EJ Manuel IS our franchise QB

[filthymcnasty08]

Tampa Bay disagrees.

 

What kind of supporting cast did he have there?....possibly a franchise in worse shape than the Bills of that era.

Edited December 10, 2013 by filthymcnasty08

[C.Biscuit97]

I'm like many people here. I support EJ but haven't really seen anything from him to WOW me yet. I can handle poor efforts like Pittsburgh and Tampa once in a while as long as he occassionally throws a 300 yd 3 TD game in there like other QB's seem to do.

I'm concerned but still want to see what he can do in these last 3 games. I don't care what the O-line looks like or who his receivers are. Have some pocket presence and put the ball on those guys. That's all we can ask. If they drop the ball or deflect it so be it. If he can't do anything on the road then the Bills need to look into bringing in a QB in the offseason to compete with him. Jason Campbell just threw for a bunch of yards at New England. He should be able to light up the Jags and Pats if he has any promise.

 

So if he threw for 4 more yards against a top 3 defense like Carolina, you'd be impressed?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

rookie QBR for recent Super Bowl winning QBs:

 

55.4 Eli

42.4 Brady only a few throws

94.8 Brees (followed by, 76.6 yr2 and 67.5 yr3)

39.8 Rodgers

71.6 Peyton

80.3 Flacco

98.1 Ben

 

The prevailing message here is we don't know yet, you can't tell after one dam rookie season.

 

He's made some great throws. The two vs New England week one, deep to MG, 25 yd ins to woodsy, slants crosses, fades, and he's got swagger and is willing to work.

 

Next year he may well be a top 10 QB.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

He was on Tampa Bay before the 49ers and struggled to complete 55% of his passes.

 

Different era.

 

50% used to be a decent day.

 

Not anymore.

 

EJ is not only one of the least accurate passers in the NFL(PFF says THE least accurate)........but he also has one of the lowest yards per attempt in the NFL. Basically he throws a lot underneath and still is not very accurate. That is very discouraging to see even out of a rookie.

[zow2]

So if he threw for 4 more yards against a top 3 defense like Carolina, you'd be impressed?

 

You know what i mean. Besides against Carolina they dinked and dunked their way down the field then got the big PI penalty. Prior to that it was strip fumble and an INT in the 4th Qtr. Not exactly a banner 4th Qtr but yes a great ending.

[Rob's House]

The EJ apologists will do better if they keep it simple and quit spewing bull **** all over the board. If you say he's still green & might yet develop into a good QB then you can maintain some credibility, but these excuses are getting nauseating.

 

The next time I read "HE'S A ROOKIE" I may vomit on my screen. Thanks for that gem, but somehow I figured that out. If he weren't, half the fanbase would want him cut yesterday. As is, MOST are only suggesting a back up plan.

 

And what's with the guy's claiming a 9-12 game sample is meaningless? This has got to be the dumbest thing that gets tossed around here (although comparing EJ's stats to stats from the 1980s is certainly in the running). That sample doesn't tell you everything, but it tells you a hell of a lot. To listen to half the crowd around here, that sample tells the staff nothing more than they knew on day 1. If that's true your coaching staff should be shot (or at least fired).

 

Do yourselves a favor and accept the truth. EJ might yet turn the corner, but there's plenty of valid evidence that suggests there's a good likelihood he won't.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

If you've watched the Bills this whole season and think EJ throws the ball consistently well then you're just clueless. The QBs in this league that are good enough to compete for Super Bowls don't miss the throws he consistently misses at this point.

 

What is troubling is that when a Qb enters the league, generally he is either able to make the throws or he can't, and they rarely develop the ability if they don't have it. I watched the kid a ton in college and every snap of his NFL career and I don't see it.

 

Can't throw vs can't throw consistently are two entirely different accusations. Clueless? Watch Eli play his rookie year if you want to see clueless.

 

He was a phenomenal passer at FSU. Historically good. Accurate and high YPA. Nice deep ball and a very good comb of touch and zip.

 

His arm is fan-effing-tastic...

 

The problems he will fix or he won't is his footwork, anticipation and reads. The game speed slows down once you get used to competing at a higher level or it doesn't and you never make it. That typically works with confidence.

[thebandit27]

You know what i mean. Besides against Carolina they dinked and dunked their way down the field then got the big PI penalty. Prior to that it was strip fumble and an INT in the 4th Qtr. Not exactly a banner 4th Qtr but yes a great ending.

 

I'm not comparing the two players, but using big picture thinking, how was Brady's 4th quarter until the ending on Sunday?

