"Bad Day in Buffalo" - Grantland Article

[BADOLBILZ]

Church?? You ain't required to go to church. Go on Saturday if you need to - every freaking church in WNY has Saturday afternoon masses. Work is of an entirely different order.

 

You aren't required to go to work either. You work because you WANT to or to protect your own self interest.

 

It's not anyone else's problem if your job causes you to be late arriving to a sporting event. You seem to want me to show empathy for the guy.....when first or all he never said his work made him late......and second he shows no appreciation for the Bills fans who make it possible for him to enjoy a local NFL team without having to invest his own money into it. It's all about his experience. What about the people in his section who missed part of the game because he kept calling security over to address the people who were being loud or the woman that fell on his lap by accident? I addressed this already but if you dislike people that much then don't gather with 70,000 of them.

[Al Cowlings]

this article is certainly going to upset many.... but read just about any thread on the stadium experience and you will hear many regulars complaining that the culture around the games has gotten too far out of control. this didnt tell us anything that we dont regularly read on this board. none of it struck me as manufactured or fake, even if it certainly focused on the troubles instead of a broader picture of the stadium.

 

 

The lowest ticket price in the NFL. It encourages a young, college crowd. Just the kind that behaves badly. Most NFL markets out price the very idiots who act like hooligans at a game. Not saying the other 31 markets are perfect, but they are better than the Bills.

[mead107]

I am no young college kid. I think things where a lot wilder in the 90s . I was a lot younger then . No one has to be responsible for there own actions in today's society. Always someone else is to blame.

[bbb]

I am no young college kid. I think things where a lot wilder in the 90s . I was a lot younger then . No one has to be responsible for there own actions in today's society. Always someone else is to blame.

 

The crowds in the 80s were way worse than today. I remember a Monday night game vs. Miami in 1984, a Jets Monday night game in 1983 and a Patriots Sunday game in 1986 that was just fight after fight. An entire section got thrown out at that Patriots game.

 

For those complaining about present day behavior, I give you this. http://www.pro-footb...97409160buf.htm

 

I was 12 years old at this game. Up until 1989, it was the greatest game I've seen............My friends and I couldn't believe that the guy behind us could sleep through such excitement!

[dave mcbride]

 

 

You aren't required to go to work either. You work because you WANT to or to protect your own self interest.

 

It's not anyone else's problem if your job causes you to be late arriving to a sporting event. You seem to want me to show empathy for the guy.....when first or all he never said his work made him late......and second he shows no appreciation for the Bills fans who make it possible for him to enjoy a local NFL team without having to invest his own money into it. It's all about his experience. What about the people in his section who missed part of the game because he kept calling security over to address the people who were being loud or the woman that fell on his lap by accident? I addressed this already but if you dislike people that much then don't gather with 70,000 of them.

 

Your whole argument seems skewed from being in Buffalo -- i.e., if the a-holes don't show up, the team may move. That may be true, but it's not the case in other cities. If you go to a Giants or Yankees game (where I live), that sort of crap just isn't tolerated. Yet still people show up, and the teams obviously aren't going to move. I'm not saying you're wrong; just that it's sad that good fans rationalize that crap on the basis of fears the team might move. I realize it's a Buffalo thing.

[BADOLBILZ]

Your whole argument seems skewed from being in Buffalo -- i.e., if the a-holes don't show up, the team may move. That may be true, but it's not the case in other cities. If you go to a Giants or Yankees game (where I live), that sort of crap just isn't tolerated. Yet still people show up, and the teams obviously aren't going to move. I'm not saying you're wrong; just that it's sad that good fans rationalize that crap on the basis of fears the team might move. I realize it's a Buffalo thing.

 

What you and the others who don't go to the games do not understand is that the positive atmosphere and cameradarie created by the pro-party environment at the Ralph FAR surpasses the effect of a few highlighted negatives.

 

How does a franchise in a regionalized market endure thru 6 decades of Ralph Wilson? By making a game into an event.

