Measuring EJ's progress

[BADOLBILZ]

Yea winning their last 3 in a row and 4 of their last 5, Jax is simply terrible. Including 3 road wins.

 

Anything to discredit a good performance. Let's start blaming the team he was playing. You play the team lined up across from you. Yea, he looked like crap on 2 drives in the first qtr but then went 17-20 for 193 yards for 2 TDs and ran for another. Shame on him.

 

Losing MJD and Shorts is devastating for Jacksonville's offense. That and offensive line injuries really halted their momentum. The Bills didn't look good today. That performance wins against maybe 2-3 teams in the NFL.

[Dibs]

Actually it would be like us playing Graham, Goodwin and either Spiller or Jackson (whoever you believe our #2 is because Todman is their #2). But why let facts get in the way of your point.

 

.....and I personally fail to see how the Jags having a depleted offense overly effects how EJ played.

[BADOLBILZ]

Actually it would be like us playing Graham, Goodwin and either Spiller or Jackson (whoever you believe our #2 is because Todman is their #2). But why let facts get in the way of your point.

 

The Jags actually have two very talented wr's in Blackmon and Shorts but they weren't playing today. The Jags don't have nearly the quality at RB that the Bills do. Maybe you are right and Toddman is as good as CJ Spiller but I don't think so. CJ is disappointing though.

 

Not sure you get the point.......which is that the Jags are not a talented team and the team they lined up today was considerably less talented due to injury. The Bills pretty much had all hands on deck. The Jags receivers played like Hogan and Easley today. Henne was pulling his hair out.

[dave mcbride]

 

 

When Denard Robinson fumbled going across the goal line, I laughed and turned to my wife and said, "This must be what it's like when other teams play the Bills." It was like playing ourselves today in many respects.

Ha - I said nearly the same to my wife. I said near the end of the game that these are the types of games the bills usually lose, but then again they're the types of games the jags usually lose too.

[Dibs]

The Jags actually have two very talented wr's in Blackmon and Shorts but they weren't playing today. The Jags don't have nearly the quality at RB that the Bills do. Maybe you are right and Toddman is as good as CJ Spiller but I don't think so. CJ is disappointing though.

 

Not sure you get the point.......which is that the Jags are not a talented team and the team they lined up today was considerably less talented due to injury. The Bills pretty much had all hands on deck. The Jags receivers played like Hogan and Easley today. Henne was pulling his hair out.

 

But how does this effect the play of EJ(as you implied/stated earlier)?

[BADOLBILZ]

 

.....and I personally fail to see how the Jags having a depleted offense overly effects how EJ played.

 

Jacksonville's inability to take advantage of opportunities allowed the Bills to stick with the run.......which allowed EJ some really easy play action options as the game wore on. We've seen the exact opposite happen in Pittsburgh and Tampa in recent weeks and the result has been nightmarish play by EJ Manuel.

 

The Jags lost at least 10 points on turnovers in their endzone alone. They lost a posession on a third down drop by a wide open receiver on a busted Bills coverage. It was an ugly game between two bad teams.

[LB3]

 

 

The Jags actually have two very talented wr's in Blackmon and Shorts but they weren't playing today. The Jags don't have nearly the quality at RB that the Bills do. Maybe you are right and Toddman is as good as CJ Spiller but I don't think so. CJ is disappointing though.

 

Not sure you get the point.......which is that the Jags are not a talented team and the team they lined up today was considerably less talented due to injury. The Bills pretty much had all hands on deck. The Jags receivers played like Hogan and Easley today. Henne was pulling his hair out.

 

I didn't miss the point. Maybe you did. I agree we have better depth. I also never for one second said Todman is as good as Spiller. I was just stating that you over exaggerated the comparison to support your point. They played their #2 Rb and #3 & 4 WR's. You compared that to us playing our #3 Rb (if he was still on the team) and our #5 & 6 WR's. Not my fault the Jags talent evaluation isn't as good as ours or that you gave a bad example.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

As usual, the same people who say there are no positives from a loss are more than happy to find negatives in a win….

[Dibs]

Jacksonville's inability to take advantage of opportunities allowed the Bills to stick with the run.......which allowed EJ some really easy play action options as the game wore on. We've seen the exact opposite happen in Pittsburgh and Tampa in recent weeks and the result has been nightmarish play by EJ Manuel.

 

The Jags lost at least 10 points on turnovers in their endzone alone. They lost a posession on a third down drop by a wide open receiver on a busted Bills coverage. It was an ugly game between two bad teams.

 

That is a really long bow to draw.

[dave mcbride]

Re manuel, let's see how he does against miami - a team with a good defense on the cusp of the playoffs. It's a good measuring stick game for him.

Edited December 15, 2013 by dave mcbride

[San-O]

I haven't seen any progress

 

+ 1

[dezertbill]

Actually it would be like us playing Graham, Goodwin and either Spiller or Jackson (whoever you believe our #2 is because Todman is their #2). But why let facts get in the way of your point.

 

...or playing with your second and third string QB and still winning...or play an undefeated team close until the 4th quarter.

