EJ Manuel IS our franchise QB

[thebandit27]

This arguement seems to be devolving into a "You're with us or you're against us!" format. That isn't what I believe. Manuel should get is chance to develop and to try and prove himself - and I think he'll get that opportunity. But it shouldn't be without competition, whether that is from free agency, the draft or even a trade. He may prove himself, but he hasn't yet and putting all of the team's eggs into that one basket looks very unwise at the moment. Besides, a starting NFL QB should be able to handle some competition. If they can't, then that tells you all you need to know about them.

 

Unfortunately, 99% of the arguments on this board do that.

 

This one, however, I sense some middle ground. Personally, I wholly agree with your take here.

[Iraq Vet]

Brady was found in the 7th, right? Just keep drafting one every year, no matter what round.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Iraq Vet

[C.Biscuit97]

Unfortunately, 99% of the arguments on this board do that.

 

This one, however, I sense some middle ground. Personally, I wholly agree with your take here.

 

Agree 100% and it's very annoying. It's how people argue politics, religion, etc. It's why discussions go no where.

 

I don't know if EJ is the long term answer. I know he's had good moments and he had bad moments. I personally believe it's foolish to draft another QB in next year's draft in the first 2 rounds. You need to add more talent to this team and those likely will be high picks. There is zero guarantee this is a stronger class. Zero. However if a guy like Aaron Murray was there in the 3rd, I'm fine with drafting him. But I think EJ deserves at least one more year and then you evaluate after next season.

[Steve in Carolina]

You notice in Seattle's scenario they didn't bring in a bunch of rookies who all needed snaps and game time to get to an acceptable level. They brought in a bunch of vets and drafted Wilson. It looks smart in the end because Wilson has turned into a top flight QB while riding a dominant D and running game in his first few seasons.

 

One could look at the Bills and say they did the same thing as Seattle. They brought in Kolb, Leinart, Lewis, drafted EJ, picked up a rookie prospect in Tuel and took a shot at signing Alex Smith. The difference here is that none of them have produced on the field yet. I have no doubt they'll bring in somebody else next year, either a rookie they draft (though not in the first round) or another vet. All the while EJ will be getting live reps.

 

Personally I just don't think brining in another 1st round pick is the answer. Both guys need reps and live action to get to the point where they need and only one of them is going to get it. Along the way that guy is going to make all kinds of mistakes - it's what rookies do. If you have a QB who is looking over his shoulder he's not going to be confident and he's going to be afraid of making mistakes and those mistakes, like it or not, are what enable QBs to get better. In any facet of life it's the mistakes that you learn from. Get two QBs on the roster who aren't getting the reps they need and are afraid of making mistakes when they do get reps and it's a recipe for neither guy developing. And then what do you do, turn around and draft another QB in the 1st because those guys aren't panning out?

 

There's a reason NFL guys do it the way they do and not the way impatient fans on this board are clamoring for.

Ya. Somone that is actually thinking.

[dave mcbride]

What I'm afraid of is these guys will buy into some outdated philosophy where they go all in on "their guy" and sit on their hands while he "develops" for 2-3 years when they should take the approach Seattle did.

 

Seattle didn't luck into a good QB. They played the numbers game and addressed the position aggressively until they got their guy. They took a few swings and misses along the way, but they kept on trying until they got it right. They traded a 4th for Charlie Whitehurst, brought in Tarvaris Jackson, took a shot at signing Peyton Manning, signed Matt Flynn, and drafted Russell Wilson. It didn't just happen by accident.

 

If you pick a guy and decide he gets 2-3 years to develop, you've decided there's a better than average chance your team won't be good for at least 3-4 years.. You got a guy you think can play? Great. Draft another one just in case. Bring in FA competition. If your guy works out then who cares. If he doesn't work out, you've got another guy or 2 that have been practicing with the team and learning the system so you're not starting back at square 1. The point is, you don't sit back and coast until you KNOW you have your guy - and even then it's nice to have a good back up.