 

I think an argument can be made....based on track record and longevity.....that Ralph is one of the 3-4 worst stewards of onfield/court product in the history of US professional sports.

 

I like how the author of that article just invites himself to a tailgate party........and I will be damned! Those guys invite him right in like he is one of the family. How does that work in NJ or Philadelphia?

[bbb]

Exactly!

[OCinBuffalo]

As I have said before: "Just win some F'ing games".

 

 

***************

The Bills don't have a violence problem. The Bills have a losing problem, which, as many of us quite literally have lived, never mind just know, is the real cause of us turning the game into an "event". If the only thing we focused on was winning, and not partying, seeing our family, eating, etc...."The Bills Game", the institution, would have died for us, years ago.

 

I will say it again: "Brandon: Spare me the song and dance, it's old. Enough with the "rules". Amazing how the old rules were just fine when we were winning some F'ing games. Don't blame anybody else but yourself for this situation. Nothing will change...until you win some F'ing games."

 

Nobody is getting arrested, if there's a chance they might miss EJ throwing for 3 TDs in the 4th quarter. The stadium isn't filled with opposing teams fans, who are all looking for a cheap ticket, and possibly a fight, if it's been filled with Bills fans because we are winning.(Optimistic)

 

However, if Trent Edwards is the QB, and Dick Jauron is the coach? WTF. Why not smoke that cigarette? Why not haul out that flask and drink up? Who the hell cares if they get tossed out of a game when you are down by 10 points in the 4th, it's 3rd and 5, and everyone in the stadium knows they are going to try the same stupid 3 yard pass in the flat play they've done all season, never mind this game. Did we get the 1st down? Of course not. 3 yards. Punt.

 

Remind me: What exactly do I miss if I get tossed out during that?

 

No, think about it: if I'm the "average tailgate partier", then, I've already partied, I've already eaten my food, I've already hung out with my family, I've already made the move on that chick...whatever. 80% of my expected "event experience" has already occurred, and getting tossed only means I go back to the tailgate and start getting dinner ready for everybody, provided I can get there. You want to give me a disorderly conduct? We'll see what my lawyer has to say about that. I can afford a good one, since, obviously I can afford season tickets.

 

So...what do I have to lose, and what do you really acheive by throwing me out? Answer: nothing. Is ANYTHING in that going to change? Nope. Not if there's nothing to miss.(Realistic)

 

EDIT: Also realistic: the tailgate didn't get this way overnight, and, it's therefore doubtful that it will change overnight. But, if we can keep the good, and minimize that bad, then the Bills game is the single best NFL gameday experience in the NFL. Period. All that I think is required is to keep the fans more interested in the outcome of the game, than they are in the other outcomes. When we know the outcome of the game is: lose, often as stupidly as possible, then the other outcomes become more interesting.

Edited December 14, 2013 by OCinBuffalo

[djp14150]

In reading this article I wondered if it was linked to this:

 

http://www.wgrz.com/news/article/223336/1/Bills-Cut-Access-At-Popular-Shortcut-To-Stadium-

 

which was posted on the board earlier about this fance blocking the lot. An re-reading it I realized it was one of the two who died.

 

The reaction to the Bills in blocking this walkway now makes little sense.

 

What they should have done is create a drunk room where people go to sober up before even kicking them out of the stadium.

 

As far as the story written was interesting. the big question is still around the one guys death in if he went to the bar or not and what happened. This could have been an accident or it could have been a homicide

 

As for game experiences.....

 

I havent had problems there and i have gone to games over 30 years. When I was in my 20s I would go to a game a year with buddies of mine. they would drink, I wouldnt. We would go there and be there around 1000-1030 and then tailgate and set up a grill and usually do burgers and hot dogs. We would do this before and after the game.

 

i have also gone to some games where I just go for the game with little tailgating done. thus I would get there around noon and park,

 

In the stands there were never any issues that I recall that were significant near me.