 

All teams have injuries. Our offense have played games without starters at QB, RB, and WR. Funny when that happens we always find someone on the Bills to blame. But when other players have injuries we win cuz they suck.

 

Jags were the hottest team in the AFC coming into this week and they were playing a Buffalo team at home who had been bad on the road. Good win for us.

[ColdBlueNorth]

I think he has a long career ahead of him in the NFL because of his intangibles but he is a very long term project IMO.

 

I don't think you......or any NFL fan has the patience for how long it is going to take.

 

EJ is just a mess of poor natural accuracy, poor mechanics and slow processor speed.

 

After most of a season watching him at the NFL level I think his middle range is as a teasing Jason Campbell-type backup and his upside might be as an Alex Smith in 5-6 years.

 

Those two guys have had their moments......but most of their careers have been spent severely disappointing their fans.

 

In the meantime.......I think perhaps 30 better QB prospects could enter the league over the next 5 years. I know there will be a dozen in the next two years alone.

 

There are simply more quality QB prospects entering the league due to the NCAA becoming more pass happy and the NFL becoming a safer place to play QB.

 

Clinging to one and hoping is probably not a very sound approach in that environment.

 

An influx in talent will only accentuate the difference between teams that have great, good, average, mediocre and lousy quarterbacking.

 

The team would always be well served to keep looking for a better QB.......but especially in this case.

 

I am not hitching the wagon up to EJ alone and saying the search is over, and I think the FO should bring in legitimate competition for the QB position. I am not sure you spend another 1st to do that as there are other needs on this team and if nothing else EJ is big and serviceable and more often than not, he takes care of the ball. Competition is necessary and good at any position.

 

I do not buy the "slow eyes" and similar comments I hear about the rookie - and in case folks think I am being a homer on this EJ was not the QB I wanted the Bills to draft. My QB was that big, tough, pocket passing kid from Miami Ohio that went in the 7th to Denver, but is sitting behind a hall of famer out there.

 

But I do see signs that he can be better than just average and where folks say that he has slow eyes, I just see a normal rookie who is told to protect the ball; who is being very careful about where he places it and is a bit slow and unsure of what defenses are giving him. So in other words, I see a normal rookie development and progression.

 

As far as EJ's measurables for thinking on his feet and accuracy this was posted earlier this year and I see no reason to think that the numbers or stats were fudged to make him appear better than he is. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9749030/buffalo-bills-qb-ej-manuel-stats-charts-espn-magazine

 

I am sure he misses some throws, but I have also seen plenty of confusion by the receivers with two or more receivers ending up in the same spot on the field, running into each other, cutting off routes early. Woods seems one of the most polished out there and he is a rookie - that kid is a keeper.

[BADOLBILZ]

That is a really long bow to draw.

 

No it is simply observing and understanding the game of football.

 

How about the defense getting a turnover and giving the offense great field position to start each of the last 3 road games..........and EJ and the Bills failing to convert even one of them into a TD?

 

Most of the great coaches in the NFL will tell you that being able to score TD's to start the game is key to becoming a winner. EJ's horrendous early play in games is an issue. The D is handing him layups and he delivering airballs.

 

This game started out just like the other two......this opponent was just too awful to do what Pittsburgh and Tampa did.

[ColdBlueNorth]

That is a really long bow to draw.

 

Yeah. And where are our consolation points for being dinged up for most all of the first half of the year, playing scrubs in the secondary, rookies at WR, and any QB we could pick up off the streets?

 

Any win is a good win in my book.

 

At this point I am more concerned with the consistency of our run defense up front and it's tendency to get gashed for big chunks of yardage. I think we still need a legitimate big 2-gap run stuffer to play along side Dareus or over center. Kyle is more of a 3 technique guy who is a pretty disruptive pass rushing and maybe he and Mario rotate in on more obvious passing downs.

[BADOLBILZ]

I am not hitching the wagon up to EJ alone and saying the search is over, and I think the FO should bring in legitimate competition for the QB position. I am not sure you spend another 1st to do that as there are other needs on this team and if nothing else EJ is big and serviceable and more often than not, he takes care of the ball. Competition is necessary and good at any position.

 

I do not buy the "slow eyes" and similar comments I hear about the rookie - and in case folks think I am being a homer on this EJ was not the QB I wanted the Bills to draft. My QB was that big, tough, pocket passing kid from Miami Ohio that went in the 7th to Denver, but is sitting behind a hall of famer out there.

 

But I do see signs that he can be better than just average and where folks say that he has slow eyes, I just see a normal rookie who is told to protect the ball; who is being very careful about where he places it and is a bit slow and unsure of what defenses are giving him. So in other words, I see a normal rookie development and progression.

 

As far as EJ's measurables for thinking on his feet and accuracy this was posted earlier this year and I see no reason to think that the numbers or stats were fudged to make him appear better than he is. http://espn.go.com/n...s-espn-magazine

 

I am sure he misses some throws, but I have also seen plenty of confusion by the receivers with two or more receivers ending up in the same spot on the field, running into each other, cutting off routes early. Woods seems one of the most polished out there and he is a rookie - that kid is a keeper.

 

You don't believe Gannon when he says that EJ is playing in slow motion? You won't be convinced by anyone then.

