthem, is that unprofessional and a ticket out of town? We don't know where the line is drawn for Marrone. I did not read it poorly, you did.

 

If Marrone draws these lines in the right places, that will make him a good coach long term; if not we are digging a deep hole again. I hope he shows more flexibility than rigidity but so far what I hear from him makes me worried.

 

What is his way and does it have anything to do with personality? Or is it about work ethic, commitment to team, and professionalism, coach and player traits that Marrone knows can produce winning teams.

 

If you want to call that "personality" you're way off base. Has there ever been a winning coach that has not valued those traits. If you say Marrone's looking for those traits equates to his personality, then I would say that Lombardy, Belichick, Knoll, and all of the SB winning coaches were "infected" with the same personality. Why in the world should that worry you or any Bills fan????

 

Regarding concern that Marrone has his team stand at attention during the singing of the national anthem. How silly is that. Isn't that a sign of professionalism and team discipline? Isn't that attending to every detail. Conversely, figeting around and not attending to the singing of the national anthem is a sign of lack of personal discipline and perhaps, disrespect. Look around you at the next game. Not only do people stand at attention, many of them hold their hands over their hearts and sing. I must say that as a Viet Nam era vet, having gone through military style discipline training, having had friends die in that war, I am among those that stand and proudly sing.

 

Belichick prohibits players from airing dirty laundry about the Patriots. He demands discipline and if he does not get it, that player is usually gone. Isn't that a little like what Marrone and Brown are saying and don't you really think that's a good thing???

[tennesseeboy]

marrone will be under the gun next year to get to the playoffs and he needs Mario, Byrd, and Spiller if he's going to do that. He's probably going to get a tight end in the draft, so Chandler will be gone. I think Stevie may be gone as well. I suspect the offense will get a thorough going over and that he'll perhaps be looking for an outside linebacker or two. Marrone faced a situation this year where 4 or fewer wins would have been an F, four to six a D, six to ehight a C and eight to 9 a B. He's probably going into the next season with a D and major improvement expected.

[CardinalScotts]

Chris Brown creating a story to have us believe next year will be awesome. Hype to sell tickets.

 

certainly a lot to look forward to

[BigBuff423]

Please tell me Marrone is not another my way or the highway guy. That got "fat guy" Pat Williams about 5 pro bowl years.......for the Vikings. London Fletcher got moved out....Spikes....Lynch....and others....all because coaches/GMs whose egos were too big to realize that they are a part of the team.....not the whole team. They all think they are General Patton. Instead of looking inwardly and improving their coaching skills to motivate guys like this, who are inevitable on any roster of 53, they "make examples" of them and assemble a minor league roster. Get the talent....coach the talent. A real malcontent can go, but if you're waiting for 53 perfect individuals you'll be waiting for a while. This guy can't handle the relatively innocent Stevie Johnson? A guy who wants to stay in Buffalo and wants to win here? If he can't do that he should simply resign instead of cutting Johnson to look like some sort of tough guy. If he is unable to handle Stevie his failure is inevitable. Spare us the misery; we've had enough.

 

Marrone looks more and more like Gregg Williams every day. It's too bad really. I think either one could have been a good coach if they had just an ounce of humility. Greggo didn't/doesn't. Marrone???????

 

You could argue though, that a coach like that with winning results on his side gets no complaints from fans, ala Belichick. I understand your point, to not have a tyrant as a HC because of the potential negative consequence it has on morale in the locker room. But then again, Vince Lombardi was not exactly a feel-good HC or Parcells and now Billy Boy...but they all won too...which is my point, I agree that a HC needs to know his men and how to coach them, but it is way too soon to begin to question Marrone's style for the positive or the negative. And, as of right now, there's been no ostensible demonstration of Marrone choosing character over talent. Rogers was passed over by all the teams and it was the BILLS who gave him a chance, they didn't like what they saw - for whatever reason- but they gave him a chance, knowing his questionable character issues. That to me says they're willing to overlook some indiscretions, but they want to see heart and willingness to mature. Hopefully the kid has done that and will continue to do that, but you don't know it wasn't the BILLS cutting him that got him to wake up a bit and realize talent is only one third of what is required in the NFL. Hard work and a team mentality are the other parts of the whole.

