Sully throws SJ13 under the bus

[PromoTheRobot]

Cool, nice find. But let's be honest about a couple of points Sully made back then:

 

 

 

 

Sully doesn't exactly sing SJ's praises. When he does talk about his value, it's in the context of Chan Gailey's offense. Perhaps the point he's trying to make now is that, with Chan gone, his value has gone down tremendously. And another one:

 

 

 

Again, not exactly singing his praises, and when he does talk about his value and ability, it has to do with the chemistry between him and Fitz. Who, like Chan, is no longer here.

 

Point being, perhaps the things that made SJ so valuable in the first place (Chan and Fitz) are now gone, reducing his value to the point where he is no longer an important asset, and thus the reason for Sully's change of mind.

 

Of course, it certainly would have been better to point this out rather than to say he was against the re-signing of SJ. But I'm not sure I would call it a complete 180.

 

That's called playing both sides of the street. Whatever his misgivings were, Sully was still in favor of extending SJ at 7.5M a year which is about what he signed for. And today, magically, Sully was never in favor of signing Johnson and the Bills overpaid him.

 

Again, all Sully has to do is acknowledge his prior stand. But instead he decides to go full douche.

 

PTR

Edited December 12, 2013 by PromoTheRobot

[thebandit27]

Cool, nice find. But let's be honest about a couple of points Sully made back then:

 

 

 

 

Sully doesn't exactly sing SJ's praises. When he does talk about his value, it's in the context of Chan Gailey's offense. Perhaps the point he's trying to make now is that, with Chan gone, his value has gone down tremendously. And another one:

 

 

 

Again, not exactly singing his praises, and when he does talk about his value and ability, it has to do with the chemistry between him and Fitz. Who, like Chan, is no longer here.

 

Point being, perhaps the things that made SJ so valuable in the first place (Chan and Fitz) are now gone, reducing his value to the point where he is no longer an important asset, and thus the reason for Sully's change of mind.

 

Of course, it certainly would have been better to point this out rather than to say he was against the re-signing of SJ. But I'm not sure I would call it a complete 180.

 

IMO, it is, based on the quote that PTR posted:

 

If the Bills had been more willing to bargain, they probably could have signed Johnson for less. But they should give it another try. Offer him a deal similar to Fitz's, which paid him around the middle of No. 1 quarterbacks. There are 14 wide receivers making $7.65 million. Offer him six years, $45 million, or $7.5 million a year. If it sounds like overpaying, so be it. They got two productive seasons from him at bargain rates. You can bet there will be some team willing to go to $8 million for a man who attacks Revis Island.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Our WR group is pretty lackluster and lacks depth to begin with. It would be really dumb to trade our most talented and complete WR on the team. We need to add talent.

 

Stevie is not where you subtract in that core of WR players. Graham sure and the depth below him.

Edited December 12, 2013 by BuffaloBillsForever

[The Big Cat]

Our WR group is pretty lackluster and lacks depth to begin with. It would be really dumb to trade our most talented and complete WR on the team. We need to add talent.

 

Stevie is not where you subtract in that core of WR players. Graham sure and the depth below him.

 

This has been particularly evident in the games Stevie missed this yea--wait...

[BuffaloBillsForever]

This has been particularly evident in the games Stevie missed this yea--wait...

 

Disregard his years of body of work which is outstanding and attribute getting rid of him because of a few games (miniscule sample size) where he didn't play. Brilliant thinking.

Edited December 12, 2013 by BuffaloBillsForever

[The Big Cat]

Disregard his years of body of work which is outstanding and attribute getting rid of him because of a few games (miniscule sample size) where he didn't play. Brilliant thinking.

 

Here I thought you were talking about our WR depth in 2013. I failed to realize we were making roster decisions as if Donald Jones, David Nelson, Lee Evans, Josh Reed, Roscoe Parrish and James Hardy were still lined up with Stevie.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Here I thought you were talking about our WR depth in 2013. I failed to realize we were making roster decisions as if Donald Jones, David Nelson, Lee Evans, Josh Reed, Roscoe Parrish and James Hardy were still lined up with Stevie.

