reddogblitz Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Trestman doesn't really count since his team was 10-6 last year. He's an outlier. Andy Reed has done the best obviously. It's good we picked a young guy with fresh ideas over an old retread like Reed. Then there's Kelly who we did try to get. Arians has got his team turned around and in the hunt in a tough division. Then us and the others who aren't doing so well. But, Jacksonville is getting better and on a roll. Since Cleveland beat us, that would lead Marrone bringing up the rear of all new coaches from 2013. Perhaps he subscribes to the Nelson Mandella theory for leading from behind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Andy Reid, Chiefs 10-3 last year, 2-14 Chip Kelly, Eagles 8-5 last year, 4-14 Bruce Ariens, Arizona 8-5 last year 5-11 in the toughest div in the NFC Marc Trestman, Chicago 7-6 last year, 10-6 this team lost its starting QB Jay Cutler for over a month. just smoked the Cowboys 45-28 Mike McCoy, San Diego 6-7 last year 7-9 Gus Bradly, Jacksonville 4-9 last year, 2-14 this team also lost its starting QB. now starting QB, Chad Henne already doubled the wins from last year on a really bad team. what will happen if the bills lose again? Rob Chudzinski, Cleveland 4-9 last year 5-11 lost starting QB, benched backups. Jason Campbell is now the QB. Traded away the starting RB Doug Marrone, Buffalo 4-9 last year 6-10 the team fully healthy and just were blown out by the 3-9 Bucs This time of the year the Bills had the traditional excuse of major injuries across the team. Not this year, the team sucks worse then ever with a healthy crew. (coaching sucks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Little did we know that Spiller would be asked to run up the middle over and over again. With no blocking Fullback to lead the way. Spiller didn't have a good year but he is still an explosive talent. I hope he remains healthy and they continue to develop how they use him. He has had some great runs this year, and some called back for holding away from the play. He is an important part of the offense. I don't want it to sounds like I don't believe that. But Forte is so consistent and productive. Not very heralded, but very reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Bears have had a notoriously bad line for years, and everyone would have said Spiller over Forte before the season. Bears line appears much better than the Bills at run blocking for sure, probably about the same pass blocking. I've seen them dominate up front several games this year alone. Sure, Spiller over Forte from a speed standpoint, but few would argue the fact Forte is the more accomplished player to date.. Just because some Bills fans would overrate Spiller doesn't make it right. The HUGE talent disparity is the Bears WR corps (including TE) vs Bills. It's not even close. RB's don't matter in this league like they used to. Bills WR talent has to be among the leagues worst, it may have been OK if this were the 80's. People continue to vastly overrate the offensive talent on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) I'm all about perspective. Here's some perspective. The Bills pretty much held their own when these 3rd and 4th string QB started for us. No one can deny that these games were nearly winnable and very entertaining, especially with Thad playing. In contrast, the Bills didn't start heading into the NFL bowels until EJ began playing. As for the comment about Gus Bradley, if the Jags play the same Bills who played the last 2 weeks, the Jags would win. Hands down. The Jags have improved over the year, the Bills have regressed. Edited December 11, 2013 by kas23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Trestman doesn't really count since his team was 10-6 last year. He's an outlier. Andy Reed has done the best obviously. It's good we picked a young guy with fresh ideas over an old retread like Reed. Then there's Kelly who we did try to get. Arians has got his team turned around and in the hunt in a tough division. Then us and the others who aren't doing so well. But, Jacksonville is getting better and on a roll. Since Cleveland beat us, that would lead Marrone bringing up the rear of all new coaches from 2013. Perhaps he subscribes to the Nelson Mandella theory for leading from behind? I agree. Bears are an outlier. It was also 15 degrees in Chicago last night with a pretty high scoring game... Doesn't Dallas have the worst D? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Bears line appears much better than the Bills at run blocking for sure, probably about the same pass blocking. I've seen them dominate up front several games this year alone. Sure, Spiller over Forte from a speed standpoint, but few would argue the fact Forte is the more accomplished player to date.. Just because some Bills fans would overrate Spiller doesn't make it right. The HUGE talent disparity is the Bears WR corps (including TE) vs Bills. It's not even close. RB's don't matter in this league like they used to. Bills WR talent has to be among the leagues worst, it may have been OK if this were the 80's. People continue to vastly overrate the offensive talent on this team. + 10000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I didn't say Kelly revolutionized the NFL. What he has done is win, and will probably make the