 

The EJ apologists will do better if they keep it simple and quit spewing bull **** all over the board. If you say he's still green & might yet develop into a good QB then you can maintain some credibility, but these excuses are getting nauseating.

 

The next time I read "HE'S A ROOKIE" I may vomit on my screen. Thanks for that gem, but somehow I figured that out. If he weren't, half the fanbase would want him cut yesterday. As is, MOST are only suggesting a back up plan.

 

And what's with the guy's claiming a 9-12 game sample is meaningless? This has got to be the dumbest thing that gets tossed around here (although comparing EJ's stats to stats from the 1980s is certainly in the running). That sample doesn't tell you everything, but it tells you a hell of a lot. To listen to half the crowd around here, that sample tells the staff nothing more than they knew on day 1. If that's true your coaching staff should be shot (or at least fired).

 

Do yourselves a favor and accept the truth. EJ might yet turn the corner, but there's plenty of valid evidence that suggests there's a good likelihood he won't.

 

why does everything need to be an "us vs. them" situation? Isn't it possible that people are taking a wait-and-see approach without being "apologists"?

 

I swear sometimes with this board...

[Delete This Account]

since someone still thinks i'm a respected poster on this site -- see some remark on Off the Wall (the guy musta been drunk) -- figured i'd weigh in on EJ.

in my opinion and upon my observations, he's shown very little progress since he first arrived.

he's not consistent in making all the throws (minicamp observation). he looks sometimes harried under pressure (training camp scrimmage against No. 1 defense). there are times when he finds a rhythm and goes with it (final first-half drive against Indy in preseason, drive against Carolina, etc. etc)

 

i wrote something on twitter in August that i was encouraged by EJ's performance against Indy, but said there's still a lot of work to do. and added that i would have much preferred seeing him produce the TD drive on the Bills first possession of the game rather than their last possession of the first half.

strange as it was, i was villified by some for making such a statement.

 

others have questioned my motives in regards to questioning EJ's accountability for coming up with some lame excuse as to how he got hurt against Cleveland. he called it "a freak accident." i suggested on WGR that it was no such thing. he contributed to putting himself in harms way and lost 4-plus games of development time because of it. when he should have been starting to find his groove in October, he was instead sidelined.

again, some questioned me for making such a statement.

 

fine.

these were mere observations and open to being debated.

that said, there's more of a body of work to judge him on now, and the picture remains relatively muddled.

 

i believe EJ, like most rookies, needs an offseason away from the game to digest what took place, how he handled himself, and what needs to be corrected.

i also believe we'll have a far clearer picture on EJ next October in determining whether he has a chance to be "the franchise guy."

so far, that's not apparent.

 

jw

[IronyAbounds]

The jury is still out on EJ, maybe he will develop and suddenly develop the accuracy that was missing in college and thus far in his fledgling NFL career. Even though it was a stupid pick, they made so they need to find out if it will pan out. What concerns me the most is Marrone saying they may have to simplify the playbook for EJ. I mean, wtf, they have been coddling him all year, and now they want to make it even simpler? That is a big warning flag.

[PearlHowardman]

Let me get this straight...you rail against Russ Brandon for cronyism in hiring Doug Marrone, but you're in favor of drafting Marrone & Hackett's college QB?

 

That's some serious dichotomy right there.

 

You are correct. Watching this hopelessly incompetent football organization/team has done that to me.

[Rob's House]

 

why does everything need to be an "us vs. them" situation? Isn't it possible that people are taking a wait-and-see approach without being "apologists"?

 

I swear sometimes with this board...

 

There are some, not saying you're one of them, that have become insufferable on the issue.

[thebandit27]

You are correct. Watching this hopelessly incompetent football organization/team has done that to me.

 

No it hasn't; you want accountability from the team? Take some for yourself.

 

Those two opinions are wholly divergent and make no sense.

 

There are some, not saying you're one of them, that have become insufferable on the issue.

 

Sorry man...I'm not trying to direct my frustration at you personally; I just get tired of the "apologists vs. realists", "haters vs. kool-aid drinkers" crappola that I read on here.

[Delete This Account]

No it hasn't; you want accountability from the team? Take some for yourself.

 

Those two opinions are wholly divergent and make no sense.

 

 

 

Sorry man...I'm not trying to direct my frustration at you personally; I just get tired of the "apologists vs. realists", "haters vs. kool-aid drinkers" crappola that I read on here.

 

i coined "EJ apologists" on my Twitter account back in August. not sure if i was first but ...

trouble is, many have latched on to EJ as the "savior" and avoided looking at blemishes. on the flip side,many have unlatched themselves from EJ and only see the negatives. this is a work in progress.

i'm still somewhere in the middle, for now.

