thebandit27 Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 I thought we were something like $20 million under this year? And don't we have glaring holes at guard, tight end, wide receiver and linebacker? Anyways, the point is, it really doesn't matter if EJ develops or not, we seem to have a problem developing a complete team. Whenever we improve one part, we let another part go free with holes. Where we are relative to the cap is only one data point; if you look, league-wide, spending to the cap and putting a winning team on the field have literally no correlation. And I wholly disagree with the bold statement. Again, when you look around the league, the teams with the great QBs compete no matter who's around them. Roster turnover is a fact of life in the salary-cap era; the best teams spend their cap dollars on the most valuable pieces. The Bills' biggest problem in the past is throwing the money at non-difference makers like Kelsay/Evans/etc. I have a good feeling about the way this team will approach things from that standpoint given their choice to let Levitre go instead of giving him $8M/year (an absurd number for an OG that's never sniffed a pro bowl) and instead giving Eric Wood an extension. My guess is that you'll see more of the same coming down the road, with guys like Glenn & Dareus being priority extensions. I continue to feel that if you get it right at QB, you give yourself a LOT of room for error.
Dr. K Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 Despite his bad games, I see lots of potential and some accomplishment already in EJ. I won't say that he's guaranteed to be a franchise-level QB, but I think he's go much more upside than Losman, Edwards, and Fitzpatrick. I just don't understand those people who say he can't throw. And I think there was a lot more going wrong to make the Bills lose badly against Tampa Bay than EJ's admittedly poor play. This board gets hysterical after losses. I guess fourteen years out of the playoffs will do that, but I suggest those of you screaming to draft another QB in round 1 step back from the cliff.
BuffaloBaumer Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 I gotta say, after looking at this, I don't put that game on EJ at all. It was not nearly as bad as I thought during the game.... https://vimeo.com/81595878
BigBuff423 Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 Matt Stafford's rookie year (playing with the best wr in the NFL): 53.3%, 6 ypa, 13 tds, 20 ints. http://www.nfl.com/p...d/79860/profile Those are worse numbers than EJ has playing on a team that doesn't exactly have Calvin Johnson to throw jump passes too (Cue the posters to say you can't look at the stats because they knew Stafford was going to be awesome). Yeah, that was kind of my point...in that, Detroit did start to right the ship and have become a contender in the NFC North, but it took a possible Hall of Fame WR and defeinitely freak of an athlete along with a new legitimate Franchise QB to make that turn, along with good Drafts to follow and some key additions. So, while I'm not in the party ready to anoint EJ as Buffalo's savior, I'm also not ready to burn the bridge he's standing on. I'd rather let next season play out and see what happens. I'm not encouraged by his play, but I try to take all things into account when evaluating the QB position and the team's wins / losses. Furthermore, there are so many teams that will be "QB needy" come Draft time, I think I'd rather see what Manuel brings before spending another high draft choice on QB. Now, that being said...if next year he doesn't demonstrate a true ability to be a good to great QB in the NFL at season's end and evaluating his total body of work, I'm all for drafting a QB at that point. But this team has serious other needs after just drafting the QB "of the future" in last year's Draft.
Dorkington Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 Where we are relative to the cap is only one data point; if you look, league-wide, spending to the cap and putting a winning team on the field have literally no correlation. And I wholly disagree with the bold statement. Again, when you look around the league, the teams with the great QBs compete no matter who's around them. Roster turnover is a fact of life in the salary-cap era; the best teams spend their cap dollars on the most valuable pieces. The Bills' biggest problem in the past is throwing the money at non-difference makers like Kelsay/Evans/etc. I have a good feeling about the way this team will approach things from that standpoint given their choice to let Levitre go instead of giving him $8M/year (an absurd number for an OG that's never sniffed a pro bowl) and instead giving Eric Wood an extension. My guess is that you'll see more of the same coming down the road, with guys like Glenn & Dareus being priority extensions. I continue to feel that if you get it right at QB, you give yourself a LOT of room for error. I agree to a point... but only if the QB is one of those top 5 guys destined for the HoF. Do you seriously expect EJ to be that? I certainly don't. So I'd like to see our team be as complete as possible just in case EJ isn't destined for greatness, as that'd give us the best opportunity for success.
thebandit27 Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 I agree to a point... but only if the QB is one of those top 5 guys destined for the HoF. Do you seriously expect EJ to be that? I certainly don't. So I'd like to see our team be as complete as possible just in case EJ isn't destined for greatness, as that'd give us the best opportunity for success. Top 5? Probably not. I fully agree that the team needs to continue to fill in around EJ, and I suspect that they will. I guess my over-riding point is that whether or not EJ develops into a franchise QB is, IMO, the thing that matters most of all with regard to the state of the team for 2014.
