Sully throws SJ13 under the bus

[thebandit27]

Did he ask "why on earth did you pay $7m/year?", or did he say 'at this point, he may not be worth $7m"?

 

2 different things and I read the latter.

 

Not sure (I refuse to read his stuff)...I'm going based off of Dibs' quote from above, in which he quote Sullivan as saying this:

 

"They should have let him go after the outrageous 2011 season. Instead, they gave him a five-year, $36.25 million extension. It was a mistake."

 

Admittedly I was paraphrasing to make a point.

[JPS]

For some people, that may be true.

 

The thing that gets me is that, aside from a couple of columns written a few weeks into the season, it's the same template, it's the same exact thing he's saying - ad nauseum. As mentioned upthread, Buffalo was blessed with two outstanding sports columnists in Felser and Kelley, and while they had days that were better than others, their columns were a must-read. Even in years when the Sabres and Bills struggled, you wanted to see what they had to say.

 

Sully, unfortunately, is just really, really predictable.

Don't you think that has anything to do with the subject matter?

 

Over the last decade, there has been debate over players like Losman, Edwards, Fitzpatrick, Evans, Poz, Kelsay….and on and on. I have read a lot of people defending these players and casting arrows elsewhere at coaches, GMs and sportswriters.

 

The bottom line is: Guys like Stevie have more losing on their resume than winning. There's a reason for that. He may be great as the final piece of the puzzle and 3rd WR for a team that is more complete, but I think he fails as your #1 building block WR. He routinely sets himself apart from the team and he fails in the clutch more than he succeeds. Many WRs have great skill sets, but few a great WRs. I think Stevie had his chance with this coaching staff and might find some pine over the next few weeks on his way out of town.

[PromoTheRobot]

Did he ask "why on earth did you pay $7m/year?", or did he say 'at this point, he may not be worth $7m"?

 

2 different things and I read the latter.

He said "pay the man" in 2011. Now he says "I was against paying the man." He can say SJ is not worth it now, but he can't say he was against the extension when he was in favor of it 2 years ago.

 

PTR

[JPS]

Not sure (I refuse to read his stuff)...I'm going based off of Dibs' quote from above, in which he quote Sullivan as saying this:

 

"They should have let him go after the outrageous 2011 season. Instead, they gave him a five-year, $36.25 million extension. It was a mistake."

 

Admittedly I was paraphrasing to make a point.

C'mon, my friend. You have an awful lot to say about a guy whom you never read.

 

He said "pay the man" in 2011. Now he says "I was against paying the man." He can say SJ is not worth it now, but he can't say he was against the extension when he was in favor of it 2 years ago.

 

PTR

I read it all. I read it as 'you have to pay him because you have nothing else', more than 'pay Stevie - he's a cornerstone #1 WR'.

 

I can't believe I'm in the position of defending a sportswriter. I just think our attention is diverted from the real problem: the product on the field. And Stevie has called attention to himself recently for all the wrong reasons.

 

So, am I irked that Sullivan says it may be time for Stevie to go? No.

[cvanvol]

C'mon, my friend. You have an awful lot to say about a guy whom you never read.

 

I read it all. I read it as 'you have to pay him because you have nothing else', more than 'pay Stevie - he's a cornerstone #1 WR'.

 

I can't believe I'm in the position of defending a sportswriter. I just think our attention is diverted from the real problem: the product on the field. And Stevie has called attention to himself recently for all the wrong reasons.

 

So, am I irked that Sullivan says it may be time for Stevie to go? No.

 

What??? He directly said in one article that you need to sing him. NO matter if he said he wasnt a true number one he still said that you should resign him. Then the bills did resign him to a nearly identical contract that sully proposed in his article. Now he is saying that he NEVER said that.

[JPS]

What??? He directly said in one article that you need to sing him. NO matter if he said he wasnt a true number one he still said that you should resign him. Then the bills did resign him to a nearly identical contract that sully proposed in his article. Now he is saying that he NEVER said that.

Read it again….

 

Sullivan did not say that. Are you all just looking for something to get fired up about? He said signing Johnson to that contract was a mistake. Whether he agreed with the signing or not is irrelevant to Stevie's current worth to this team or to Sullivan's current point: The Bills should move on. Whether Sullivan made a mistake on Stevie is irrelevant too. He doesn't run the Bills.

Edited December 13, 2013 by JPS

[thebandit27]

C'mon, my friend. You have an awful lot to say about a guy whom you never read.

 

I don't read his stuff anymore; I don't know what you want me to say. I stopped reading his schtick a few years ago when it became apparent that every article was going to follow a template, and that creativity and free-form column-writing was gone from the News altogether.

 

As for why I have a lot to say about him, well, do you have any strong opinions about former colleagues?

 

I read it all. I read it as 'you have to pay him because you have nothing else', more than 'pay Stevie - he's a cornerstone #1 WR'.

 

I can't believe I'm in the position of defending a sportswriter. I just think our attention is diverted from the real problem: the product on the field. And Stevie has called attention to himself recently for all the wrong reasons.

 

So, am I irked that Sullivan says it may be time for Stevie to go? No.