 

One time when I was with my buddies, one of the guys got into an argument with the person behind him over something stupid.. If I recall, the issue was him doing simple swearing like oh sh-- and then they would complain about it.

 

I remember times when the games were blown out you could scan tha stadiun and see fights. I went to a Pittsburgh game and Buffalo beat them so starting in the late 3rd quarter on there were fights all over the stadium.

 

I also went to a MNF game one time. I didnt notice a significant difference. At theat time the team was good so maybe then you got a cleaner fan base.

 

Now because the team is losing the people are going are a more younger partying crowd, while if they were a playoff team you get long time, skew older fans, who are going to see a good team and not just escape and get drunk.

[NoSaint]

 

 

What you and the others who don't go to the games do not understand is that the positive atmosphere and cameradarie created by the pro-party environment at the Ralph FAR surpasses the effect of a few highlighted negatives.

 

How does a franchise in a regionalized market endure thru 6 decades of Ralph Wilson? By making a game into an event.

 

I think an argument can be made....based on track record and longevity.....that Ralph is one of the 3-4 worst stewards of onfield/court product in the history of US professional sports.

 

I like how the author of that article just invites himself to a tailgate party........and I will be damned! Those guys invite him right in like he is one of the family. How does that work in NJ or Philadelphia?

 

From what I've seen a guy with a case of beer looking for a place to hang out won't be without a home too long if he has even a touch of social skills.

[dave mcbride]

 

 

What you and the others who don't go to the games do not understand is that the positive atmosphere and cameradarie created by the pro-party environment at the Ralph FAR surpasses the effect of a few highlighted negatives.

 

How does a franchise in a regionalized market endure thru 6 decades of Ralph Wilson? By making a game into an event.

 

I think an argument can be made....based on track record and longevity.....that Ralph is one of the 3-4 worst stewards of onfield/court product in the history of US professional sports.

 

I like how the author of that article just invites himself to a tailgate party........and I will be damned! Those guys invite him right in like he is one of the family. How does that work in NJ or Philadelphia?

Those are all fair points.

[ThurmasThoman]

I will never go to a guns n roses concert in chicago again. The last show I went to was their 92 tour. We got there a half hour before they were supposed to go on stage, waited in lime for about 50 minutes with no standing room and people spilling beer all over us. We finally got in around the end of the opening act...

 

As we got in the ushered wouldn't let us in until the song they were playing ended. Which took us to the end of the opening act... I have gone to dozens of concerts in my life, showed up at the same time, did the same things, but never got ln late like that...

 

Then I proceeded to go in after the ushers allowed us to find our seats. There were 7 of us all together and half of our seats were taken by some young punk morons... Also, the seats were in the very center so I had to walk through the whole aisle, where everyone is standing, and barely any room to get by, meanwhile a song is happening.

 

So I go to an usher and tell him to get these drunk idiots to move, they move and we finally get to our seats.... Midway through the next song two girls in front of us were hammered as can be, and one of them actually fell on me as I was sitting down... She could barely stand up... Once again I had To go get an usher

 

Later in the 3rd quarter there was this guy with his shirt off with 3 girls. He was screaming his head off the whole show. I don't mind that, but he was doing it wen when there was nothing happening on the stage..... He then kept taking the hat off of my friend in front of me, and after 3-4 times my friend flipped out but didn't start a fight..... Later, towards the end of the show the drunk guy has his shirt on and is almost crying because he's so cold and he's leaning against one of the other women, so pathetic....

 

Then as I was leaving to use the bathroom at the end of the show, some acdc fan knocked a sign from out of my hands as I was leaving my seat, then to top it all off there was a fist fight in the street near our parking lot as we were leaving and some guy almost hit us with his car... Then it took us 3 hours to get home. We live an hour away

 

 

 

I am not making any of this up

 

 

changed to show that this stuff can happen anywhere in america, whenever alcohol is involved. your story isn't unique, it's boring.

 

Completely agree with that. Also, banning alcohol in the stadium would probably worsen the situation as people would try to drink more beforehand.

