Forget the Bills for a second... Is the NFL losing it's appeal to

[dancing_joker]

I swear you follow me around just to be an ass but no what he was saying was that even though the stats and his gut say that should have been a win by the niners he couldn't and wouldn't bet the game. Whether that is a Seahawks win or a niners win by less than 3. He routinely will pick a game where the line doesn't make sense and that is his "the fix is in" game.

 

Many times there are games that should be easy covers, where the team will pull out a win and not cover. The correct storylines get pushed and a lot of money is made by Vegas. It's a win/win. Think the pats* game today. How much money do you think Vegas made on that today?

 

I haven't fully jumped to the dark side of believing it is entirely fixed but I am certainly moving closer and closer to that idea (realization?).

 

I've been thinking like this since the Bills / Carolina game. When Carolina scored their last FG, they were covering. At that moment I knew we would be the beneficiary of a "questionable" call and we would get every chance to win that game. Low and behold, big pass interference penalty, and later Stevie Johnson is wide open in the end zone. Hmmmm....

[GA BILLS FAN]

Officiating is inconsistent and too big a part of the game and the players are becoming whiners (like NBA players) --- on every incomplete pass WR's are looking for interference -- on every hit they are looking for unnecessary roughness --- it's getting ridiculous --- in addition, the rules are favoring the offense too much -- at some point, defenders will only be able to 2-hand touch QB's -- the call on Byrd was a joke --- I think NFL has to be careful, between inconsistent officiating, rule changes that help the offense they are heading down a path that is materially affecting the product on the field --- not to mention the incredible amount of commercial timeouts that slows down play and makes the games harder and harder to watch ---

Edited December 9, 2013 by TXBILLSFAN

[section122]

Don't compliment yourself. I can't resist commenting on crazy posts. What part of the the game showed you or your friend that "the fix" was in for the SF--Sea game? You know, where the refs made sure the 9ers would win, but not cover a 2.5 point spread. How did they do that?

 

Anyway, Since NE didn't cover, the win didn't change the bookies' take vs if NE lost. They still took all that pats money.

 

Your reading comprehension is terrible....

 

Here are direct quotes from my "crazy comment" that answer your own questions.

 

"Whether that is a Seahawks win or a niners win by less than 3."

 

As for your patriots comment...

 

"Many times there are games that should be easy covers, where the team will pull out a win and not cover. The correct storylines get pushed and a lot of money is made by Vegas. It's a win/win. Think the pats* game today. How much money do you think Vegas made on that today?"

 

Also please don't gloss over my caveat at the end of the post

 

"I haven't fully jumped to the dark side of believing it is entirely fixed but I am certainly moving closer and closer to that idea (realization?)."

 

 

 

All of this was in my post that you directly quoted yet you are too quick to be a jerk to actually read.

Edited December 9, 2013 by section122

[Gordio]

NFL is slowly fading in my heart. Mainly cause the Bills suck...we have a crappy owner...you can't hit a QB anymore...its getting boring!

 

I'm starting to watch a lot of college football...I love the rivals...the bowl games...ect.

 

Id probably feel different if the Bills were winning or putting effort into...but...yea its fading on me.

 

This sums up my feelings exactly. It is kind of like me with college basketball. I can't remember when I watched an NBA game from start to finish but I will watch as much college basketball as I can. I don't want to say the NFL it is a conspiracy to keep the same teams at the top but sure feels that way. I mean 90% of the teams in the league don't get that PI call that NE got at the end of the game yesterday. How many times have we seen NE on the right end of a call like that this decade? I don't really enjoy watching the NFL anymore & it is a number of things. The bogus penalties, can't touch the QB, the lack of a cool stadium environment because the corporate suits have taken over 90% of the stadiums, the same teams in contention every year. The list goes on & on. & yes the Bills suck & that is a big part of it also.

 

Why would the refs who have their own union and aren't particularly happy with the NFL, then turn around and conspire with the same entity that tried to screw them in their contract negotiations???

Perhaps the Bills suck. Other teams have better players and therefore get the calls. And it is really hard to ref a game with the speed and athleticism on the field. These players do superhuman things every week. The ref while running sideways saw part of Antonio Brown's foot step out of bounds. Try doing that at full speed.

Where were the conspiracy guys when Darryl Talley knocked over the receiver in OT against the Oilers? No call there to give the Bills another shot at the SuperBowl.

 

Please grow up.