 

Excellent post.

 

amen...

 

Look at the opposite .. Trade for Rob Johnson nope, get flutie nope, trade for Bledsoe, nope draft Losman nope, draft Trentative, nope, Try a bunch of retreads including Fitzy nope, draft EJ ....

 

How long does this need to go on?

 

The Bills went all in on Todd Collins and abandoned him after one season of starting (year 2 of his career). They went aggressive and quickly obtained two new QBs. So, following a 6-10 season in which Collins was the starter, they went 11-5 twice in a row with the new QBs (I always count the just give it to 'em game as a Bills victory).

[C.Biscuit97]

Excellent post.

 

You're ignoring the fact that Seattle method was nothing like people are suggesting with the Bills. Seattle brought in a couple free agents and spent 2 3rd round picks on QBs. People are wanting the Bills to spend another high pick on a QB the year after spending a 1st on one. That is completely different. And Seattle stuck with Wilson even with very similar stats that EJ has now (I know, I know. Everyone knew Wilson was going to be great after he threw 3 ints against the Lions).

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Anyone think AJ McCaron will fall out of the 1st round?

 

I would love to see him in a Bills jersey but dont think he would fall far enough to justify the Bills drafting him.

 

CBF

[C.Biscuit97]

Anyone think AJ McCaron will fall out of the 1st round?

 

I would love to see him in a Bills jersey but dont think he would fall far enough to justify the Bills drafting him.

 

CBF

 

If AJ McCarron could get to sit in the pocket like he does in Alabama, I'd be all for it. The guy is in the best situation in the country. QBs and RBs from Alabama get rude awakenings in the NFL when they start getting hit. The only one recently who has amounted to anything is Eddie Lacy and he plays with Aaron rodgers.

[SmokinES3]

 

 

Different era.

 

50% used to be a decent day.

 

Not anymore.

 

EJ is not only one of the least accurate passers in the NFL(PFF says THE least accurate)........but he also has one of the lowest yards per attempt in the NFL. Basically he throws a lot underneath and still is not very accurate. That is very discouraging to see even out of a rookie.

Reality... thank you.

[GG]

You're ignoring the fact that Seattle method was nothing like people are suggesting with the Bills. Seattle brought in a couple free agents and spent 2 3rd round picks on QBs. People are wanting the Bills to spend another high pick on a QB the year after spending a 1st on one. That is completely different. And Seattle stuck with Wilson even with very similar stats that EJ has now (I know, I know. Everyone knew Wilson was going to be great after he threw 3 ints against the Lions).

 

I don't think that anyone who's comparing Wilson to EJ would bring stats into the equation. Wilson's game plans were conservative by design, and their defense was good enough to hold teams under 14 points. EJ's game had many more question marks than Wilson's, who only had one - was he tall enough for the league.

[dave mcbride]

You're ignoring the fact that Seattle method was nothing like people are suggesting with the Bills. Seattle brought in a couple free agents and spent 2 3rd round picks on QBs. People are wanting the Bills to spend another high pick on a QB the year after spending a 1st on one. That is completely different. And Seattle stuck with Wilson even with very similar stats that EJ has now (I know, I know. Everyone knew Wilson was going to be great after he threw 3 ints against the Lions).

 

? - Russell Wilson had crazy good stats last year: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm . He had a 64.1 percent completion rate and averaged 7.9 ypa. He also had 500 yards rushing and a 5.2 ypa. Manuel, averaged over 16 games, is on pace for less than 300 yards with a 3.5 ypc. I worry that you're reverting to anecdotal analysis by focusing on individual games. The test is in a season's body of work, not the ups and downs of a three-week interval.

 

I don't think that anyone who's comparing Wilson to EJ would bring stats into the equation. Wilson's game plans were conservative by design, and their defense was good enough to hold teams under 14 points. EJ's game had many more question marks than Wilson's, who only had one - was he tall enough for the league.

Hell, I'm bringing Wilson's stats into the equation. Why not?