 

The problem I see is not the consequences these people bring upon themselves, but the environment they create for others. I have the right to not have beer spilled all over me, get puked on, be in the middle of a fight, or any number of situations that happen regularly at the ralph. Heaven forbid I'm a fan of another team... The behavior I see is embarrassing. It’s like buying a ticket gives some people the right to act like complete animals.

 

Ultimately it is up to me whether or not to attend the games, no one is forcing me. However, I feel this environment has caused many good fans, especially those with families, to skip going to games.

 

I don’t know what the solution is. There is no easy way to fix the problem while not ruining the excellent tailgating environment for the vast majority that act socially responsible. I think the main drivers for this environment are well beyond the control of the bills. They are far reaching including many social and economic factors of the area. The most important factor the bills could control, in my opinion, is putting a better product on the field. This would shift the focus from the party to the game

 

lol. there is no "solution". congratulations--you're growing up, we all are. go to a bar at 2am, look around, and then come post on here that bars should be cleaned up. or concerts. or anything else where young people gather, drink, and get rowdy.

 

people complaining don't need to look at how to fix the ralph, they need to look in the mirror and figure out how to age gracefully. stop trying to chide the 22 year olds for having too much fun at the house party that you're not really invited to anymore. or, accept that that's pretty much the environment you're walking into. you go to the stadium for the experience, not for an amazing view. hell, why WOULDN"T you want to watch from your warm house, on your flatscreen tv, as the bills get pounded by the dolphins in 20 degree, snowy weather.

 

guess who goes to a game like that? drunk kids looking to party and have a good time.

 

and im in my 30s and don't drink, so i'm not trying to to defend the hedonism of the stadium for me and my group of friends.

 

the people in the stadium don't need to "grow up", the grown ups need to get over the fact that they have grown up.

Edited December 14, 2013 by JohnnyGold

[jester43]

I have pretty much gone full circle. When I first got season tickets back in 1997(I know horrible timing) we had 12 of us that would go. We were in our mid 20's at the time. Man would we make a day of it. We would meet at my friends house who lived right down the street from me usually at 6:30am for 1pm games. We would get to the stadium no later then 7am. Being all from Lancaster we always parked in lot 5. At that time, there were no restrictions when you could get the. We would get there & there would be noone even collecting at the gate. We drive in, setup, & an attendant would come by car to car collecting money(there was only a handfull of cars in the lot. & man would we throw a party. We would sometimes get a keg, sometimes my friend(who was always in charge of the beer) would just have coolers of ice cold beer in the back of his pickup truck. Each guy would give him money. I was in charge of the food & man back then would we do it right. My other friends pickup truck we would put 2 full size grills in & I would immediately start the gril & cook some omlettes/breakfast sausage/canadian bacon/sometimes pancakes/hashbrowns & so on. Some guys would eat right away some guys would start cracking the beers right away. Around 10:30/11 I would restart the grills & cook some steak/lobster tails/ribs/burgers/pork chops. It would be something different each week. & we would do some heavy drinking. We would go back to my friends house after the game & build & watch the 4pm games & we would drink some more & order usually pizza & wings. Yeah it was probably about a 10,000 calorie day for me back then. My wife would get so disgusted with me. I mean I would leave at 6:30am & I would not get home sometimes to 11-12 oclock at night. Especially when we had our son. He was sick alot when his first few years, nothing super serious, but a ton of acid reflux & stomach problems. I am embarrassed to say she almost left me a couple times after Bills games not understanding how I could leave her all day with a screaming kid. Looking back it was pretty selfish. As the years gone on, a tailgate group dwindled, a few guys moved out of town, a few guys had kids & few guys just got sick of the losing. We still have a big group for the opener & their are stragglers that come to different games but for season tickets from the original group of 12 it is only me & this other guy & we both bring our sons now. I went to the first 3 games with my son & to be honest if it wasn't for him I would probably just go to the opener. He loves it though & I do love spending the day with him. As far as tailgating now, I get there between 9 & 10am, me & my friend still park in lot 5 but instead of doing keg stands & beer funnels for breakfast, we usually have a friendly game of father son football between the 4 of us(me & my son always win haha). I will still have a few beers in the parking lot, but usually don't drink in the stadium & nothing like I used to. I miss the old days but I don't know ever want to relive them. There was many times back then myself or one of my friends could of ended up just like these two guys.

thanks...that was almost as interesting as the grantland article!