 

The Bills have sucked for the vast majority of their existence and that is not because of the NFL or the referees. It is because of Ralph Wilson. He is a horrible owner who's only positive trait is loyalty to the city. That loyalty may only exist because we are gullible enough to keep buying tickets while he hires the Russ Brandon's of the world.

 

You don't think the refs can be betting these games? If you believe that you have a ton more faith in human nature then I do.

[section122]

Pat Kirwan advocates a system like that. It makes sense to me and would eliminate these BS PI calls.

I really like the college system. Every single play gets reviewed. It takes very little time and we have the benefit of it at home. With the length of time between plays (usually at least 20-30 seconds) there is no reason a few views upstairs (or in NY) couldn't be done. They would be done quicker and remove the stupid "oh we blew that call? Too bad you used both your challenges earlier in the game" rule.

 

So how is that evidence that attendance is down from last year?

NFL Annual Paid Attendance Since 1998* Year Games Total Average 2011 256 16,562,706 64,698 2010 255 16,569,513 64,978 2009 256 16,651,126 65,043 2008 256 17,055,982 66,625 2007 256 17,345,205 67,755 2006 256 17,340,879 67,738 2005 256 17,012,453 66,455 2004 256 17,000,811

66,409 2003 255 16,913,584 66,328 2002 256 16,833,310 65,755 2001 256 16,166,258 65,187 2000 248 16,387,289 66,078 1999 248 16,206,640 65,349 1998 240 15,364,873 64,020

If you google NFL average attendance, many of the links are about the decreasing numbers. Here is one example of that.

 

 

well i apologize something happened to the formatting of the table I had copied and pasted. Google and the link I provided should suffice though.

Edited December 9, 2013 by section122

[Gordio]

Don't compliment yourself. I can't resist commenting on crazy posts. What part of the the game showed you or your friend that "the fix" was in for the SF--Sea game? You know, where the refs made sure the 9ers would win, but not cover a 2.5 point spread. How did they do that?

 

Anyway, Since NE didn't cover, the win didn't change the bookies' take vs if NE lost. They still took all that pats money.

 

 

 

As others have pointed out, this is all about the Bills.

 

I think what he is saying is NE won the game & did not cover, a win/win for the NFL . They get their favorite franchise the win & the sports books make out because probably over 70% put money on NE to cover the 10 point line.

[BuffaloWings]

Haven't read through the entire thread yet, so I apologize if this has already been discussed...

 

Is there a reason why players can't have to sign a contract that says you're making a million + or even 100k+, there is injuries (grousome at times) involved. Signing here, you're singing you're right to sue the NFL by playing. Why is this a problem? QBs/WRs etc would have to sign this, then there's no excuse to protect these postions. Other than sheer "fixing" the results

 

This is along the lines of the guys who have sued and will eventually sue the NFL for not informing them of the risks involved. If they had been playing football their entire lives, they'd know it's a physical game with significant risk of injury (unless your name is Tom Brady), so there's no reason to file a lawsuit.

 

That said, if you think about those players who have had head problems and are showing signs of brain damage or CTE later in life (Mike Webster, Junior Seau, Tony Dorsett, Dave Duerson), then maybe it's not such a horrible thing to try and limit the unnecessary actions that lead to things like this. Of course, if players these days were to actually tackle correctly...i.e., not lead with their helmet...then we may not see these injuries as often.

 

As to the OP's point, the older I get, the more numb I am to possible conspiracies or favoritism. I've been watching this game since the early 80s and I've always loved to see the underdog win. I like to see teams get chances that haven't been there in a while. When you go 12+ years of seeing the same teams in the playoffs over & over, it gets stale...and it also reeks of something fishy going on, especially when you see a bogus PI call that helps the Patriots win...again.

[GA BILLS FAN]

At first I thought it a bit hypocritical that the NFL embraced fantasy football so much, but it brings in so many casual fans and keeps level of interest in games that mean nothing, they put their morale dilemma to the side --- in essence, they've embraced gambling --- and for those that think it's not gambling, the stakes in some leagues are significant --- I don't think it's hypocritical anymore, because I believe the NFL is overtly embracing gambling with fantasy and "Vegas" type wagers to keep interest at a high level --- one of the biggest changes in the game since the 70's ---

Edited December 9, 2013 by TXBILLSFAN

[ThurmasThoman]

The list goes on & on. & yes the Bills suck & that is a big part of it also.