 

Not in the slightest...there are 40 threads on the front page of this board alone, and--by my count--23 of them are directly related to the product on the field; that's anything but having our attention diverted.

 

Overall, the point of the thread was quite clear: 2 years ago, Jerry clearly advocated signing Stevie...now that he's not satisfied with the return on investment, he whips out this gem...

 

Two years ago, when I advocated not re-signing Johnson, I said he had separated from the team one too many times.

 

Be honest...does that disingenuous double-talk not bother you?

[cvanvol]

Read it again….

 

Sullivan did not say that. Are you all just looking for something to get fired up about? He said signing Johnson to that contract was a mistake. Whether he agreed with the signing or not is irrelevant to Stevie's current worth to this team or to Sullivan's current point: The Bills should move on. Whether Sullivan made a mistake on Stevie is irrelevant too. He doesn't run the Bills.

 

"Two years ago, when I advocated not re-signing Johnson"

 

Maybe you need to read it again....

[Campy]

Don't you think that has anything to do with the subject matter?

 

Over the last decade, there has been debate over players like Losman, Edwards, Fitzpatrick, Evans, Poz, Kelsay….and on and on. I have read a lot of people defending these players and casting arrows elsewhere at coaches, GMs and sportswriters.

 

The bottom line is: Guys like Stevie have more losing on their resume than winning. There's a reason for that. He may be great as the final piece of the puzzle and 3rd WR for a team that is more complete, but I think he fails as your #1 building block WR. He routinely sets himself apart from the team and he fails in the clutch more than he succeeds. Many WRs have great skill sets, but few a great WRs. I think Stevie had his chance with this coaching staff and might find some pine over the next few weeks on his way out of town.

 

No, I don't. If I did, I would have said as much.

 

Jerry Sullivan's column is being ardently defended by the user known as JPS.

 

You know, I've never seen them both in the same room at the same time...

[thebandit27]

No, I don't. If I did, I would have said as much.

 

Jerry Sullivan's column is being ardently defended by the user known as JPS.

 

You know, I've never seen them both in the same room at the same time...

 

That's funny, but I doubt JPS is Sullivan...JPS seems to use varying diction and logic to make points as opposed to emotional disdain.

[JPS]

No, I don't. If I did, I would have said as much.

 

Jerry Sullivan's column is being ardently defended by the user known as JPS.

 

You know, I've never seen them both in the same room at the same time...

That's awesome. Love it.

 

That's funny, but I doubt JPS is Sullivan...JPS seems to use varying diction and logic to make points as opposed to emotional disdain.

I'll admit that I didn't see the sentence about him advocating against it and can't say for sure whether he did or did not. But, whether you like Sully or not, I think it's a fair article about Stevie. Even if Sully did contradict one of his earlier statements, I agree with his points. It's his job to stir the pot and here we are, talking about him…and the Bills. So it can't be that bad.

 

BTW - I am a proud product of Buffalo Public Schools. Sully is from Boston or thereabouts…so he has to be at least part douche.

[thebandit27]

I'll admit that I didn't see the sentence about him advocating against it and can't say for sure whether he did or did not. But, whether you like Sully or not, I think it's a fair article about Stevie. Even if Sully did contradict one of his earlier statements, I agree with his points. It's his job to stir the pot and here we are, talking about him…and the Bills. So it can't be that bad.

 

BTW - I am a proud product of Buffalo Public Schools. Sully is from Boston or thereabouts…so he has to be at least part douche.

 

For what the News wants from him, yes indeed, he does his job. Personally, I prefer my columnists to be interesting and thought-provoking reads, so I forgo Jerry's work.

 

And yes, I can easily distinguish your delivery from Sullivan's; take that as a compliment. For the record, I think you are a good poster and have no problem with those that disagree with me (so long as they do so in a reasonable manner--as you seem to have no trouble doing).

[cvanvol]

That's awesome. Love it.

 

I'll admit that I didn't see the sentence about him advocating against it and can't say for sure whether he did or did not. But, whether you like Sully or not, I think it's a fair article about Stevie. Even if Sully did contradict one of his earlier statements, I agree with his points. It's his job to stir the pot and here we are, talking about him…and the Bills. So it can't be that bad.

 

BTW - I am a proud product of Buffalo Public Schools. Sully is from Boston or thereabouts…so he has to be at least part douche.

 

Are you taking crazy pills or am I? Dude the articles have been linked countless times and the direct quotes have been pulled from each. He wrote an entire article advocating to resign Johnson. He then says two years later that they should have let him walk and that he advocated for stevie to be run out of town.

 

You can say FOR SURE that he is lying, I am sure there is another article out there with a little blurb about cutting stevie. I know that because this is what Sullivan does ALL THE TIME. Play both sides of the issue and then when it pans out say that you called it all along.

 

The dudes picture belongs in the dictionary next to Historical Revisionist.

[JPS]

Are you taking crazy pills or am I? Dude the articles have been linked countless times and the direct quotes have been pulled from each. He wrote an entire article advocating to resign Johnson. He then says two years later that they should have let him walk and that he advocated for stevie to be run out of town.