[DallasBillsFan1]

I've been to several stadiums/NFL gams in the NFL (Buffalo, Jacksonville, Miami, San Diego, Dallas) and by far Buffalo is the "Wild West" of all of that small sample. Sure all stadiums tailgate and whoop it up, but it has been my experience that Buffalo is at a different level. Of course I enjoy it as a rabid Bills fan.

The question is: when you isolate the NFL stadium experience on game day, how do the statistics play out? Did any other NFL city experience two deaths on any one Sunday ... ever? What are the comparable arrests and DWI stats?

[gobillsinytown]

Just to give this discussion an international flavor, I redid this again:

 

I will never go to a European soccer match in Brazil again. We got there a half hour before the start of the match, waited in lime for about 2 hours with no standing room and people hitting us with their vuvuzelas. We finally got in around the middle of the first period. The score was 0-0.

 

As we got in the usher wouldn't let us go to our seats, because he was worried that the stands in our section would collapse because all the fans were jumping up and down at the same time, trying to break the boards. Which took us to the end of the first period....the score was 0-0. I have been to many european soccer matches, showed up at the same time, did the same things, but never got ln late like that...

 

Then I proceeded to go in after the riot police went in with clubs and hauled off all the fans in our section. There were 7 of us all together and half of our seats were taken by some young punk hooligans, each carrying a homemade knife. Also, the seats were in the very center so I had to walk through the whole aisle, where everyone is standing, and barely any room to get by, meanwhile there was a near-goal.

 

So I go to a fully armored policeman and tell him to get these drunk idiots to move, they are disarmed and dragged off by their hair and we finally get to our seats.... Midway through the next period, 1,000 fans in front of us were hammered as can be, and one of them actually fell on me after being pummeled with a homemade club, She could barely stand up what with all the blood streaming down her face... Once again I had To go get a riot policeman. The score was 0-0.

 

Later in the 3rd period there were twelve guys with their shirts off, each carrying a piece of wood they had ripped out from the stands. They were screaming and pointing at some fans of the other team who were similarly armed. I don't necessarily mind that, but they were doing it wen when there was nothing happening on the field.....which was all the time. He then kept trying to club my friend in front of me, and after 3-4 times my friend was unconscious. The riot police fired tear gas to clear out both groups. Later, towards the end of the match, with the score still 0-0, a drunk guy has his shirt on and is almost crying because he's bleeding and he's leaning against one of the other women, so pathetic....

 

Then as I was leaving to use the slit trenches at the end of the show, some fan knocked a sign from out of my hands as I was leaving my seat with the molotov cocktail he was carrying, then to top it all off there was a riot where people were hurling rocks in the street near our parking lot as we were leaving and some riot policeman almost hit us with their armored personell carrier... Then it took us 3 hours to get home through the clouds of tear gas........ We live an hour away. The match ended with the score 0-0.

 

I am not making any of this up.

[BADOLBILZ]

From what I've seen a guy with a case of beer looking for a place to hang out won't be without a home too long if he has even a touch of social skills.

 

What have you seen? The Pinto tailgate entertains dozens of strangers every week.....I have rarely seen anyone walking up with gifts. Our food and beer bill is probably $30-$40 per person every week so sharing a beer doesn't make a dent in the cost to feed a stranger.

