C.Biscuit97 Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 Through nine games, Russell Wilson had a rating of 87.2. He had a 62.0 percent completion rate, a TD-INT ratio of 13-8, and a YPA of 7.0. Manuel, through nine games, has a rating of 75.4 a ypa of 6.3, a 9-8 TD-INT ratio, and a 57.8 percent completion rate. Wilson was clearly better. Plus he was a significantly better runner last year than Manuel is this year. I compared them last week after 8 games. Clearly, Manuel's 4 int game killed his stats. But prior to the TB game, he was 10 td to 4 int ratio with is pretty damn good. Wilson is borderline top 5 QB right now. The point was he wasn't lighting up the league at first but Seattle allowed him to settle into the role. If the defense holds the lead against NE and ATL, this would be an entirely different conversation about EJ. I don't know how strong of a class it will be but I am pretty confident that 4 or 5 guys that are coming out this year will grade higher & would of been drafted sooner if they were in the same draft as Manuel. An Athlon preview for College Football this year a scout said about Aaron Murray , "I went to the combine, studied all the QBS in the draft & none of the QB's in this past draft have anything on Aaron Murray." Bridgewater, Manzel, Price & Boyd I believe also would of been taken higher the Manuel if they were in the draft. Come draft time, they will all be ripped apart. For Murray, it will be be is not ideal sized and came up short in big games. Same pretty much for Boyd. Price is very inconsistent and not sure how he would be considered a better prospect than Manuel. Who did Bridgewater play against in college? Watch, it happens every year except for Luck. Every girl seems hotter than your wife/ girlfriend.
CodeMonkey Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 I am no great evaluator of QB talent, but when I look at Manuel I do not see a budding franchise or elite QB. I see very bad footwork, a strong but inaccurate arm, and bad reads. The reads can come with experience, and he has already learned to go out of bounds or slide. But when I look at Manuel I do not see a Luck, or a Manning, or a Brees, or a Brady. What I see is a very strong, athletic QB like Vick (minus the dog killer). His bad mechanics worry me. He seems like a nice kid and a hard worker and I certainly hope he manages to get everything sorted out. Vick has never impressed me as a QB. I hope Manuel ends up considerably better.
The Big Cat Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 To the people who keep paroting to continue taking QBs in the 1st round "until you find one" - If you dont put blue chip talent around the QB.....it isnt gonna matter - If you dont stop for a second and try to groom a 1st round pick QB.....you will never know if you have something and will just continue to repeat the cycle over and over and over I maintain this....I seriously dont think the plan from the jump was to start EJ Manuel.....I think they wanted to start Kolb and ease Manuel in....... but....here we are......so....... I think the same thing. EJ isnt NFL ready. He's a half-second slow. They wanted a vet who could rock and fire. I'd sprint to the podium. And he may very well be there. I'm a Murray fan for sure. I'm OK with that and would have been fine with him in the first last year if he'd been there. Yes yes and yes
Dibs Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 First I like EJ, he's a good kid. and no I 'm not giving up on him. But last year was a weak QB class, everybody knows this. EJ was part of that class. If this years QB class is stronger, and you have a top 5 draft pick and you see a guy you like and you think he upgrades the position I say I would not have a problem with it. Say if the guy comes in and he is Russell Wilson 2.0. Now you have 2 good QB's which is way better than having 1 you think- hope- maybe able to do it. ...... Why does everybody keep talking about the strength of the QB draft class as though it somehow elevates or diminishes the talent of all QBs in the class? As if all QBs will be poorer in a weak class and all QBs will be better in a strong class. A strong class might have 3 super prospects who all get selected in the top 5......this does not mean that the guy selected at #16(or #75) is going to be any better a prospect than had he been in a different class. A weak class might have no super prospects......and only one guy who is graded as a 1st rounder......this does not mean that that one guy is going to be a worst prospect than had there been 3 QBs selected ahead of him in the top 10. Though many people are incensed over Wilson......the facts are that no team selects a QB in the 3rd round and has any real expectations or even many hopes that he will turn into a star QB(let alone quickly do so).