 

jw

[thebandit27]

i coined "EJ apologists" on my Twitter account back in August. not sure if i was first but ...

trouble is, many have latched on to EJ as the "savior" and avoided looking at blemishes. on the flip side,many have unlatched themselves from EJ and only see the negatives. this is a work in progress.

i'm still somewhere in the middle, for now.

 

jw

 

I feel that anyone placing themselves anywhere other than "somewhere in the middle" is off their rocker.

 

What a young player shows, in terms of improvement, from year 1 to year 2 tells you more about his ability than perhaps any other performance metric.

 

That's what I'm waiting to see.

[BuffaloBill]

since someone still thinks i'm a respected poster on this site -- see some remark on Off the Wall (the guy musta been drunk) -- figured i'd weigh in on EJ.

 

jw

 

John thank you very much for sharing...

 

As a mod I remind the forum that respectfully disagreeing with the information or opinions John presented is fair game. Attacking him or journalists more broadly is not. If you don't understand the difference let those who do comment first. The mods will be monitoring this closely - Bill

[C.Biscuit97]

i coined "EJ apologists" on my Twitter account back in August. not sure if i was first but ...

trouble is, many have latched on to EJ as the "savior" and avoided looking at blemishes. on the flip side,many have unlatched themselves from EJ and only see the negatives. this is a work in progress.

i'm still somewhere in the middle, for now.

 

jw

 

With all due respect, I really haven't seen many calling EJ a savior. I think people love the guy's mental and physical makeup & want him to be the guy. Most rational people realize that giving up on a 1st round Qb after 9 games with some of the circumstances (the 2 injuries) is sort of crazy.

[thebandit27]

John thank you very much for sharing...

 

As a mod I remind the forum that respectfully disagreeing with the information or opinions John presented is fair game. attacking him or journalists more broadly is not. If you don't understand the difference let those who do comment first. The mods will be monitoring this closely - Bill

 

Not to make a mountain, but shouldn't those standards apply to ALL posters?

[BADOLBILZ]

i coined "EJ apologists" on my Twitter account back in August. not sure if i was first but ...

trouble is, many have latched on to EJ as the "savior" and avoided looking at blemishes. on the flip side,many have unlatched themselves from EJ and only see the negatives. this is a work in progress.

i'm still somewhere in the middle, for now.

 

jw

 

The question IMO is whether he has warranted enough to go into next season without competition from another potential franchise QB.

 

My feeling is absolutely not. And if having a Bridgewater/Manziel/Carr or similar prospect come in knocks EJ off his game then EJ wasn't the QB we were looking for anyway.

 

To me, EJ has the look of a guy who might need a lot of time in the league.

 

He has real potential, but real problems that extend beyond the category of just needing the game to "slow down" for him. Among them is that he is all arms and legs.....he has the wingspan of an 7' tall man.....and repeating a motion is a struggle for him in the same way it was a struggle for Randy Johnson who took until he was 30 years old to be able to throw the ball where he wanted to from the mound.

[John from Riverside]

The EJ apologists will do better if they keep it simple and quit spewing bull **** all over the board. If you say he's still green & might yet develop into a good QB then you can maintain some credibility, but these excuses are getting nauseating.

 

The next time I read "HE'S A ROOKIE" I may vomit on my screen. Thanks for that gem, but somehow I figured that out. If he weren't, half the fanbase would want him cut yesterday. As is, MOST are only suggesting a back up plan.

 

And what's with the guy's claiming a 9-12 game sample is meaningless? This has got to be the dumbest thing that gets tossed around here (although comparing EJ's stats to stats from the 1980s is certainly in the running). That sample doesn't tell you everything, but it tells you a hell of a lot. To listen to half the crowd around here, that sample tells the staff nothing more than they knew on day 1. If that's true your coaching staff should be shot (or at least fired).

 

Do yourselves a favor and accept the truth. EJ might yet turn the corner, but there's plenty of valid evidence that suggests there's a good likelihood he won't.

 

No more ridiculous then the spewing of how he is a bust and hasnt even finished his first year.....

 

by the way.....in case you cant figure it out....being a ROOKIE and being "green" are the same damn thing.....Duh?

 

And yes...injuries are a valid excuse because he was starting to really come on when he got hurt in that Cleveland game.....then went down....then came back in....and now he is up and down. Confidence is a big thing to a QB.

 

There is EASILY enough to excuse up and down play from a rookie QB....and that is before you factor in injuries, injuries to his receivers, and veteran players not doing THEIR jobs around him.