 

It's just a relatively unique environment and it is behavior that is passed down. When we first started out as season ticket holders we were invited into a tailgate that is much like ours today. Those guys got older and the losing, drive and weather eroded their group(they drove up from Ohio)......but the tradition continues. Maybe you can see what I am talking about when I tell you that the tailgate environment has sustained this franchise. What are we on our 5th losing decade in 6? Never having won an NFL championship. This organization is a disgrace on the field. Without these bonds and traditions formed between fans there are no Buffalo Bills.

 

Which is why I defend Bills fans so much here. The people who hate fans....like PTR and his Dolphins game is not a sellout thread.... and blame fans for running players out of town etc..have no idea how displaced their anger really is.

[Just Jack]

What they should have done is create a drunk room where people go to sober up before even kicking them out of the stadium.

 

There is a drunk tank/jail cell in the stadium. Except people get a free ride downtown after the game, courtesy of the Sheriff dept.

[NoSaint]

 

 

What have you seen? The Pinto tailgate entertains dozens of strangers every week.....

 

Right but the post I replied to was about this guy getting invited into a tailgate as being something unique.... It's not particularly. Especially given his circumstances.

 

Heck, I'm a season ticket holder here in New Orleans, and I know its a bit different than most places but honestly nothing you just described struck me as noteworthy compared to my experiences here. I've also been warmly welcomed at other stadiums, but as a road fan there's a certain comradery that you kind of expect to see. Not trying to bash the Ralph or bills fans - the community factor is great but I don't think its as lacking around the league as you do.

 

I think part of what your describing is the fact that there are fewer substitutes in buffalo. The mets suck and there's the Knicks, Yankees, Broadway, concerts, and on and on- in buffalo there's the 8 big Sundays for a lot more people.

Edited December 14, 2013 by NoSaint

[bbb]

Whatever you think about the last part of the article, where he does seem to bash on Buffalo a little to me, you have to say this guy did a good job and answered a lot of questions we had.

 

It never made sense to me and a lot of others here how the father of the Dolphins fan could be the one who found him - on the total opposite end of where he should have been looking. Now we know how and why.

 

That same father got bashed here (I think I joined in) for "suing" the Bills. His explanation was great. He only was doing what had to be done at the time - filing some papers. And, now he's satisfied that nobody did anything wrong and he's not one to sue just out of anger, etc, and has withdrawn the papers. Kudos to him! What a stand up guy.

 

Another thing that made no sense was the brother saying that the kid got thrown out for no reason and that he wasn't drunk at all...........Now it turns out he was drunk and he was in the woman's bathroom.

 

As for the Canadian guy (I didn't even know about this), it seems ridiculous that the family insists that he didn't drink that much, when the guy who was with him the whole time says they both were. Why else would they leave at halftime and why would he walk right in front of car on Southwestern? The guy he was with doesn't seem to have much to gain by admitting they were both bombed. Not sure why he would lie.

[sullim4]

It is definitely an NFL-wide problem. I've seen fights, unruly behavior, etc at the Meadowlands and CenturyLink Field in addition to Buffalo. Seattle is a much different landscape stadium-wise and yet the unruly behavior is still there, though perhaps not to the extent that it is in both Buffalo and East Rutherford. Honestly I fear for my car when I park in Orchard Park because inevitably someone has an open fire pit just a few feet away from my car.

 

There are a few ways to mitigate it. Generally I will only sit in 'good seats' where there's a contingent of long-time season ticket holders that know how to behave. Lately I've been picking up club seats to late season games at a fairly substantial discount off face thanks to a combination of the Bills already being eliminated and season ticket holder Christmas travel plans. The atmosphere in the clubs and on the lower deck inbetween the 40 yard lines tend to be significantly better than anywhere on the upper deck or in the Rockpile.

 

Though I have to admit, being able to sit on my warm living room sofa with a Ninkasi oatmeal stout watching the game on my 52" TV is mighty tempting as opposed to fighting traffic, paying for parking, and getting stuck with drinking an $8 Bud Light makes the decision to buy a ticket to the game seem foolish. The NFL has almost done too good of a job at refining their TV product that their in-stadium product has almost no hope of beating it.