FireChan Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 Why does everybody keep talking about the strength of the QB draft class as though it somehow elevates or diminishes the talent of all QBs in the class? As if all QBs will be poorer in a weak class and all QBs will be better in a strong class. A strong class might have 3 super prospects who all get selected in the top 5......this does not mean that the guy selected at #16(or #75) is going to be any better a prospect than had he been in a different class. A weak class might have no super prospects......and only one guy who is graded as a 1st rounder......this does not mean that that one guy is going to be a worst prospect than had there been 3 QBs selected ahead of him in the top 10. Though many people are incensed over Wilson......the facts are that no team selects a QB in the 3rd round and has any real expectations or even many hopes that he will turn into a star QB(let alone quickly do so). Why does everybody keep talking about the strength of the QB draft class as though it somehow elevates or diminishes the talent of all QBs in the class? As if all QBs will be poorer in a weak class and all QBs will be better in a strong class. A strong class might have 3 super prospects who all get selected in the top 5......this does not mean that the guy selected at #16(or #75) is going to be any better a prospect than had he been in a different class. A weak class might have no super prospects......and only one guy who is graded as a 1st rounder......this does not mean that that one guy is going to be a worst prospect than had there been 3 QBs selected ahead of him in the top 10. Though many people are incensed over Wilson......the facts are that no team selects a QB in the 3rd round and has any real expectations or even many hopes that he will turn into a star QB(let alone quickly do so). Actually a bunch of teams really liked Wilson, but no one was willing to invest that high of a pick to a short QB. 2-3 inches taller and he would've been 1st round.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 Why does everybody keep talking about the strength of the QB draft class as though it somehow elevates or diminishes the talent of all QBs in the class? As if all QBs will be poorer in a weak class and all QBs will be better in a strong class. A strong class might have 3 super prospects who all get selected in the top 5......this does not mean that the guy selected at #16(or #75) is going to be any better a prospect than had he been in a different class. A weak class might have no super prospects......and only one guy who is graded as a 1st rounder......this does not mean that that one guy is going to be a worst prospect than had there been 3 QBs selected ahead of him in the top 10. Though many people are incensed over Wilson......the facts are that no team selects a QB in the 3rd round and has any real expectations or even many hopes that he will turn into a star QB(let alone quickly do so). Strong QB's at the top of the class often cause other talented QB's to slip. Especially because the teams looking for QB's are usually in the top 10 or so. Then when you get a situation where teams reached the year before for QB's......as was the case with Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker and especially Christian Ponder.......then you get guys dropping entire rounds the following year. Which is how Russell Wilson and Nick Foles easily dropped in the 2012 draft. This doesn't happen with most positions for the simple reason that most positions teams require two or more starters. Somebody is always there to jump on that value CB, for example. So a strong bunch of headliners in a draft can provide the opportunity to pick up talented QB's later. My guess is that EJ Manuel would have been a 3rd or maybe even 4th round pick in this upcoming draft. That would be a misrepresenation of his value.....but that is the nice thing about a strong group of QB's.....if you miss on the premium prospect you may still get a chance at a very good one in rounds 2-4.
Bill from NYC Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 Strong QB's at the top of the class often cause other talented QB's to slip. Especially because the teams looking for QB's are usually in the top 10 or so. Then when you get a situation where teams reached the year before for QB's......as was the case with Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker and especially Christian Ponder.......then you get guys dropping entire rounds the following year. Which is how Russell Wilson and Nick Foles easily dropped in the 2012 draft. This doesn't happen with most positions for the simple reason that most positions teams require two or more starters. Somebody is always there to jump on that value CB, for example. So a strong bunch of headliners in a draft can provide the opportunity to pick up talented QB's later. My guess is that EJ Manuel would have been a 3rd or maybe even 4th round pick in this upcoming draft. That would be a misrepresenation of his value.....but that is the nice thing about a strong group of QB's.....if you miss on the premium prospect you may still get a chance at a very good one in rounds 2-4. Do you think that Murray and/or McCarron will jump into round 1? I am sensing that they both will but it is hard to gauge.
thebandit27 Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 Do you think that Murray and/or McCarron will jump into round 1? I am sensing that they both will but it is hard to gauge. My opinion is that this upcoming class will strongly resemble the 2010 QB class, with one guy going #1 overall (Bridgewater) and only one other QB picked in the first round (Manziel). Obviously that could change with bowl games, all star games, and workouts, but that's my outlook at the moment.
Bill from NYC Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 My opinion is that this upcoming class will strongly resemble the 2010 QB class, with one guy going #1 overall (Bridgewater) and only one other QB picked in the first round (Manziel). Obviously that could change with bowl games, all star games, and workouts, but that's my outlook at the moment. I respect your opinion but do strongly disagree. The NFL is like the Arena League at this point. Everything hinges on the quarterback. It makes zero sense to not take a shot at finding a top qb, especially with the new CBA. Manuel was a first round pick. He was the first QB selected and he costs pennies. Based on what he has shown it would be silly for the Bills to not take another shot at a good QB, or so I think.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 Do you think that Murray and/or McCarron will jump into round 1? I am sensing that they both will but it is hard to gauge. I don't think either will go in round 1 but a lot will depend on how they look in the buildup to the draft. There was very little thought of Manuel going in round 1 at this point last year.
