1B4IDie Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Big Ben went to Miami Ohio. In the MAC. A conference that UB is competitive in. A conference Drew Willy won. Miami Ohio has one the conference twice in 30 years. And have 3 bowl games in that time. Being at Tulane is irrelevant Big Ben went to Miami Ohio. In the MAC. A conference that UB is competitive in. A conference Drew Willy won. Miami Ohio has one the conference twice in 30 years. And have 3 bowl games in that time. Being at Tulane is irrelevant The opponents a player plays against in college is very relevant. There are no two ways to that statement. What is irrelevant is a discussion of Big Ben when discussing how craptastic JP LOSSman obviously was at the time of the 2004 draft. Now that is real irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Look back on tom donahoe's tenure (as painful as that may be). The rosters we had were decent back then. I still don't understand why we didn't win more during 2001-2005. Was tom to blame or were the coaches to blame? Seems like we made bolder picks and moves under donahoe compared to the past few years. I'm still puzzled by that period in bills history. As usual try as he might the QB (Bledsoe needed the best line ever) position got him, also he started the trend of bad O-lines and drafting RBs when we had great RBs already. Had Henery he drafted Willis, which led Lynch then Spiller. Wish that went Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers and Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Donahoes biggest mess up was not trading up with Houston to get Roethlisbuger in front of Pittsburgh. Everyone on ESPN was saying that was the rumor, but he thought the price was "too high". 9 years later would you rather have Big Ben or Lee Evans and Losman? Heck, I would have pulled a Ricky Williams and gave up that whole draft for Big Ben. He let Pat Williams go saying he was too old for 3 mill a year when all he did was dominate in Minnesota and make pro bowl after Pro bowl. He couldn't pick a coach to save his life and couldn't draft a stick figure. Simply put his ego was too big to admit he messed up, and instead of being cool he was arrogant, especially to fans. That's what got him chased out of Pittsburgh. It was Cowher or Donahoe. Don't think the Rooneys are regretting that one. Maybe if he had better talent evaluators for the draft it would have been different. But he didn't. And that's on him Houston wasn't willing to trade but Jacksonville was. The asking price was never reported, but was apparently very high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Ol' Whitey was bad. I remember so much B S from him. Never got another NFL job that I recall. I heard him on am sports radio 1 or 2 times last couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Looking at his drafts and the premium rounds his results were mixed. 2001 draft Nate Clements, Aaron Schobel, Travis Henry, Ron Edwards and Jonas Jennings. 2002 Mike Williams, Josh Reed, Ryan Denny and Coy Wire. 2003 Willis McGahee, Chris Kelsay and Angelo Crowell. 2004 Lee Evans JP Losman and Tim Anderson. 2005 Roscoe Parrish and Kevin Everett. Too many misses in this group, only half made significant contributions to the Bills. He had football pedigre but a was a average judge of talent. Not all picks are home runs but but you have to have solid selections in order to build a good team. i'd give him a grade of C as a President/GM. Are any of these players in the league anymore? The Losman trade feels all too similar to the Bills reaching for Manuel... trading up instead of down, but the reach that they must get a QB that year. And the Bills were strength of schedule or one meaningless win away from likely drafting Ben that year, I always remember that. Sigh. I remember Losman being labeled a "primadonna" by teammates at Tulane. Scouts also questioned his accuracy and decision making process. Made most out of busted plays and scrambling ability. Also the Bills didn't give up a first rd pick to acquire Manuel so I wouldn't equate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 (edited) The opponents a player plays against in college is very relevant. There are no two ways to that statement. What is irrelevant is a discussion of Big Ben when discussing how craptastic JP LOSSman obviously was at the time of the 2004 draft. Now that is real irrelevant. Joe Flacco. Rich Gannon. Colin Kaepernick. Edited December 14, 2013 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Passed on Vincent Jackson and took Roscoe Parrish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Joe Flacco. Rich Gannon. Colin Kaepernick. them too?! how do we constantly miss QBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 And he kept insisting that Mike Williams was a quality OL for years, and that Gregg Williams was a great coach. If there's a consistent feature about Donahoe is that he went to great lengths to justify his positions to the rest of the world, even if there was little truth to it. On a side note, I'm sure everyone remembers Levy saying without a hint of irony that Poz was the best LB in the draft. Few took him seriously. Why wouldn't Donahoe defend his actions? Do you think he actually felt Mike Williams was going to be a crappy OT and that Gregg Williams was the worst coach available? What evidence is there that he was trying to torpedo the Bills organization from the inside? Sounds like a great conspiracy theory, but... I really see no reason to think that Donahoe did not believe Losman was better than any QB he saw in the next draft at the time. With the perspective of hindsight, we know with 100% certainty that he and Modrak blew that talent evaluation