Gabe Northern Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 He is a rookie and will have his ups and downs, ups vs. Carolina and NY Jets, downs vs. Pittsburgh and Tampa. Typical over reacting fan responses. The reason for the loss yesterday falls mostly on the offensive line that could not block and the famed pass rush that registered one sack. Again hes a rookie. He is playing like a crappy QB who happens to be a rookie. He has hit on some nice down field throws. He looks good running, but they don't take advantage of his ability. Everything else -- field vision, accuracy, quick decisions -- looks bad and generally improves modestly.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 In this season of thankfulness, I am thankful for these posts as they help me to streamline my TSW experience with the Manage Ignore Prefs function.
Campy Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 I find all these by fans who know more than the coaching staff and front office really interesting. It's amazing how many of you guys just know he has no chance of being good while a coaching staff with a lifetime of experience just can't see the game the way you geniuses see it. There's a reason they give these guys time. It's because it's tough to weed out the bad ones after just a few starts because the good ones also generally look like crap early in their careers. So while you might end up being right that he'll end up not being good you'd also throw away a lot of talented QBs who started out slowly. Check and mate.
Maury Ballstein Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 I find all these by fans who know more than the coaching staff and front office really interesting. It's amazing how many of you guys just know he has no chance of being good while a coaching staff with a lifetime of experience just can't see the game the way you geniuses see it. There's a reason they give these guys time. It's because it's tough to weed out the bad ones after just a few starts because the good ones also generally look like crap early in their careers. So while you might end up being right that he'll end up not being good you'd also throw away a lot of talented QBs who started out slowly. Bump
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 You have it wrong. SJ13 dooms the Bills until he's gone. Throw it to me on short routes. I swear I won't bobble it into the hands of the defender!!! NO DEEP PASSES when SJ13 is out there.
Gordio Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 We don't really know how hard it is to get rid of "these guys" now-a-days. Since the new rookie wage scale was put in we haven't seen anybody as bad as EJ right away. Nor have we seen a guy who was MOSTLY regarded as a mid-round pick selected so early. There aren't many eyes on Buffalo or EJ, so moving on could be much easier than we think. Plus, it's a QB league. Somewhere somebody is going to eventually draft a QB in the first round two years in a row. It's bound to happen eventually. With all that said, he'll be the starter next year. Buffalo doesn't have the brains or balls. Totally agree with this. The rules have changed now with the new rookie salary cap. Manuel is basically getting paid like a decent backup veteran QB would be paid. By trading down they already in a way recouped that pick with getting Woods & Alonzo so the sting is not that bad. With that being said I agree, the Bills don't have the moxy or the guts to draft another QB in the 1st round. We will be stuck with Manuel for at least the next 3 years. Hopefully turn it around.
alias Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 He is a rookie and will have his ups and downs, ups vs. Carolina and NY Jets, downs vs. Pittsburgh and Tampa. Typical over reacting fan responses. The reason for the loss yesterday falls mostly on the offensive line that could not block and the famed pass rush that registered one sack. Again hes a rookie. Conventional wisdom about rookie QB's, when applied to EJ Manuel, is invalidated by the fact that EJ can't throw. He might be able to launch it 50 yards in the air (and maybe even keep it inbounds!) but until he can regularly hit the 8-yard slant on 3rd and 7, it doesn't matter. Conventional wisdom assumes the kid QB can throw. EJ can't.
thebandit27 Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Conventional wisdom about rookie QB's, when applied to EJ Manuel, is invalidated by the fact that EJ can't throw. He might be able to launch it 50 yards in the air (and maybe even keep it inbounds!) but until he can regularly hit the 8-yard slant on 3rd and 7, it doesn't matter. Conventional wisdom assumes the kid QB can throw. EJ can't. I'm sorry, but you need to go back and re-watch the Jets game (at home) if you believe this...yes, he can hit short and intermediate throws. I don't know why he isn't doing it more consistently (something tells me it's a mixture of footwork, timing, and confidence); saying he cannot do so is patently incorrect.
TheBrownBear Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 My eyes and gut tell me that the OP will eventually be proven correct, but it is hard to justify completely giving up on EJ at this point. He's been terrible about 50% of the time, but he's also had stretches where he looks like a legit above-average QB. Sort of like Locker in his first couple of years. I'd give him another year and then prepare to draft one of the QBs in 2015 - a draft that should contain names like Winston, Mariota, Hundley, etc.
gobillsinytown Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 It generally takes a quarterback 3 years of play to fully understand an offense. Even the best who have ever played had rough spots in their rookie years. I'm not pro or anti E.J. because it's too early to determine whether he can consistently play at the NFL level. Ultimately, the W-L record will decide the issue.
BillsBytheBay Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 And this is based on their long, time-tested track record in the NFL? well, all our players did take a big step back after Chan left.
alias Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Conventional wisdom about rookie QB's, when applied to EJ Manuel, is invalidated by the fact that EJ can't throw. He might be able to launch it 50 yards in the air (and maybe even keep it inbounds!) but until he can regularly hit the 8-yard slant on 3rd and 7, it doesn't matter. I'm sorry, but you need to go back and re-watch the Jets game (at home) if you believe this...yes, he can hit short and intermediate throws. I don't know why he isn't doing it more consistently (something tells me it's a mixture of footwork, timing, and confidence); saying he cannot do so is patently incorrect. Please note (see above) the word "regularly" in the phrase "regularly hit the 8-yard slant." That you found it necessary to direct our attention back to the Jets game (skipping over 8 quarters of football since then) proves that maybe I'm not "patently incorrect." Your "evidence" proves me right, but I'm glad you attempted to refute me, because "patently incorrect" is a cool phrase that I intend to use every time I sense the opportunity.
