Interesting comments from Chris Brown

[jjmac]

 

 

Well, maybe next year all of them (except hogan) can be on their Rookie contracts for you.

 

Marrone talks about accountability. Wouldn't that include expecting your most experienced and highest-paid WR to play like a #1?

[4merper4mer]

 

 

Has he done that?? With what player? If you worry about things that may never happen, you'll get grey hair before turning 18.

 

Brown referenced the WR from Tennessee (name I can't recall this moment) as someone Marrone released because he wasn't a team player and, possibly, because of a bad work ethic. That player appeared in a game last week and caught two TDs. Is it posible that, having been cut by Buffalo, that player got religion with Indi and that cutting the player was good for the player? Or maybe that was a one time occurance. Maybe, if it doesn't work out for that player, he becomes toxic to team chemistry? Can't we just wait and see with him?

 

Lets not create perceived problems with Marrone that may not exist.

 

He hasn't done it yet. He is merely relaying a message through the team press mouthpiece that he will. I assume this will be after the season. Which means 1. He is willing to cut talented players because he is unable to adapt his coaching style and 2. He pre-announces this through a back channel rather than addressing it himself. Pardon me if that doesn't strike me as a winning formula.

[jjmac]

I don't really know what to say if you don't think he is. But here's the proof. Most receptions, most yards, most TDs. And he's been injured.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/team/team-statistics.html

 

Oh, and he's been the best receiver we've had in years. He's also the only WR to have back to back to back 1,000 yard seasons. A title that Andre Reed, Hames Lofton, Or anyone else can't claim. Just sayin.

 

Reed and Lofton played at much higher levels than Stevie has this year. In reality, though, I do expect him to be on the roster next season.

[ThurmasThoman]

The flip side that's hard to swallow is that if marrone tosses a couple of guys that could be nfl winners that he simply doesn't want to deal with or don't fit his unproven program.... We are left making up the talent gap again with the next coach. Lots of bad coaches run off good players leaving behind train wreck rosters. Hopefully, if marrone does make the bold moves at the top of the roster that rumors are pointing towards, he's the right guy to be making those moves (or atleast not terribly wrong).

 

I couldn't disagree more. As a manager that sometimes goes into jobs "cold", establishing the culture you want is paramount--maybe even more important than the work you do.

 

You could have a team of 8 people under you, and if the most talented one is a malcontent, the entire group is ruined. It's not rocket science, and it's not the coach losing the locker room, it's just human nature. Maybe after that Pittsburgh game, Stevie says "welcome to life as a Buffalo Bill" in a wide receiver meeting, and the young guys (who surely look up to him) laughed. That's poison, it undermines everything. And quite frankly, there isn't a player on this roster, aside from Mario Williams, who is talented enough to be able to be a malcontent and have his opinion carry weight.

 

Chan and Buddy established this roster, and as it stands, it doesn't have the talent to win more than 6 games. It hasn't had that ability for four years. Who knows what the cancer in the locker room is? It could be anyone. But whatever cuts the front office wants to make after this season is fine by me, and it should be fine by you as well. Because after last weeks game against Tampa Bay, this roster as it was contstructed by Buddy/Gailey had played every single team in the NFL over the last 3 seasons and this season--and were outclassed by all of them. The problem isn't Marrone, the problem is the roster.

 

Cutting the dead weight doesn't mean bringing in choir boys--as I said earlier, Alonso is no angel.

 

A lot of this goes unspoken in the NFL, but part of the reason teams like New England and Indy/Denver have been so successful is that those great QBs they have are also great character guys who can lead the team, and carry out the coaches philosophy--those kinds of leaders keep guys like randy moss, marvin the cold blooded killer harrison, or chad ochocinco in line. We, apparently, don't have that.

 

I look forward to seeing who gets cut.

 

Talent wins in the NFL. And so, like others have said, it's up to the HC to manage personalities and get the most out of them. There's a limit to that, but choir boys aren't going to get you into the playoffs.

 

This is true to an extent, but New England's roster is simply awful, and the star players are all injured.

 

Talent wins, but it needs a system to succeed in, a frame work to place the talent in.

 

If tom brady snickered every time beli was addressing the team, they wouldn't be where they are.