 

Woods and Goodwin will not replace Stevie IMO. They will be solid 3 and 4 guys. Stevie your #2. That's the core we have to keep. Then add a potential #1 in the draft. By trading Stevie you are creating another hole. While I think Woods is a solid player I don't think he can contribute to the extent we need to get out of a #2 guy like what Stevie has produced the last 3 years. Goodwin I can only hope becomes a James Lofton type.

Edited December 12, 2013 by BuffaloBillsForever

[The Big Cat]

Woods and Goodwin will not replace Stevie IMO. They will be solid 3 and 4 guys. Stevie your #2. That's the core we have to keep. Then add a potential #1 in the draft. By trading Stevie you are creating another hole. While I think Woods is a solid player I don't think he can contribute to the extent we need to get out of a #2 guy like what Stevie has produced the last 3 years. Goodwin I can only hope becomes a James Lofton type.

 

I completely agree that it leaves a hole. I just happen to believe that hole to be quite shallow.

[WotAGuy]

It's interesting how the Sully threads always have many people posting that everyone should stop reading his columns. He's the guy people love to hate, yet can't seem to stay away from his work - or his threads!

 

To me, he reads like a guy bored to death with the Bills and their never-changing state. He often refers to the fact it's the same old thing with them, and that it's hard to come up with new ideas/opinions on a very old topic.

 

I used to find him really entertaining on WGR's pregame show when he came on around 8-9 am with Jeremy White. I'd listen to them on my way in from Syracuse and laugh at their banter and especially when Jerry would get all wound up over one argument or another.

 

To me, he's entertaining when arguing a point with someone, whereas his columns reflect his boredom with the recurring state of the Bills.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

I found it!

 

Letting Stevie Walk Would Only Add To The Bills Dysfunction (Dec 4, 2011)

 

And here's another Sully gem:

 

Fitz Deserves To be paid Like A No.1 (Aug 5, 2011)

 

Again, I don't have an issue with Sully changing his position or being negative, etc. I have an issue with pretending he never wrote what he wrote.

 

PTR

 

And now he says that he said just the opposite:

The chatter about winning rings hollow after awhile. Two years ago, when I advocated not re-signing Johnson, I said he had separated from the team one too many times. Now, I’ve lost count.

 

Its one thing to change your mind do to new facts or information. It is totally different flat out lied you said something else.

[Dibs]

Two years ago he wrote a column shaming the Bills to extend Stevie Johnson. Now he's says the Bills overpaid him. Jerry's memory is a little fuzzy these days.

 

http://www.buffalone...stevie-20131211

 

But not really. Jerry knows he wrote a column in support of Johnson. But he doesn't care because, as he pointed out to me in an email he sent to me, it's his job to write about the moment, even if the moment contradicts what he wrote earlier. Years ago I wrote Jerry a chiding email over a column where he blamed Tom Donahoe for drafting that stiff Mike Williams. (The tackle, not the WR.) This even though Jerry lavishly praised the pick and Donahoe after that draft.

 

It irks me. Are you not irked?

 

PTR

 

Having hardly ever read any of his articles, I thought I might have a look and see if I agree/disagree.....and make my own assessment of Mr. Sullivan.

 

My conclusions:

You are 100% correct.

 

If Sullivan had written the article with honour and integrity, rather than written it to get an emotional(negative) response from his readers.....he could have easily worded things slightly differently and still maintained his main editorial point(on SJ ability/character).

 

He could have said something like......

"Though not so long ago it seemed like SJ was a very good WR and a wise investment by the Bills, he has since shown himself to be an expensive liability. With hindsight it was an unfortunate mistake to extend SJ to the contract they did."

 

Instead he made specific points reflecting negatively on the Bills by saying....

 

"He’s a No. 1 receiver in name only. The Bills treated him like one – and overpaid him – because they had no one else to play the part. On most NFL teams, he would be a No. 2 or worse."

 

....and....

 

"They should have let him go after the outrageous 2011 season. Instead, they gave him a five-year, $36.25 million extension. It was a mistake."

 

 

Mr. Sullivan didn't throw Stevie under the bus as there are good reasons to suggest that he has placed himself there.