playoffs, with a team that finished with a worse record than the Bills last year. Kelly also deserves credit for giving Foles a chance to play and for developing him, both things that coach of the year candidate Andy Reid largely failed to do last year. Kelly also deserves credit for adapting his system to the NFL and to the players he has on-hand; most people said he couldn't win with a non-running QB like Foles. What has Marrone done to make you think he is a better coach than, say, Mike Mularkey or Dick Jauron? Kelly had no choice with Foles. Kelly's man was Vick, not Foles. I said I don't know what to make of Marrone yet. Why do you keep asking me that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) Not acceptable in the NFL. Not for a fan base that has been though what they have. And they haven't communicated the plan well, but "planning" a washout year is a bad feeling. At least pretend. They did pretend, and the Browns were looking pretty strong for a while. The minute they gave up 2 draft pick positions for better ones in 2014 and signed no significant free agents every knowledgeable fan should have known what was going on. I did, and I'm no especially knowledgeable fan. After they traded T. Richardson it was beyond obvious. FO knows it's unacceptable to the fans, especially ticket sales, but the fans will quickly forgive once the plan starts working. Why would any front office announce a planned rebuilding year? No one ever wants to hear that and no one would respect them for coming out and saying it. At the end of the season, the coaches and FO will know exactly what they have, need and want. That's smart. And they will have a bunch of extra draft picks to leverage. Smart. I have to respect Joe Banner for being ballsy in sticking with the plan. Now, if he can't deliver on his draft picks next year, then there might just be some lynchings. ;-) Edited December 12, 2013 by GaryPinC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 So do we now think Marrone would still be sitting at 4-9 if he was hired by the Bears and inherited Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffrey, and Matt Forte rather than EJ Manuel, Stevie Johnson, Robert Woods, and CJ Spiller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) Bears have had a notoriously bad line for years, and everyone would have said Spiller over Forte before the season. they also invested heavily in that line this year. you dont address that brandon marshall (though troubled off field in the past) is far more talented on the field than stevie jeffery is playing like he would be a #1 on our roster (already better stats than stevies best year) Forte is much like what we wouldve hoped from spiller any given year - averaging about 1100 rushing, 500 receiving and about 8 tds a year (a little bit of projecting that he plays the next 3 games to round those numbers up) and bennett might qualify as our best TE in 20 years. your comparing a perennial playoff contender having their coach fired for not being a super bowl contender, to the disorganization that weve had the last decade. Edited December 11, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) They did pretend, and the Browns were looking pretty strong for a while. The minute they gave up 2 draft pick positions for better ones in 2014 and signed no significant free agents every knowledgeable fan should have known what was going on. I did, and I'm no especially knowledgeable fan. After they traded T. Richardson it was beyond obvious. FO knows it's unacceptable to the fans, especially ticket sales, but the fans will quickly forgive once the plan starts working. Why would any front office announce a planned rebuilding year? No one ever wants to hear that and no one would respect them for coming out and saying it. At the end of the season, the coaches and FO will know exactly what they have, need and want. That's smart. And they will have a bunch of extra draft picks to leverage. Smart. I have to respect Joe Banner for being ballsy in sticking with the plan. Now, if he can't deliver on his draft picks next year, then there might just be some lynchings. ;-) The issue is that they should be in a "win now" mentality. They are riding the last years of Joe Thomas at LT (whose play has dropped off) and who knows how long Haden will be there. The issue is at QB and they did not successfully address it or have a plan to develop Weeden because. Someone said they passed on drafting one because it wasn't a "good QB draft." It is actually because they just picked Weeden in the 1st round the year prior. The fact he didn't progress (actually regressed) puts them a step behind any team who already has one or is developing one. Weeden was a huge bust and at 29, he has a shorter window than the typical rookie. Their previous FO/coach drafted him so the current has no interest in developing him. They don't have a franchise QB, haven't had one for a long, long time, have missed repeatedly on their QB draft picks, and taking a year off is not acceptable. They do have some pieces. They need the QB. They are discussing Cutler at the moment, believe it or not, in the local media. Edited December 12, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 The issue is that they should be in a "win now" mentality. They are riding the last years of Joe Thomas at LT (whose play has dropped off) and