 

The game is too fast for him right now......but that doesn't address thing like the natural inaccuracy and the inability to move WITHIN the pocket.

 

Sometimes you just gotta' believe what is right in front of your eyes and what the pros are saying.

 

I remember in CJ Spillers rookie year during the game at Miami Steve Tasker started a topic addressing CJ Spillers lack of intelligence.

 

It was BLATANT and clear........CJ couldn't understand the play that the QB was calling in the huddle because he was used to having the play signalled in as a PICTURE from the sideline at Clemson.

 

We are talking kindergarten-type information processing ability. In year 4 we are just now getting some people that can admit that CJ is limited by a lack of brain power.

 

Sometimes you gotta' just trust your eyes and ears.

[ColdBlueNorth]

You don't believe Gannon when he says that EJ is playing in slow motion? You won't be convinced by anyone then.

 

The game is too fast for him right now......but that doesn't address thing like the natural inaccuracy and the inability to move WITHIN the pocket.

 

Sometimes you just gotta' believe what is right in front of your eyes and what the pros are saying.

 

I remember in CJ Spillers rookie year during the game at Miami Steve Tasker started a topic addressing CJ Spillers lack of intelligence.

 

It was BLATANT and clear........CJ couldn't understand the play that the QB was calling in the huddle because he was used to having the play signalled in as a PICTURE from the sideline at Clemson.

 

We are talking kindergarten-type information processing ability. In year 4 we are just now getting some people that can admit that CJ is limited by a lack of brain power.

 

Sometimes you gotta' just trust your eyes and ears.

 

I believe Gannon... I believe he forgets that he joined the league in 87 and was not given a starting QB role till 92 under "Denny" Green. He was a decent scrambler in his day but did not have the greatest numbers in relief when he was a rookie. With time and patience, he developed into a fine mobile QB who was really good at spreading the ball around and finding the open man and went on to have a great career. He has come to my kid's HS in Minnesota to sign shirts and such for charity - he's a good man.

 

We have both been around for a while and we will see how this plays out. It is easy for me to be pessimistic, but something about the way this kid has pushed the ball down the field in tight games has me thinking he may have what it takes if he can stay healthy and if he is given the time and coaching he needs to become better.

 

Next year by this time either you are right and we are once again searching for the next Kelly, or we find that the kid does have a higher ceiling than we have seen, he is getting faster recognizing defenses, faster in his reads, and more confident stepping into his throws.

 

We need some improvement along the offensive line regardless of who is behind center and I am not sure if Spiller has the durability to be that every-down back. I do like that they keep a FB around in Summers, I have always liked having a bruiser in the backfield who can block on short yardage, tote the rock when folks are trying to avoid his blocks and pick up the tough yards himself, or take the occasional swing or screen pass when needed. He plays a position that is just about eliminated in the NFL, but he just seems like a good, hard-nosed football player who tries hard to help his team.

Edited December 16, 2013 by ColdBlueNorth

[DC Tom]

You don't believe Gannon when he says that EJ is playing in slow motion? You won't be convinced by anyone then.

 

I don't even believe Gannon when he says "Hello."

[vegas55]

 

 

You don't believe Gannon when he says that EJ is playing in slow motion? You won't be convinced by anyone then.

 

The game is too fast for him right now......but that doesn't address thing like the natural inaccuracy and the inability to move WITHIN the pocket.

 

Sometimes you just gotta' believe what is right in front of your eyes and what the pros are saying.

 

I remember in CJ Spillers rookie year during the game at Miami Steve Tasker started a topic addressing CJ Spillers lack of intelligence.

 

It was BLATANT and clear........CJ couldn't understand the play that the QB was calling in the huddle because he was used to having the play signalled in as a PICTURE from the sideline at Clemson.

 

We are talking kindergarten-type information processing ability. In year 4 we are just now getting some people that can admit that CJ is limited by a lack of brain power.

 

Sometimes you gotta' just trust your eyes and ears.

[John from Riverside]

No it is simply observing and understanding the game of football.

 

How about the defense getting a turnover and giving the offense great field position to start each of the last 3 road games..........and EJ and the Bills failing to convert even one of them into a TD?

 

Most of the great coaches in the NFL will tell you that being able to score TD's to start the game is key to becoming a winner. EJ's horrendous early play in games is an issue. The D is handing him layups and he delivering airballs.

 

This game started out just like the other two......this opponent was just too awful to do what Pittsburgh and Tampa did.

 

Stop acting like you are giving your opinion from a position of knowing more then other fans on a message board when it comes to football thus making your opinion more valid.....

 

It isnt

 

This is a team game.....and Hackett's game planning with the predictable run up th middle on 1st down putting us in crappy down and distance on 2nd down is as much to blame for the team missing "layups" as anything else.......

 

I really think that Spiller's time in Buffalo might be in jeapardy.....either that or we might see a pretty significant overhaul of the offensive line this offseason......if we have to have thoe 4 yards on 1st down for Hackett's offense to work we better put better blockers on the field

 

EJ Manuel is consistantly inconsistant......showing just enough flashes to think he might grown in his 2nd year