Edited December 12, 2013 by dave mcbride

[C.Biscuit97]

? - Russell Wilson had crazy good stats last year: http://www.pro-footb.../W/WilsRu00.htm . He had a 64.1 percent completion rate and averaged 7.9 ypa. He also had 500 yards rushing and a 5.2 ypa. Manuel, averaged over 16 games, is on pace for less than 300 yards with a 3.5 ypc. I worry that you're reverting to anecdotal analysis by focusing on individual games. The test is in a season's body of work, not the ups and downs of a three-week interval.

 

Up until last week, their stats were identical and Wilson didn't miss any time during his rookie year. That would hurt any Qb much less a rookie. Everyone points to the NE game as Wilson's breakout game. They were like the 25th best defense last year. EJ led a comeback victory against the 3rd best defense in the NFL.

 

I wll say these last 3 games are very important for Manuel to see consistency. But Wilson was brought along very slowly but he also had the benefit of a top 5 defense and running game.

[dave mcbride]

Up until last week, their stats were identical and Wilson didn't miss any time during his rookie year. That would hurt any Qb much less a rookie. Everyone points to the NE game as Wilson's breakout game. They were like the 25th best defense last year. EJ led a comeback victory against the 3rd best defense in the NFL.

 

I wll say these last 3 games are very important for Manuel to see consistency. But Wilson was brought along very slowly but he also had the benefit of a top 5 defense and running game.

 

Through nine games, Russell Wilson had a rating of 87.2. He had a 62.0 percent completion rate, a TD-INT ratio of 13-8, and a YPA of 7.0.

 

Manuel, through nine games, has a rating of 75.4 a ypa of 6.3, a 9-8 TD-INT ratio, and a 57.8 percent completion rate.

 

Wilson was clearly better. Plus he was a significantly better runner last year than Manuel is this year.

[GG]

Through nine games, Russell Wilson had a rating of 87.2. He had a 62.0 percent completion rate, a TD-INT ratio of 13-8, and a YPA of 7.0.

 

Manuel, through nine games, has a rating of 75.4 a ypa of 6.3, a 9-8 TD-INT ratio, and a 57.8 percent completion rate.

 

Wilson was clearly better. Plus he was a significantly better runner last year than Manuel is this year.

 

More importantly was the steady improvement in Wilson's game as the year wore on - 8 of his 10 INTs came in weeks 1-8. I think the rightful concern about EJ is that there's no discernible pattern of improvement, but a continuation of ups & downs.

[Leelee Phoenix]

Please stop the comparisons to Wilson.

 

Russell was clearly a better QB by the middle of last season.

 

Stats rarely tell the story with QBs. One can look at EJ's college stats and think he's a very accurate, efficient passer. Some of the high post idiots here did.

 

And let's stop the hyperbole with the Carolina game. EJ basically had one drive in that game, where he threw only easy short passes against a secondary that was practice squad safeties. A drive that he wouldn't have had a chance with if Ron Rivera understood that kicking a FG for 23-17 on a 4th and 1 was a mind-numbingly atrociously terribad decision.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Leelee Phoenix

[Hazed and Amuzed]

Please stop the comparisons to Wilson.

 

Russell was clearly a better QB by the middle of last season.

 

Stats rarely tell the story with QBs. One can look at EJ's college stats and think he's a very accurate, efficient passer. Some of the high post idiots here did.

 

And let's stop the hyperbole with the Carolina game. EJ basically had one drive in that game, where he threw only easy short passes against a secondary that was practice squad safeties. A drive that he wouldn't have had a chance with if Ron Rivera understood that kicking a FG for 23-17 on a 4th and 1 was a mind-numbingly atrociously terribad decision.

 

I was pretty sure you were a dude all this time until I just saw the word "terribad". Now I have my doubts.