 

Of course the Bills being terrible contributes to my overall lack of excitement for the NFL... but there's more to it.

 

I watched a replay of the Oilers Bills game (greatest comeback ever) this summer--when optimism for the Bills season was still in my heart. It's downright alarming to watch a game from 20 years ago, it's like 2 different sports.

 

That game could not happen in today's NFL. It just couldn't. There were so many "blown" calls, so many things that would have been reviewed. But yet, that game is one of the greatest moments in NFL history, not just as a Bills fan--it's part of NFL lore.

 

To me, that's the difference between then and now. The games were played back then, and the results and action on the field shaped the stories. Now, the games are... marketed?... forced? I dont know the exact word I'm searching for, but it's as if drama is manufactured and forced down our throats now, to prove how amazing the game is. But, the NFL doesn't need to prove how amazing the NFL is, it just needs to be the NFL.

 

That Ravens/Vikings game yesterday is a prime example to me. Sure, some amazing plays were made in the last 2 minutes, but would that have happened if kickoff rules were the way they were before? If PI calls were the same? If review didn't exist?

 

That ending was TOO amazing to be amazing... just like the Patriots game, or every other game that seems like the outcome of the game is determined in the last 3 minutes only, and the preceding 57 minutes are worthless. That's how the NBA is now, and I fear it's how the NFL is headed.

 

"keep the game close until 2 minutes, then may the best team win"

[Campy]

Nonsense.

 

Every time someone makes a play now, we hold our breath to see if it's overturned. No one knows what a catch is anymore. Calls are arbitrary. Special teams are nearly irrelevant with new kickoff rules. The magic is being sucked away by rules, and overofficiating.

 

Change isn't always is what it is. It's bad in this case.

 

I thought you were going to go in a different direction when I started reading that.

 

One of the biggest turnoffs for me is the chest-thumping, look-at-me, selfish antics. A WR caught a pass for 11 yards and a first down. Congratualtions, you did your job, let the ref do his by indicating first down while you get back to the huddle - act like you've done it before and you expect to do it again.

 

That, and the comical rules - I evidintly don't even know what actually constitutes a legal catch or roughing the passer is anymore - has made the product almost unwatchable.

 

I don't follow the NFL, I follow the Bills. Other teams' games are background noise, and it's been that way for several years.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Campy

[Mr. WEO]

Pat Kirwan advocates a system like that. It makes sense to me and would eliminate these BS PI calls.

 

PI calls (and other penalties) are not reviewable.

 

Your reading comprehension is terrible....

 

Here are direct quotes from my "crazy comment" that answer your own questions.

 

"Whether that is a Seahawks win or a niners win by less than 3."

 

As for your patriots comment...

 

"Many times there are games that should be easy covers, where the team will pull out a win and not cover. The correct storylines get pushed and a lot of money is made by Vegas. It's a win/win. Think the pats* game today. How much money do you think Vegas made on that today?"

 

Also please don't gloss over my caveat at the end of the post

 

"I haven't fully jumped to the dark side of believing it is entirely fixed but I am certainly moving closer and closer to that idea (realization?)."

 

 

 

All of this was in my post that you directly quoted yet you are too quick to be a jerk to actually read.

 

No, I enjoyed it all: the "Story lines", the aiding of the bokies "in Vegas". Yup, nothing crazy there....yet I'm a "jerk" for pointing the crazy in your post (nice try with the "caveat" comment--you have "fully jumped")?

Edited December 9, 2013 by Mr. WEO

[T master]

Agreed some of the rules such as the having control through the process of going to the ground is the most ignorant rule they have implemented in the history of the game !!

 

If you have possession when you hit the ground END OF DISCUSSION !! weather you lose it after you role or not your down & other rules interfere with the what we came to love as the NFL !!

 

Not to mention free agency has done to ruin the game i believe that was the beginning of the end for me but all the other things have just helped .

 

I am so discouraged with the leadership of our team & the stupid decisions that they make then try to pass it off to us as good sound football moves ???

[nucci]

Officiating is inconsistent and too big a part of the game and the players are becoming whiners (like NBA players) --- on every incomplete pass WR's are looking for interference -- on every hit they are looking for unnecessary roughness --- it's getting ridiculous --- in addition, the rules are favoring the offense too much -- at some point, defenders will only be able to 2-hand touch QB's -- the call on Byrd was a joke --- I think NFL has to be careful, between inconsistent officiating, rule changes that help the offense they are heading down a path that is materially affecting the product on the field --- not to mention the incredible amount of commercial timeouts that slows down play and makes the games harder and harder to watch ---

Well said. I agree. ( not that I matter!)