BigBuff423 Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 Top 5? Probably not. I fully agree that the team needs to continue to fill in around EJ, and I suspect that they will. I guess my over-riding point is that whether or not EJ develops into a franchise QB is, IMO, the thing that matters most of all with regard to the state of the team for 2014. Regarding EJ's development: fair and valid point. Especially related to 2014
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 I gotta say, after looking at this, I don't put that game on EJ at all. It was not nearly as bad as I thought during the game.... https://vimeo.com/81595878 I see a LOT of GARBAGE receiver play. Lazy route running, minimal effort. The 3rd and 5 play to Graham - not a great pass, but one that Danny Amendola or Welker come back and dive for. Stevie... SMH. EDIT: He does miss Stevie wide open, left sideline on the Jonathan Banks INT, which is a mistake. Can't blame him for not being confident in SJ though. Play at 6:08 - against Brady that is a late hit. Just sayin'. Also at 6:50.
BuffaloBill Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 I gotta say, after looking at this, I don't put that game on EJ at all. It was not nearly as bad as I thought during the game.... https://vimeo.com/81595878 Looking at those clips I noticed that EJ had happy feet.
Donald Duck Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 Myself personally, EJ has all the tools it takes to become a productive/successful QB in the NFL, and the Buffalo Bills have put together a very solid group of signal callers in Manuel, Lewis and Tuel, at the 1,2,3 but there is no substitute for experience...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 Looking at those clips I noticed that EJ had happy feet. Probably on the account of the men quickly coming to kill him through the porous OL.
BuffaloBaumer Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 Probably on the account of the men quickly coming to kill him through the porous OL. I am starting to think that I want top Oline pick over WR, TE or LB in first round.
Dorkington Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 Top 5? Probably not. I fully agree that the team needs to continue to fill in around EJ, and I suspect that they will. I guess my over-riding point is that whether or not EJ develops into a franchise QB is, IMO, the thing that matters most of all with regard to the state of the team for 2014. You think we'll fill holes over the off season, I assume? I think, just like current history, we'll lose a couple key pieces (don't ask me who), so that even if EJ develops, we'll still struggle as a team. Guess we'll find out.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 You think we'll fill holes over the off season, I assume? I think, just like current history, we'll lose a couple key pieces (don't ask me who), so that even if EJ develops, we'll still struggle as a team. Guess we'll find out. I think the "don't ask me who" part is actually what sinks your claim. We could lose Byrd. But if we do, it should be because we tagged him and someone else offered up a useful piece / pick in trade. Scott Chandler, Alex Carrington, Alan Branch, FJax, Hairston, Aaron Williams, and I believe, Lawson will be eligible for FA (not sure about restricted vs. UFA). Maybe we do lose these guys. I'd like most of them back, but none of them should cost premium dollars. If I had to guess I'd say that Lawson and Chandler might end up elsewhere. FJax could be a wild-card. Maybe the guy just doesn't see a path to the playoffs here and he does deserve one. Stevie might be one of those pieces, and that's a damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition. But none of these guys is irreplaceable. Whatever the case, we have little proof that the Bills won't be in on anybody. The fact is that a losing franchise in a tougher part of the country is not an easy sell no matter the dollar amount. Some you win, like Mario Williams. With others, you don't stand a chance, as with Peyton. If I'm Russ Brandon, I know that my coaching hire is in the balance and that the public image of this team really needs to be fixed by a winning season with a trip to the playoffs, ASAP. I'm in on every FA, hoping to convince a few of them. That said, the way you build is through the draft. Hopefully this regime can get it right.