He did however throw the Bills under the bus as his initial assessment was that they made wise and prudent move to extend SJ......and is now throwing blame at them rather than establishing them as the victim of SJ's self inflicted decline.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Dibs

[Prickly Pete]

Woods and Goodwin will not replace Stevie IMO. They will be solid 3 and 4 guys. Stevie your #2. That's the core we have to keep. Then add a potential #1 in the draft. By trading Stevie you are creating another hole. While I think Woods is a solid player I don't think he can contribute to the extent we need to get out of a #2 guy like what Stevie has produced the last 3 years. Goodwin I can only hope becomes a James Lofton type.

 

Hahahaha....James Lofton of the Hall of Fame?

 

James Lofton was a tall, lanky receiver. Yeah, it would be awesome of Goodwin was a nice deep threat, but he will NEVER be a James Lofton-type receiver. It's funny, because we only got the tail end of his career, but he was one of the greats (and is an excellent radio, color commentator).

[machine gun kelly]

As much I like Stevie Johnson, I hope he plays well enough for the Bills to be able to trade him for a 3rd round pick. While he always has played hard for this team, I think his carefree, fun-loving, loose attitude is not a good model for the Bills young receiving core to emulate. Johnson needs to go to a team that isn't looking for him to be a serious team leader type.

 

Then I'd take either Watkins or Evans in the 1st round, trade the two thirds for a 2nd and use the two 2nd rounders on quality offensive lineman.

 

With Watkins/Evans, Woods and Goodwin then having a solid offensive line for the running game and pass protection, I think the Bills would be ready to finally have the makings for an explosive offense.

 

A 3 rd round pick? I keep reading posts like this one usually in the offseason. There is no team in the NFL that gives us a 3rd. Btw- 4th rounds have an 11% chance of ever becoming a starter. It's silly. SJ had 4 QB's, 2 undrafted free agents, one who's career is most likely over, and another who is a rookie who needed a full pre-season, and a full season which even there should still make some rookie mistakes.

 

I was at the Tampa game and he was horrible. BTW- Peyton Manning was 3-13 his first year. I'm not in any way suggesting he will be anything like Manning. I'm fine with another 1st rd pick high for a QB as they are cheap in the new rookie cap change. But to roast a guy that. Was double teamed the last two years with no second receiver who had back to back 1000 years is crazy.

 

I know everyone is mad about the season and no one more than me, but you don't get rid of your best WR asset with these issues. I do hope we pick up a stud TE basketball player guy early in the draft, as well as a bigger WR steal.

[SoulMan]

Sully is right. SJ is the personification of 4 - 8.

[thebandit27]

Sully is right. SJ is the personification of 4 - 8.

 

Perhaps, but that's not the point that PTR is making...he's asking if the duality of Sullivan's 2011 "pay the man $7M/year" article and his current "why on earth did they pay that man $7M/year?" article irks you?

 

Right or wrong on this occasion, does that duality--wholly absent an admission of wrongfulness on his part back in 2011--irk you?

[ALF]

SJ was good for the Chan and Fitz offense.

[Solomon Grundy]

Everyone who think its time to move SJ13 is deranged! SJ13 is one of the most unguardable WR in the league! I'm tired of the draft this guy to replace SJ13, who's to say they will make the transition to this league. IMO, you just don't get rid of something until you know you have a replacement. It's like quitting your good paying job without having another good paying job lined up. SJ13 is primetime in the league, he just need to stay healthy and adjust his attitude.

[Nuncha]

Pay him or not - at this point of his career SJ13 needs to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

[papazoid]

#1- who cares what sully says or doesn't say. he's paid to stir things up. apparently he's good at it.

 

#2- Stevie Johnsons contract says he isn't going anywhere anytime soon. too much "dead money". it's time to move him to the inside slot WR position.

[JPS]

Perhaps, but that's not the point that PTR is making...he's asking if the duality of Sullivan's 2011 "pay the man $7M/year" article and his current "why on earth did they pay that man $7M/year?" article irks you?

 

Right or wrong on this occasion, does that duality--wholly absent an admission of wrongfulness on his part back in 2011--irk you?

Did he ask "why on earth did you pay $7m/year?", or did he say 'at this point, he may not be worth $7m"?

 

2 different things and I read the latter.