 

talent is part physical, and part mental. CJ has all the talent in the world but is my least favorite bill since jp losman.

[jjmac]

 

 

I couldn't disagree more. As a manager that sometimes goes into jobs "cold", establishing the culture you want is paramount--maybe even more important than the work you do.

 

You could have a team of 8 people under you, and if the most talented one is a malcontent, the entire group is ruined. It's not rocket science, and it's not the coach losing the locker room, it's just human nature. Maybe after that Pittsburgh game, Stevie says "welcome to life as a Buffalo Bill" in a wide receiver meeting, and the young guys (who surely look up to him) laughed. That's poison, it undermines everything. And quite frankly, there isn't a player on this roster, aside from Mario Williams, who is talented enough to be able to be a malcontent and have his opinion carry weight.

 

Chan and Buddy established this roster, and as it stands, it doesn't have the talent to win more than 6 games. It hasn't had that ability for four years. Who knows what the cancer in the locker room is? It could be anyone. But whatever cuts the front office wants to make after this season is fine by me, and it should be fine by you as well. Because after last weeks game against Tampa Bay, this roster as it was contstructed by Buddy/Gailey had played every single team in the NFL over the last 3 seasons and this season--and were outclassed by all of them. The problem isn't Marrone, the problem is the roster.

 

Cutting the dead weight doesn't mean bringing in choir boys--as I said earlier, Alonso is no angel.

 

A lot of this goes unspoken in the NFL, but part of the reason teams like New England and Indy/Denver have been so successful is that those great QBs they have are also great character guys who can lead the team, and carry out the coaches philosophy--those kinds of leaders keep guys like randy moss, marvin the cold blooded killer harrison, or chad ochocinco in line. We, apparently, don't have that.

 

I look forward to seeing who gets cut.

 

As do I. That's a thread somebody needs to start after the New England game.

[KOKBILLS]

It's amazing how frequently coaches come into Buffalo and attempt to mold the roster into what they want, wasting 1-2 years in the process. Unfortunately, they don't get it right, which means year 3 continues to be as bad or slightly better than the preceding 1-2 years. Jauron did it, Gailey did it, and now Marrone is doing it.

 

One of Marv's greatest abilities was to manage personalities. He had Jim, Bruce, Thurman, Andre and a host of guys who were stars to keep in check. While ML wasn't the best HC, he kept those guys on the right path (with exceptions). Now, we have the disciplinarian style seemingly invading the locker room and it's only natural the players will become resentful. But that's the danger of hiring college coaches who work only with 18-23 year olds.

 

Talent wins in the NFL. And so, like others have said, it's up to the HC to manage personalities and get the most out of them. There's a limit to that, but choir boys aren't going to get you into the playoffs.

 

Great post...Absolutely correct...

[Rockinon]

Stevie Johnson is definitely on Coach Marones s*** list, I think he'll be gone before next season.

I think the coach spoke to him because he was angry and frustrated, not necessarily because he's on the s*** list. Now CJ may be one that is on the s*** list, and a couple of offensive linemen may be on the s*** list. This team is struggling to run the ball after leading the league. EJ is not getting time to even go to the 2nd receiver in his progressions. The common denominator in the both run game and the pass game points to the offensive line. Marone has not had much to work with but that isn't stopping him from tinkering with the rotation. Unga is getting reps to replace Urbik and the LG position, he has not been satisfied with all season. It's easy to look at the skill positions and assume it's the skill player. Or you can look at the whole picture and determine the root cause of the problems. He may not even be satisfied with the RT position but doesn't have anyone healthy who can take over.

 

Skill players can make things happen, but you have to at least put them in a position to succeed. I agree with Chris Brown's take. I just don't think Stevie needs to be the scapegoat. Personally, I am turned off by his antics. He has moved into a leadership role and for a young guy who has some maturity issues, that's easier said than done. He is still excellent at getting open and this last game I saw some very heads up runs after the catch. I have noticed that EJ is targeting Stevie a lot recently, but he needs to find his other receivers too. Stevie is a good receiver but he is not Megatron, a guy who can carry the offense Too often, EJ has been locking on to his primary receiver(Stevie) and simply not looking at other options.