[John from Riverside]

You're ignoring the fact that Seattle method was nothing like people are suggesting with the Bills. Seattle brought in a couple free agents and spent 2 3rd round picks on QBs. People are wanting the Bills to spend another high pick on a QB the year after spending a 1st on one. That is completely different. And Seattle stuck with Wilson even with very similar stats that EJ has now (I know, I know. Everyone knew Wilson was going to be great after he threw 3 ints against the Lions).

 

I dont suppose anyone is gonna bring up the fact that the bills brought in TWO of the QB's that Seattle brought in while praising Seattle and bashing the Bills?

 

By the way....if the bills want to spend a 3rd round pick on a QB this year have at it.....but we need offensive weapons first

 

Please stop the comparisons to Wilson.

 

Russell was clearly a better QB by the middle of last season.

 

Stats rarely tell the story with QBs. One can look at EJ's college stats and think he's a very accurate, efficient passer. Some of the high post idiots here did.

 

And let's stop the hyperbole with the Carolina game. EJ basically had one drive in that game, where he threw only easy short passes against a secondary that was practice squad safeties. A drive that he wouldn't have had a chance with if Ron Rivera understood that kicking a FG for 23-17 on a 4th and 1 was a mind-numbingly atrociously terribad decision.

 

Your not going to endear yourself to anyone around here calling others "idiots"

 

Just because your a pup on the board dont be hatin

 

Just keep drafting QB.... 7th round or 2nd round. It does not matter. Every year you draft one. If EJ becomes great, you at least have a good back up. Kevin Kolb would have won at least 1 or 2 of those 4 games EJ was out. Just like a stable of running backs... until you find a stud QB. Keep filling up the stable.

 

Jeff Tuel and Lewis are not the answer. a 7th or 5th round QB next year might not be either... but you keep trying.

 

The problem with drafting a 7th round QB is they very rarely get the chance to prove that they can be the answer.......in most cases the best they ever see is that they might make good backup material.

 

That is why teams generally dont draft 1st rounder QBs back to back......when they make an investment that high they are gonna wanna see what they have

[Donald Duck]

Anyone think AJ McCaron will fall out of the 1st round?

 

I would love to see him in a Bills jersey but dont think he would fall far enough to justify the Bills drafting him.

 

CBF

 

Myself personally, in my opinion AJ Mccarron is going to make a very good signal caller in the NFL,

 

but I also believe EJ is Buffalo's new franchise signal caller,

 

So lets concentrate on building around our guys...

 

 

We have a great leader both on and off the Football field in EJ Manuel, a genuinely good person.

 

Lets stand united behind this young man and help him lift and carry the heavy weight of a franchise that has been in turmoil for over a decade.

 

 

I Billieve...

Edited December 12, 2013 by dog14787

[Gordio]

Agree 100% and it's very annoying. It's how people argue politics, religion, etc. It's why discussions go no where.

 

I don't know if EJ is the long term answer. I know he's had good moments and he had bad moments. I personally believe it's foolish to draft another QB in next year's draft in the first 2 rounds. You need to add more talent to this team and those likely will be high picks. There is zero guarantee this is a stronger class. Zero. However if a guy like Aaron Murray was there in the 3rd, I'm fine with drafting him. But I think EJ deserves at least one more year and then you evaluate after next season.

 

I don't know how strong of a class it will be but I am pretty confident that 4 or 5 guys that are coming out this year will grade higher & would of been drafted sooner if they were in the same draft as Manuel. An Athlon preview for College Football this year a scout said about Aaron Murray , "I went to the combine, studied all the QBS in the draft & none of the QB's in this past draft have anything on Aaron Murray." Bridgewater, Manzel, Price & Boyd I believe also would of been taken higher the Manuel if they were in the draft.

[dave mcbride]

I don't think that anyone who's comparing Wilson to EJ would bring stats into the equation. Wilson's game plans were conservative by design, and their defense was good enough to hold teams under 14 points. EJ's game had many more question marks than Wilson's, who only had one - was he tall enough for the league.

 

http://mlb.si.com/2013/12/12/russell-wilson-rangers-rule-5-draft-seahawks/