NewEra Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 Regarding EJ as our franchise QB. He currently is, but like everyone else on our team, his job should not be safe. If we want to hold everyone accountable for their actions, Ej should too the list. Rookie or not. It's the most important position and if the guy we have isn't getting it done, we should always be on the lookout for his replacement. I love his tools, but his ability to read the defense is poor at the moment. Sure, it can get better with experience.....same can be said for all the other 1st rd busts. Just like I say every year....if there's a QB on the board that we're sold on, draft him. Regardless of if our current "franchise" QB was drafted in the first round last year. Unless we have a sure fire very good QB, we need to do our best to make sure we get one. Jmo
Dorkington Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) I think the "don't ask me who" part is actually what sinks your claim. We could lose Byrd. But if we do, it should be because we tagged him and someone else offered up a useful piece / pick in trade. Scott Chandler, Alex Carrington, Alan Branch, FJax, Hairston, Aaron Williams, and I believe, Lawson will be eligible for FA (not sure about restricted vs. UFA). Maybe we do lose these guys. I'd like most of them back, but none of them should cost premium dollars. If I had to guess I'd say that Lawson and Chandler might end up elsewhere. FJax could be a wild-card. Maybe the guy just doesn't see a path to the playoffs here and he does deserve one. Stevie might be one of those pieces, and that's a damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition. But none of these guys is irreplaceable. Whatever the case, we have little proof that the Bills won't be in on anybody. The fact is that a losing franchise in a tougher part of the country is not an easy sell no matter the dollar amount. Some you win, like Mario Williams. With others, you don't stand a chance, as with Peyton. If I'm Russ Brandon, I know that my coaching hire is in the balance and that the public image of this team really needs to be fixed by a winning season with a trip to the playoffs, ASAP. I'm in on every FA, hoping to convince a few of them. That said, the way you build is through the draft. Hopefully this regime can get it right. I agree that the best way to build is through the draft. But with our drafting record, I'm not convinced that we'll fill the possible holes listed above properly. You guys are way more optimistic than I am... I've just seen a FO for the last 14 years not really worry about putting a competitive team on the field. Generally it's enough to sell hope (tickets), but in the end it falls short. Edit: Want to clarify, I don't think anyone we could lose over the offseason is irreplaceable. But I'm of the opinion it's better to keep your decent/good players and ADD to that, rather than lose your decent/good players and have to replace them. Edited December 11, 2013 by Dorkington
NewEra Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 I think the "don't ask me who" part is actually what sinks your claim. We could lose Byrd. But if we do, it should be because we tagged him and someone else offered up a useful piece / pick in trade. Scott Chandler, Alex Carrington, Alan Branch, FJax, Hairston, Aaron Williams, and I believe, Lawson will be eligible for FA (not sure about restricted vs. UFA). Maybe we do lose these guys. I'd like most of them back, but none of them should cost premium dollars. If I had to guess I'd say that Lawson and Chandler might end up elsewhere. FJax could be a wild-card. Maybe the guy just doesn't see a path to the playoffs here and he does deserve one. Stevie might be one of those pieces, and that's a damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition. But none of these guys is irreplaceable. Whatever the case, we have little proof that the Bills won't be in on anybody. The fact is that a losing franchise in a tougher part of the country is not an easy sell no matter the dollar amount. Some you win, like Mario Williams. With others, you don't stand a chance, as with Peyton. If I'm Russ Brandon, I know that my coaching hire is in the balance and that the public image of this team really needs to be fixed by a winning season with a trip to the playoffs, ASAP. I'm in on every FA, hoping to convince a few of them. That said, the way you build is through the draft. Hopefully this regime can get it right. Fred, Hairston and Aaron Williams are all under contract for next season. Lawson is locked up through the 2016 season. 4year 12 mill. Moats is a free agent after this year as well as branch (who I'd love to sign, but Dareus is a FA after next season), chandler and carrington. I can see us letting all of our ufa's walk. Byrd will be interesting.
bisonbrigade Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) To consistently win in the NFL you need a great passing offense. doesn't have to be 5000 yards passing but you need to convert 3rd downs. When it is 3rd and 7 who is the clutch receiver, Stevie "dropies" Johnson, Scott "butter fingers" Chandler, TJ Graham? The Bills need a Big, Tall TE or WR with big hands who can make tough catches to move the chains. They also can use a better Guard and overall OL depth. Edited December 11, 2013 by bisonbrigade
dave mcbride Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 I see a LOT of GARBAGE receiver play. Lazy route running, minimal effort. The 3rd and 5 play to Graham - not a great pass, but one that Danny Amendola or Welker come back and dive for. Stevie... SMH. EDIT: He does miss Stevie wide open, left sideline on the Jonathan Banks INT, which is a mistake. Can't blame him for not being confident in SJ though. Play at 6:08 - against Brady that is a late hit. Just sayin'. Also at 6:50. Watching this made me realize that after the inexcusable alligator arms play (his second drop of the game), Stevie played pretty well the rest of the way. Of course, one could say that Stevie started playing well when the game was essentially over ...
Iraq Vet Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) To all of the people that hope EJ grows, I have one thing to say. Hope is not a plan of action!!! Keep taking 2 QB's in every draft until we have a lights out HOF QB. Some years take them in the 1st and 5th round... other years 3rd and 7th... all depending on all other needs as well. Some years take a 7th and 3 undrafted guys. Just keep taking QB's. EJ might work out... I hope he does, but hope that fails to lead to success is a waste of time. Plan for success. You don't go into battle hoping for success. You plan for it, you have back ups for your back up plan. All plans go awry somewhat. To not plan that EJ stinks is a failure of duty as a front office. Edited December 11, 2013 by Iraq Vet
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