 

There are a lot of things going on. Inexperience at QB, poor protection by the OL, poor run blocking, running backs missing holes to name a few. Narrowing the focus to just one player is dangerous, although a lot can be said about focusing on QB. Players like Stevie, CJ, Fred and Scott are role players in a system. If the system is not right, the players are not going to be in a position to succeed. At the beginning of the year, the coaches said they wanted to run a lot. I don't see the production from the run game recently and with 2 very good backs. I really think the offense needs more studs on the line and that will be focused on in the off season next year. For now, hopefully the line can hold up well enough to give the rest of the offense a chance to succeed.

 

In this business, you have to be aware of a lot of things. Simply focusing on a dropped pass at a critical point in a game is not the answer. These things happen to all NFL teams. I would think that the coach is focused on individual players based on how they improve the team as a whole and not just one play that sticks in your craw. At least, I hope so.

[KOKBILLS]

 

This is true to an extent, but New England's roster is simply awful, and the star players are all injured.

 

Talent wins, but it needs a system to succeed in, a frame work to place the talent in.

 

 

I hear what you're saying...And I don't completely disagree...But the Pats still have plenty of talent, especially on the O-Line and some in the secondary...Their depth along the D-line has played impressively considering...Chandler Jones is very, very good...They have far less talent on Defense after the injuries no question...But enough talent to win around Brady who makes everything easier...The Belichick "system" is one of a kind in the NFL...But the biggest part of that system is the fact that he basically has an OC, and the ultimate team leader, for a QB...And that QB has stayed healthy most of his career...

[NoSaint]

 

 

Has he done that?? With what player? If you worry about things that may never happen, you'll get grey hair before turning 18.

 

Brown referenced the WR from Tennessee (name I can't recall this moment) as someone Marrone released because he wasn't a team player and, possibly, because of a bad work ethic. That player appeared in a game last week and caught two TDs. Is it posible that, having been cut by Buffalo, that player got religion with Indi and that cutting the player was good for the player? Or maybe that was a one time occurance. Maybe, if it doesn't work out for that player, he becomes toxic to team chemistry? Can't we just wait and see with him?

 

Lets not create perceived problems with Marrone that may not exist.

 

I'll say I worry because more coaches fail than succeed and if you are cutting at the top of the roster you better succeed or your not leaving the team in a better spot than where you found it. I'm not losing sleep but that's a fast way to dig a deep hole we get to sit in even after he's gone IF he cuts at the top AND doesn't succeed.

[mrags]

For everyone saying that they don't think the team is that young.... Were listed as the 3rd youngest team in the league. No link, they stated that in WGR less than an hour ago. FYI.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Marrone talks about accountability. Wouldn't that include expecting your most experienced and highest-paid WR to play like a #1?

 

The term #1 is pretty wide reaching - Stevie long term has played well, not great. He's paid well, not great. The same year pierre garçon got about 1.5m a year more, for a reference point, or colston at 1m per year more with guys like josh morgan, and Robert meachem coming in about 1m a year below.

[BillsVet]

This is true to an extent, but New England's roster is simply awful, and the star players are all injured.

 

Talent wins, but it needs a system to succeed in, a frame work to place the talent in.

 

If tom brady snickered every time beli was addressing the team, they wouldn't be where they are.

 

talent is part physical, and part mental. CJ has all the talent in the world but is my least favorite bill since jp losman.

 

The players in NE respect the HC, despite him appearing cold-hearted and unemotional. That's the difference, which should be patently obvious by now. I can't stand BB, but he's proven whereas Marrone isn't, Whaley, isn't, and EJM certainly isn't. Winning is the only way to do that, and the talk this organization has put out there is being tuned out. Point is, there is no substitute for victory.

[jjmac]

 

 

The term #1 is pretty wide reaching - Stevie long term has played well, not great. He's paid well, not great. The same year pierre garçon got about 1.5m a year more, for a reference point, or colston at 1m per year more with guys like josh morgan, and Robert meachem coming in about 1m a year below.

 

But he is our #1, at least for now.

[Cheddar's Dad]

 

He hasn't done it yet. He is merely relaying a message through the team press mouthpiece that he will. I assume this will be after the season. Which means 1. He is willing to cut talented players because he is unable to adapt his coaching style and 2. He pre-announces this through a back channel rather than addressing it himself. Pardon me if that doesn't strike me as a winning formula.