DefenseWinzChampionshipz Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 There are many things wrong with this team. The tricky part this season compared to all the other losing seasons is, I don't know how the front office should fix it. The QB can't throw the deep pass. That's a given. The O-Line sucks. But who? Colin Brown was the obvious one. But after yesterday's game, I think the whole O-Line needs an upgrade (except for Glenn). If we get a TE, who will get him the ball, will he have time to throw and same goes with a great WR (although you don't have to be very accurate for great WRs to catch the ball). It's a non fixable organization if you ask me. I do believe it starts with the QB, so until we have our QB playing in an NFL level, we shouldn't focus on anything else. I say we draft 7 QBs this year til we find the one. Then the year after that draft 7 Tight Ends. That way we can't miss right? And will have have secured a long term starter every year? With our luck, we'll draft 7 QBs, keep two and the 5 we send packing will become great players. That's the good old Bills for ya.
thebandit27 Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 well, all our players did take a big step back after Chan left. I can't agree with that. The only guy I've seen take a step back is CJ...oh, and Chandler. Please note (see above) the word "regularly" in the phrase "regularly hit the 8-yard slant." That you found it necessary to direct our attention back to the Jets game (skipping over 8 quarters of football since then) proves that maybe I'm not "patently incorrect." Your "evidence" proves me right, but I'm glad you attempted to refute me, because "patently incorrect" is a cool phrase that I intend to use every time I sense the opportunity. Talk about cherry-picking: Conventional wisdom about rookie QB's, when applied to EJ Manuel, is invalidated by the fact that EJ can't throw. He might be able to launch it 50 yards in the air (and maybe even keep it inbounds!) but until he can regularly hit the 8-yard slant on 3rd and 7, it doesn't matter. Conventional wisdom assumes the kid QB can throw. EJ can't. You flat-out claimed that EJ cannot throw. No bones about it. If your statement was limited to whether or not he can regularly hit a slant, then fine, say that, don't say "EJ can't throw", which is a patently incorrect statement. And yes, he's hit 8-yard slants with a measure of consistency. What he hasn't done is consistently hit the crossing routes against heavy blitzes or connect on long sideline patterns.
mjt328 Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Drafting another QB in 2014 does not mean we are giving up on EJ. It just means we are bringing in competition, at a position where we are getting poor/subpar results. What is so wrong with that? Nobody blinked when we drafted Robert Woods and Marques Goodwin last year. Nobody was crying for TJ Graham to get more "development time" after a poor rookie season. Why should a QB get special treatment? Thanks to rule changes over the last decade, more young QBs are having immediate success than anytime in the history of the NFL. And thanks to the rookie wage scale, drafting a 1st Round quarterback is no longer a huge monetary investment. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for teams to strap themselves to a sinking ship for 2, 3 or 4 seasons anymore.
thebandit27 Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Drafting another QB in 2014 does not mean we are giving up on EJ. It just means we are bringing in competition, at a position where we are getting poor/subpar results. What is so wrong with that? Nobody blinked when we drafted Robert Woods and Marques Goodwin last year. Nobody was crying for TJ Graham to get more "development time" after a poor rookie season. Why should a QB get special treatment? Thanks to rule changes over the last decade, more young QBs are having immediate success than anytime in the history of the NFL. And thanks to the rookie wage scale, drafting a 1st Round quarterback is no longer a huge monetary investment. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for teams to strap themselves to a sinking ship for 2, 3 or 4 seasons anymore. I have zero, absolutely zero, issue with this approach.
yungmack Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 I'm okay with keeping EJ for another season...because Marcus Mariota is staying at Oregon for another year. So I'm counting on EJ to do poorly and for the Bills to really stink it up in '14. BTW, for all of you who are so into Cutler, my Bears fan friends will be dancing in the streets if the Bills take him on.
Security Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 I think EJs ceiling is Steve McNair, but McNair seemed to be a lot tougher than EJ. Both pretty inaccurate, big QBs, supposedly mobile, but run awkward, big arms, but accuracy issues and some touch issues on short passes. I hope EJ can be that good. McNair was 1 yard from winning the Super Bowl, although, he did have some real good defenses.
Leelee Phoenix Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Drafting another QB in 2014 does not mean we are giving up on EJ. It just means we are bringing in competition, at a position where we are getting poor/subpar results. What is so wrong with that? Nothing, but that's new thinking which people can't accept in the NFL. Manuel is a ~$2M cap hit for the next 3 seasons. That's cheap even by backup standards. There is no reason to avoid having a QB competition, even if Manuel was good. If you can draft a QB that you feel great about, you do it. Period. They're that valuable today. Of course, there's a 1% chance this Bills staff does so, so this is pedantic. But, one can hope. I always do. I'm a Billiever.
thebandit27 Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Nothing, but that's new thinking which people can't accept in the NFL. Manuel is a ~$2M cap hit for the next 3 seasons. That's cheap even by backup standards. There is no reason to avoid having a QB competition, even if Manuel was good. If you can draft a QB that you feel great about, you do it. Period. They're that valuable today. Of course, there's a 1% chance this Bills staff does so, so this is pedantic. But, one can hope. I always do. I'm a Billiever. And you're basing this on Whaley's long track record as a GM?
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