who knows how long Haden will be there. The issue is at QB and they did not successfully address it or have a plan to develop Weeden because. Someone said they passed on drafting one because it wasn't a "good QB draft." It is actually because they just picked Weeden in the 1st round the year prior. The fact he didn't progress (actually regressed) puts them a step behind any team who already has one or is developing one. Weeden was a huge bust and at 29, he has a shorter window than the typical rookie. Their previous FO/coach drafted him so the current has no interest in developing him. They don't have a franchise QB, haven't had one for a long, long time, have missed repeatedly on their QB draft picks, and taking a year off is not acceptable. They do have some pieces. They need the QB. They are discussing Cutler at the moment, believe it or not, in the local media. Why should they be in a "win now" (vs "build a winner") ? There was an entire new front office and coaching staff put in place this year. I respect the fact that they did not have a massive roster purge as seems common with changes such as this. Do you really want a perennially losing team to be always in a "win now" mode where they immediately dump the old roster and insist on bringing in their own guys? Also, milking the draft as much as they can even if the talent to fill their needs is not there? "Win now" teams give their coaches 1 to 3 years and dump them. Cleveland and Buffalo have both been in that mode a long time now. Works great, doesn't it? I briefly thought Banner was crazy giving up draft picks until 2014, until I realized what he's trying to do. You and some other fans may not like it, you may think that they're "taking a year off" but he's trying to break the 2-3 year constant turnover that perpetuates losing by holding steady and seeing what they've got and can keep rather than just blowing it up. Hopefully it results in much less roster turnover and correspondingly less needs in the draft. And his top 3 2013 picks are keepers. As far as the QB situation, I don't care why they decided to keep Weeden. In my mind it is smart to give a highly-picked, 2nd year QB a long look, especially in a weak QB draft year. They had an ok plan with Hoyer as backup until he forgot how to slide. I do agree they need a QB and with extra (high) draft picks in a supposedly QB-strong 2014 draft Cleveland should be able to get the QB they want and believe can succeed. Would you really rather have had Banner mortgage off his 2015 draft to get his QB in 2014 or mortgage your 2013 picks and team, in a year they weren't going to contend anyways, for that QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Andy Reid, Chiefs 10-3 last year, 2-14 Chip Kelly, Eagles 8-5 last year, 4-14 Bruce Ariens, Arizona 8-5 last year 5-11 in the toughest div in the NFC Marc Trestman, Chicago 7-6 last year, 10-6 this team lost its starting QB Jay Cutler for over a month. just smoked the Cowboys 45-28 Mike McCoy, San Diego 6-7 last year 7-9 Gus Bradly, Jacksonville 4-9 last year, 2-14 this team also lost its starting QB. now starting QB, Chad Henne already doubled the wins from last year on a really bad team. what will happen if the bills lose again? Rob Chudzinski, Cleveland 4-9 last year 5-11 lost starting QB, benched backups. Jason Campbell is now the QB. Traded away the starting RB Doug Marrone, Buffalo 4-9 last year 6-10 the team fully healthy and just were blown out by the 3-9 Bucs This time of the year the Bills had the traditional excuse of major injuries across the team. Not this year, the team sucks worse then ever with a healthy crew. (coaching sucks) rookie qb and not rookie qb's there is your difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 rookie qb and not rookie qb's there is your difference Except Gus doesn't have a rookie QB and his record is just as bad as Coach Marrone's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 (edited) I heard today on local radio one of the NFL guys, Steve Wyche , i believe giving Frank Reich credit for Phillip Rivers turn around. Whisenhunt and McCoy have worked really well together. I started to think i wonder if the Bills had hired McCoy and Whize and Reich what could our record be? 3 guys with all NFL experience. i got to believe the O would look so much better with proven NFL guys coaching. You guys who say 'Marrone and Hackett are learning how to coach in the NFL' are driving me nuts. You should not hire a coach who needs to learn how to be a NFL coach. The best we can hope for his Marrone realizes he is not cut out to be a HC and resigns. Lord knows the Bills will let him stick around for another 2 years. Edited December 14, 2013 by atlbillsfan1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Kelly lucked into Foles. He had to scrap his "Chip Kelly will revolutionize the NFL Offense" nonsense as soon as Vick predictably went down (before he could suck for another season). Why do other coaches "luck into" good players, while Bills' coaches get stuck with untalented players? Perhaps its time to accept that the Bills have been hiring bad coaches for quite some time, and at this point in the season, appear to have repeated that mistake. Over the years, there's an ever increasing pile of bad Bills players that leave and contribute to other team's success. There's also an ever increasing pile of unknown draft picks producing and contributing to other team's success, while the Bills continue to draft bad players. Marrone is showing to be a marginal HC, at best. And his hiring of Hackett is proving to be a huge mistake. It sucks, I know, but I fail to see how anyone can think Marrone and company have this team heading in any direction other than... same old Bills at this point. Dumb the "run, run, pass" offense down? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 rookie qb and not rookie qb's there is your difference The Bills tried to trade for Alex Smith, and tried to acquire Josh Freeman. They did have the brittle Kevin Kolb in pre season until he tripped over himself and broke something. The point is the Bills entered the season with a rookie QB starting and no experienced depth, entirely their choice! Except Gus doesn't have a rookie QB and his record is just as bad as Coach Marrone's. No, Gus has scrubs at QB worse then rookies in Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne. Funny thing is, gotta wonder which team will win this Sunday.... Trestman is winning with his backup QB Josh McCown. McCoy just beat the best team in the AFC. Marrone is in a race with Chud to see who gets "worst" title this season. Why do other coaches "luck into" good players, while Bills' coaches get stuck with untalented players? Perhaps its time to accept that the Bills have been hiring bad coaches for quite some time, and at this point in the season, appear to have repeated that mistake. Over the years, there's an ever increasing pile of bad Bills players that leave and contribute to other team's success. There's also an ever increasing pile of unknown draft picks producing and contributing to other team's success, while the Bills continue to draft bad players. Marrone is showing to be a marginal HC, at best. And his hiring of Hackett is proving to be a huge mistake. It sucks, I know, but I fail to see how anyone can think Marrone and company have this team heading in any direction other than... same old Bills at this point. Dumb the "run, run, pass" offense down? Really? This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 (edited) Why should they be in a "win now" (vs "build a winner") ? There was an entire new front office and coaching staff put in place this year. I respect the fact that they did not have a massive roster purge as seems common with changes such as this. Do you really want a perennially losing team to be always in a "win now" mode where they immediately dump the old roster and insist on bringing in their own guys? Also, milking the draft as much as they can even if the talent to fill their needs is not there? "Win now" teams give their coaches 1 to 3 years and dump them. Cleveland and Buffalo have both been in that mode a long time now. Works great, doesn't it? I briefly thought Banner was crazy giving up draft picks until 2014, until I realized what he's trying to do. You and some other fans may not like it, you may think that they're "taking a year off" but he's trying to break the 2-3 year constant turnover that perpetuates losing by holding steady and seeing what they've got and can keep rather than just blowing it up. Hopefully it results in much less roster turnover and correspondingly less needs in the draft. And his top 3 2013 picks are keepers. As far as the QB situation, I don't care why they decided to keep Weeden. In my mind it is smart to give a highly-picked, 2nd year QB a long look, especially in a weak QB draft year. They had an ok plan with Hoyer as backup until he forgot how to slide. I do agree they need a QB and with extra (high) draft picks in a supposedly QB-strong 2014 draft Cleveland should be able to get the QB they want and believe can succeed. Would you really rather have had Banner mortgage off his 2015 draft to get his QB in 2014 or mortgage your 2013 picks and team, in a year they weren't going to contend anyways, for that QB? You must not be a Browns fan. Maybe you can come here and give them this pep talk. It is good for fans to hear an objective viewpoint from an "outsider." They want to jump in the bathtub with a toaster and plug it in every Sunday. But to answer your question, 100% to a man, they all want a "win now" FO. They have a top 10 defense going to waste and the previous regime of Holmgren and Heckert screwed them over with Weeden the giving up 4 players to move up one spot for Richardson. Now they have 1 pick in return for him.Weeden being drafted the year the FO and coach get fired is doom for him as the new regime doesn't like him but had no one better. Hoyer was the 3rd stringer, btw. When Weeden got hurt, Hoyer leapfrogged Campbell to be the starter. Presumably, since that was the week after they traded Richardson, they wrre trying ti tank for the #1 pick. Then Hoyer actually won, and people started getting excited. Problem is that he is pretty limited and was bad at MSU which we all saw firsthand when they played OSU and just waiting for him to fall off anyway. He got hurt and back to Weeden and back to suck. The when Campbell had to come in, he actually looked decent and everyone was wondering WTH could they not properly evaluate these QBs in camp? What if Campbell started all along? Same old Browns. Edited December 14, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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