 

Or, maybe; 1. He wants to cut players that he thinks can't cut it and and can be replaced with more talented players and 2. He never sent Brown to pre-announce anything and your assumption that he did is nothing more than your asumption. In fact your thoughts here are all nothing more than your assumptions.

 

It's amazing how frequently coaches come into Buffalo and attempt to mold the roster into what they want, wasting 1-2 years in the process. Unfortunately, they don't get it right, which means year 3 continues to be as bad or slightly better than the preceding 1-2 years. Jauron did it, Gailey did it, and now Marrone is doing it.

 

Now, we have the disciplinarian style seemingly invading the locker room and it's only natural the players will become resentful.

 

I can't believe what some write here. Because you think that is what happened under Jauron and Gailey, the same will happen in year three under Marrone???

 

I know. It just came to me. Lets have an undiciplined locker room.

[YoloinOhio]

I don't follow college ball really but you can sign me up anyway for a RB that's over 6' and 240lbs. Reminds me of Eddie George just thinking about it. Yes please?!?!

Watch the Orange Bowl on Jan 3! I am a OSU fan and admittedly biased but let me just tell you, there are like 8 5 star RBs sitting on the bench because Hyde is so good. If they had kept giving him the ball against MSU they would be in the NC game. He is a stud. He was getting 8 yards a carry on the #1 D in the country and no real threat of a passing game. He would have been on the Heisman ballot if he hadn't missed the 1st 3 games which is when a lot of players rack of stats at the beginning of the year. If I could have any OSU RB in history I'd take Eddie #1, Hyde #2. He is the real.deal. Oh and he can the block.

[T master]

From Fan Friday...

 

In response to this question...

 

 

 

 

...came this answer:

 

 

 

Now, I know we don't put a whole lot of stock into what CB has to say, but these are some fairly strong words coming from him. It really sounds like we'll be seeing some folks get cut this offseason we might not expect. Stevie certainly comes to mind, but it does make me wonder who else.

 

Oh, and also this point:

 

 

 

 

Kind of interesting given all the goings-on in the Rogers thread.

 

Ya but Rogers given a bit of time like in Indy could have done for us what he did for them last week maybe alls this coaching staff needed to do was have a bit more faith in the kid & he could put up a bunch of games with 7 catches for 190 .

 

That is one thing this team doesn't do is take chances which Cincinnati is glad they took Burfict last year & the Cards are glad they took a chance on Tyrann Mathieu alls those 2 do is ball when they are on the field & once again they both sat there & the Bills passed on both !

[KGUNBILLS]

I don't know about Stevie being cut or traded, but I can't help feeling that Chandlers time is running out.

[Rubes]

I don't know about Stevie being cut or traded, but I can't help feeling that Chandlers time is running out.

 

I wouldn't be so certain. 5 catches for 54 yards today, and he was constantly open and made good catches. He and EJ seem to have a nice rapport. It's a position that can be upgraded, for sure, and his blocking is not very good, but he's a nice target to have. I can see him sticking around to bring a young guy along -- whether it's Gragg or somebody new.

[NoSaint]

 

 

I wouldn't be so certain. 5 catches for 54 yards today, and he was constantly open and made good catches. He and EJ seem to have a nice rapport. It's a position that can be upgraded, for sure, and his blocking is not very good, but he's a nice target to have. I can see him sticking around to bring a young guy along -- whether it's Gragg or somebody new.

 

We will see. He's not under contract next year so there's no hit to let him walk, and depending on what we do in free agency could cost us a comp pick if re-signed.

 

I like keeping him around but it'll be a different discussion than Stevie who has a huge cap hit

[BADOLBILZ]

I respectfully suggest that Tampa's team got a lot better after they released Josh Freeman. Check their record before and after that move.

 

Freeman was playing terrible football. Is Stevie playing terribly? Chandler? Or whomever you want cut? I don't think they have been very good, but they haven't been awful.

 

Offensively, the biggest problem has been the QB play followed by the inability of the OL to dominate the LOS. But it's not like they have much invested in the OL so I am not sure what can be expected of guys like Pears, Urbik or Legursky....they were picked up off the unemployment line.

 

Not really sure how your example applies.