 

You can say FOR SURE that he is lying, I am sure there is another article out there with a little blurb about cutting stevie. I know that because this is what Sullivan does ALL THE TIME. Play both sides of the issue and then when it pans out say that you called it all along.

 

The dudes picture belongs in the dictionary next to Historical Revisionist.

Well, I don't know if he anything else to say 2 years ago…..maybe there's an article with a change of heart or something. And I don't have the time to research it. I just doubt it lines up that neatly and don't care for that matter. The points of the current article were well made…to me any way.

[cvanvol]

Well, I don't know if he anything else to say 2 years ago…..maybe there's an article with a change of heart or something. And I don't have the time to research it. I just doubt it lines up that neatly and don't care for that matter. The points of the current article were well made…to me any way.

 

It was already researched and posted it isn't a matter of opinion. He said to resign johnson, now he is saying that he didnt say that.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

this is what Sullivan does ALL THE TIME. Play both sides of the issue and then when it pans out say that you called it all along.

 

Bingo, cvanvol, you are yet another who can see the forest through the trees!

 

Sully's overall arrogance and short-term memory issues have grown to be quite tiresome and predictable. He rarely, if ever, goes out on a limb with a position on what should happen in the future. To proclaim SJ13 should be jettisoned for 2014 is hardly doing so, and is among the safer bets he could possibly make at this point. If the Bills do release Stevie, it might then allow a few of his numbnuts devotees to profess "Boy, Jerry called that one, he really knows football and tells it like it is!"

 

Approximately 99% of his columns & opinions are formed on the basis of hindsight & statistics, so he is usually taking positions on things which have already occurred. Won-loss records, relative value of performance vs. draft position, etc ... stats can always be used to say whatever one wants them to say. And as PTR points out, he will often contradict whatever he may have written in the past. Miley Cyrus would certainly be jealous, because it really is the best of both worlds.

 

These days, you don't see him frying the Bills over Mario Williams being a bad investment and/or distraction to the team as he sits among the league leaders in sacks.

 

And he hasn't complained about Manny Lawson's unimpressive credentials lately, but who remembers his God-awful preseason piece of junk that basically made Lawson out to be "pedestrian" and basically not even worth a squirt of piss as a FA signing at ~$4 million per. He implied that the Bengals D improved dramatically once Manny was removed from the regular lineup. Sully heard snickers out of Cincinnatti sources that the Bills would pay him $4mill ... sure he did.

[cvanvol]

OT but is Sully no longer on WGR at all this season or have I missed something? Its been all Joe B on Mondays at Sully's old time slot.

 

 

I think Sully and Bucky are doing their own show on some other station. Plus it is pretty apparent that Jeremy hates Sully or at the least dislikes him.

[RyanC883]

In fairness to Sully, SJ did appear to be on the verge of becoming a legitimate top WR when he was resigned. However, he has not improved since then, and actually regressed. Hopefully we can trade him. Perhaps to the Redskins for Cousins?

[cvanvol]

Bingo, cvanvol, you are yet another who can see the forest through the trees!

 

Sully's overall arrogance and short-term memory issues have grown to be quite tiresome and predictable. He rarely, if ever, goes out on a limb with a position on what should happen in the future. To proclaim SJ13 should be jettisoned for 2014 is hardly doing so, and is among the safer bets he could possibly make at this point. If the Bills do release Stevie, it might then allow a few of his numbnuts devotees to profess "Boy, Jerry called that one, he really knows football and tells it like it is!"

 

Approximately 99% of his columns & opinions are formed on the basis of hindsight & statistics, so he is usually taking positions on things which have already occurred. Won-loss records, relative value of performance vs. draft position, etc ... stats can always be used to say whatever one wants them to say. And as PTR points out, he will often contradict whatever he may have written in the past. Miley Cyrus would certainly be jealous, because it really is the best of both worlds.

 

These days, you don't see him frying the Bills over Mario Williams being a bad investment and/or distraction to the team as he sits among the league leaders in sacks.

 

And he hasn't complained about Manny Lawson's unimpressive credentials lately, but who remembers his God-awful preseason piece of junk that basically made Lawson out to be "pedestrian" and basically not even worth a squirt of piss as a FA signing at ~$4 million per. He implied that the Bengals D improved dramatically once Manny was removed from the regular lineup. Sully heard snickers out of Cincinnatti sources that the Bills would pay him $4mill ... sure he did.

 

If you follow him on twitter he still tries to go through with the Mario stuff EVERY game. It is old and tired just like him and that publication. Even more pathetic is their "paywall" that is so easily worked around by using an incognito tab or deleting history.

 

I hope to win the lottery just to be able to purchase that newspaper and immediately fire Jerry.

[JPS]

For what the News wants from him, yes indeed, he does his job. Personally, I prefer my columnists to be interesting and thought-provoking reads, so I forgo Jerry's work.

 

And yes, I can easily distinguish your delivery from Sullivan's; take that as a compliment. For the record, I think you are a good poster and have no problem with those that disagree with me (so long as they do so in a reasonable manner--as you seem to have no trouble doing).

Fair enough. Thanks and I totally agree.