Bill from NYC Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 I don't think either will go in round 1 but a lot will depend on how they look in the buildup to the draft. There was very little thought of Manuel going in round 1 at this point last year. I hear ya. And btw, I think that the Bills would be well served to draft either one of them. I am thinking that they both have at least as much potential as does Manuel.
bisonbrigade Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 The Bills are NOT drafting a QB, so take a deep breath and be patient. EJ could be very good, give him a chance. He is a rookie, so missed time twice with injuries. The jury is still out on him good or bad.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 The Bills are NOT drafting a QB, so take a deep breath and be patient. EJ could be very good, give him a chance. He is a rookie, so missed time twice with injuries. The jury is still out on him good or bad. We really have no idea if they will or won't so save your emphatic guarantees. Trent Edwards was drafted after a promising first year performance by JP Losman. Marrone and Whaley don't have enough time to give away another entire season to the likes of Tuel and Thad Lewis in the event that EJ doesn't suddenly become an accurate passer.
FireChan Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 We really have no idea if they will or won't so save your emphatic guarantees. Trent Edwards was drafted after a promising first year performance by JP Losman. Marrone and Whaley don't have enough time to give away another entire season to the likes of Tuel and Thad Lewis in the event that EJ doesn't suddenly become an accurate passer. I expect them to bring in a vet. Who knows, a vet guiding EJ might be as fruitful as drafting another guy.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 I expect them to bring in a vet. Who knows, a vet guiding EJ might be as fruitful as drafting another guy. I feel strongly that they will not bring back the same guys they have this year. Tuel and Lewis just lack upside. But I don't want a retread or a 35 year old Luke McCown with no future. That guy will almost invariably outperform a young QB in camp and the players on the team will want that guy to play. What I want to see is a battle between young, franchise type QB's in camp. And I want that pressure to be there every year. Having a promising young QB on the sideline has never made a veteran QB play worse, IMO.
FireChan Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 I feel strongly that they will not bring back the same guys they have this year. Tuel and Lewis just lack upside. But I don't want a retread or a 35 year old Luke McCown with no future. That guy will almost invariably outperform a young QB in camp and the players on the team will want that guy to play. What I want to see is a battle between young, franchise type QB's in camp. And I want that pressure to be there every year. Having a promising young QB on the sideline has never made a veteran QB play worse, IMO. Tuel might give a challenge to EJ.
NickelCity Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 EJ is not MY franchise qb. #don'ttreadonme Ha!
KGUNBILLS Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 I'll bet you $100 if you can find anything before the draft about me wanting to draft Spiller. I want Bryan Bulaga. And I'm very happy to admit I'm wrong because Bulaga is very average, Spiller has the potential to be one of the top weapons in the NFL, and Lynch is a complete idiot. And you can play 2 rbs together. You don't give up on a QB after one year. We might have a top 5 pick. How is that improving the team if we use that valuable resource on another QB? What if the new guy struggles, like most rookies? We spend another 1st round pick on a QB? You give EJ another year and if it's clear he's not the answer, draft a guy the following draft. But if your coaching staff flip flops on a QB they picked in the 1st round after a year, then that's not coaching staff you want. The only problem with waiting that I can clearly see, is the talent pool. This next draft has a significantly much higher talented group at the QB position than the last draft. You have to strike while the iron is hot. I hope Buffalo doesn't let the grass grow under their feet. This next draft may just be the most important one yet, with all the talk of NFL teams in the UK, and possibly Canada. As it is right now, our team is some very low hanging fruit. Success would add value, making it more difficult to purchase the team and move it elsewhere. Tuel might give a challenge to EJ. I've thought that too. It doesn't look good on the FO part when the UDFA rookie puts up more YPG in one game than the star 1st rounder does in three. Doesn't look good at all.
dave mcbride Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 I feel strongly that they will not bring back the same guys they have this year. Tuel and Lewis just lack upside. But I don't want a retread or a 35 year old Luke McCown with no future. That guy will almost invariably outperform a young QB in camp and the players on the team will want that guy to play. What I want to see is a battle between young, franchise type QB's in camp. And I want that pressure to be there every year. Having a promising young QB on the sideline has never made a veteran QB play worse, IMO. What, you're not expecting Kolb to make a big comeback??
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