[2003Contenders]

Plenty of overreaction here. If there have been rumblings of Marrone losing the locker room that is news to me. So he wants players to do things "his Way"? Is there any head coach that feels differently? In fact, when a new coach comes in it is always better to start off as a hard ass and then possibly ease up rather than doing just the opposite.

Edited December 16, 2013 by 2003Contenders

[4merper4mer]

What is his way and does it have anything to do with personality? Or is it about work ethic, commitment to team, and professionalism, coach and player traits that Marrone knows can produce winning teams.

 

If you want to call that "personality" you're way off base. Has there ever been a winning coach that has not valued those traits. If you say Marrone's looking for those traits equates to his personality, then I would say that Lombardy, Belichick, Knoll, and all of the SB winning coaches were "infected" with the same personality. Why in the world should that worry you or any Bills fan????

 

Regarding concern that Marrone has his team stand at attention during the singing of the national anthem. How silly is that. Isn't that a sign of professionalism and team discipline? Isn't that attending to every detail. Conversely, figeting around and not attending to the singing of the national anthem is a sign of lack of personal discipline and perhaps, disrespect. Look around you at the next game. Not only do people stand at attention, many of them hold their hands over their hearts and sing. I must say that as a Viet Nam era vet, having gone through military style discipline training, having had friends die in that war, I am among those that stand and proudly sing.

 

Belichick prohibits players from airing dirty laundry about the Patriots. He demands discipline and if he does not get it, that player is usually gone. Isn't that a little like what Marrone and Brown are saying and don't you really think that's a good thing???

 

I probably used the word personality where I should have used the word style. Outside of that, I disagree with what you are saying. Although I personally prefer when someone stands at attention during the national anthem I don't care in which hand that person holds their helmet. I thank you for your service to the country and truly appreciate it. The point I used about the national anthem had little to do with the national anthem itself and more to do with Marrone's style. Does anyone really need to attend a class about how apply Marrone's style to the national anthem? Certainly if they are goofing around during the anthem they need to hear about it from the coach....but a class? Should Mario Williams be cut if he holds his helmet incorrectly?

 

And give me a break about Bellichick please. You think he didn't know Hernandez was a dirt bag before Hernandez killed somebody? Like I said, there is a line and it is ok for be a little different with every coach but cutting talented guys because they aren't your style and waiting for someone to commit murder before letting them go are the opposite ends of the spectrum. Bellichick's displays an arrogance that he can correct anything. Marrone's seems to point at an insecurity about his own ability to be questioned. With a guy like Marshawn Lynch it was somewhere in between Hernandez/Johnson. I can't find too much fault in the Bills letting him go but at the same time I can't say a better group of coaches couldn't have rectified that situation.

 

Again these are just examples. I am more concerned that some nuance in Marrone's style will lead him to dump a talented player. "Discipline" "commitment to team" and "professionalism" are all important and also all subjective. I'm glad Marv didn't view Thurman's earrings as unprofessional because at the time they were certainly unusual. Marv adapted to his surroundings. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see that with Marrone. If he dumps Stevie or CJ you will know he has a screw loose.

 

You could argue though, that a coach like that with winning results on his side gets no complaints from fans, ala Belichick. I understand your point, to not have a tyrant as a HC because of the potential negative consequence it has on morale in the locker room. But then again, Vince Lombardi was not exactly a feel-good HC or Parcells and now Billy Boy...but they all won too...which is my point, I agree that a HC needs to know his men and how to coach them, but it is way too soon to begin to question Marrone's style for the positive or the negative. And, as of right now, there's been no ostensible demonstration of Marrone choosing character over talent. Rogers was passed over by all the teams and it was the BILLS who gave him a chance, they didn't like what they saw - for whatever reason- but they gave him a chance, knowing his questionable character issues. That to me says they're willing to overlook some indiscretions, but they want to see heart and willingness to mature. Hopefully the kid has done that and will continue to do that, but you don't know it wasn't the BILLS cutting him that got him to wake up a bit and realize talent is only one third of what is required in the NFL. Hard work and a team mentality are the other parts of the whole.

 

A tyrant is fine by me when backed up with results. This "we might cut talented guys after the season" message should not be delivered by the team press agent if the message is really from the coach. It should be delivered by the coach. Did Lombardi ever send out a public relations firm to do his work?