completely and totally. But that doesn't change the facts on the ground at the time: Donahoe said he thought Losman was a better talent than anybody in the next draft and he aggressively took actions that back that statement to the hilt. But, yes, in retrospect, with Aaron Rodgers flirting with a Hall-of-Fame sort of career, his comments at the time seem absurd, stupid, and foolish. If he didn't even believe himself and was lying to hide ulterior motives, well the joke was on him; he paid the price with his NFL career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I blame Modrak. He was epically bad for a long long time here and ultimately, that was TDs call. Yep. No coincidence that TD's best draft was his first -- the year BEFORE Modrak got here. The best draft since (time will tell, of course) may very well have been this most recent one -- the first one since Modrak left. The Bills traded down in both drafts -- and I cannot recall a single time they traded down when Modrak was here. Of course, they traded up plenty -- for the likes of Denney, Losman, McCargo, Poz, and Levitre. All of them either busts or guys who never made it past their first contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBrad Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Donahoe loved "his" guys. He got rid of quality players already the roster, like Antoine Winfield, Ruben Brown, and Pat Williams, and brought in his own free agents. There were also purges of the coaches and from office staff. It was under Donahoe that we lost our highly regarded strength and conditioning coach Rusty Jones. He hired Modrak as his personnel guy. He took a good team, though one one the decline, and left a complete disaster of a franchise from which we still haven't recovered. He is both a horrible GM and the spawn of Satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Why wouldn't Donahoe defend his actions? Do you think he actually felt Mike Williams was going to be a crappy OT and that Gregg Williams was the worst coach available? What evidence is there that he was trying to torpedo the Bills organization from the inside? Sounds like a great conspiracy theory, but... I really see no reason to think that Donahoe did not believe Losman was better than any QB he saw in the next draft at the time. With the perspective of hindsight, we know with 100% certainty that he and Modrak blew that talent evaluation completely and totally. But that doesn't change the facts on the ground at the time: Donahoe said he thought Losman was a better talent than anybody in the next draft and he aggressively took actions that back that statement to the hilt. But, yes, in retrospect, with Aaron Rodgers flirting with a Hall-of-Fame sort of career, his comments at the time seem absurd, stupid, and foolish. If he didn't even believe himself and was lying to hide ulterior motives, well the joke was on him; he paid the price with his NFL career. Why would you jump to the conclusion that he was trying to torpedo the organization from within? I take every executive's public commentary with a grain of salt, especially one who was trying to drum up the PR spin for a project QB that you just gave up a big draft pick to get. Donahoe defended all his picks to the end, and yes, it was the unbending belief that the picks were good, despite huge evidence to the contrary, that soured his reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Why would you jump to the conclusion that he was trying to torpedo the organization from within? I take every executive's public commentary with a grain of salt, especially one who was trying to drum up the PR spin for a project QB that you just gave up a big draft pick to get. Donahoe defended all his picks to the end, and yes, it was the unbending belief that the picks were good, despite huge evidence to the contrary, that soured his reputation. Well, I was trying to understand the nobody believes GMs anyway comments. Did that mean Donahoe didn't even believe what he said at the time? That he was just showing gamesmanship and spewing nonsense as GMs often typically due before a draft? That doesn't really fit the facts because Donahoe didn't come back the next year and draft a QB, so who did he fool? On the other hand, even if "nobody" were truly inclusive of everyone on the planet except Donahoe, then it is simply irrelevant because Donahoe was calling all the shots in the 2004 and 2005 drafts for the Bills. Looking beyond what Tom Donahoe thought is simple mystification of the issues on the ground at the time. In short, it doesn't really matter if you or I or other posters here thought he may be lying if he believed it himself. And, no matter how truthful he was or wasn't, his actions are open and observable and do not suggest he didn't believe in Losman. In fact, they suggest he believed very much in Losman and it was part of what cost him his job ultimately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I don't believe the football industry attracts the most capable minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Look back on tom donahoe's tenure (as painful as that may be). The rosters we had were decent back then. I still don't understand why we didn't win more during 2001-2005. Was tom to blame or were the coaches to blame? Seems like we made bolder picks and moves under donahoe compared to the past few years. I'm still puzzled by that period in bills history. Tom got rid of some players we should have kept. He hired bad coaches. He could not find a QB. His drafts were poor. No one else hired him either .. what does that say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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