[oman128]

I enjoy watching the NFl less and less and College football more and more. Maybe its the passion, the marching bands, the history, the Michigan Fight song, the mascots. Pro football has almost no appeal for me anymore as a bills fan. Im lucky if I watch 1 game a year, the product in Buffalo is so bad !

[NFL95MelGrayDomination]

I hate the NFL because quality intelligence & coaching exists outside of Buffalo. Watch New England's onside kickoff yesterday. Flawless design & execution.

[Cynical]

bunch of people unable to adapt to change in this thread

 

really no different than old people sitting around grousing about the younger generation

 

"Change" (like "youth") does not always equate to "better".

 

Example: The Bills have not reached the playoffs since 1999 nor have they had a winning season since 2004.

 

Coincidentally, both 1999 team and the 2004 had were loaded with veterans (a/k/a "old" players).

 

Since 1999, the Bills have had the following HCs: Wade Phillips, Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, Dick Jauron, Chan Gailey, and now Doug Marrone

 

Since 1999, the Bills have had the following GMs: Butler, Donahue, Levy (with heavy input from Jauron), "The Collective" (with Brandon given the 'title'), Nix and now Whaley.

 

Since 1999, the Bills defensively have run the 4-3, 3-4, Tampa 2, and the hybrid

 

Since 1999, the Bills offensively have run Greggo's attempt at the West Coast, Mularkey's gimmick offense, the Bills version of St Louis "Fastest Show on Turf", Jauron's attempt to revive the No Huddle, Chan's Pistol/Spread, and now Marrone's Hurry Up No Huddle.

 

Since 1999, the other constant besides losing has been "change".

 

During Jauron's tenure, all I kept hearing was how "young" the Bills were, and how much better they were.

 

Now under Marrone, you want to guess what the central excuse theme is for this years team failure? "Rookies, youth"

But "they will learn from their mistakes", "this team just feels different"

 

Yes, I am an "old" person. Age has given me what youth cannot: experience and wisdom.

 

The 2013 Bills feature a rookie HC, a rookie OC, a rookie QB and 2 rookie WRs. Many fans expect these people to be the foundation the franchise builds upon.

 

Here is where experience and wisdom kicks in: not gonna happen. Experience tells me 2-3 will "make it" (to some degree), and the other 2 will fail.

 

As Bills fans, we better hope EJ is not one of the failures. Otherwise, in about 2 more years, the Bills will once again "change" and we fans will have to endure another wave of "youth" infusion.

[Tu-Toned]

Here's whats going to happen next week, the NFL is going to monitor the algorithums, will see that a lot of people talking about how the NFL is rigged. Watch them start to throw flags for the underdogs, now that the playoffs are all but determined completely, just to reel the sheeple back in. Its a sad cycle, but one that I believe is happening.

 

Is there a reason why players can't have to sign a contract that says you're making a million + or even 100k+, there is injuries (grousome at times) involved. Signing here, you're singing you're right to sue the NFL by playing. Why is this a problem? QBs/WRs etc would have to sign this, then there's no excuse to protect these postions. Other than sheer "fixing" the results

I totally agree with this assessment.

[section122]

No, I enjoyed it all: the "Story lines", the aiding of the bokies "in Vegas". Yup, nothing crazy there....yet I'm a "jerk" for pointing the crazy in your post (nice try with the "caveat" comment--you have "fully jumped")?

I'm glad you enjoyed my crazy.

 

Story lines - does the NFL want big market teams in the Super Bowl or small. Does it want traditional powers to be there or the new guy on the block. Some great stories have been told in the NFL over the last decade plus...

The Patriots winning the Super Bowl right after 9/11

Jon Gruden beating his former team.

The Steelers (and the refs) beating the lowly Seahawks.

The Giants ruining the perfect season of the patriots.

The Saints after Hurrican Katrina.

The Harbowl.

 

These are just the Super Bowls let alone the regular season/playoffs.

 

As TXBILLSFAN pointed out, the embracing of fantasy football by the league is in itself embracing gambling. Unless of course you think everyone plays for free. The books have made record money this year as pointed out in this thread.

 

I mean it all could be a coincedence or it could not be. I use to think it was just a great game with awesome storylines and now I am starting to waver on that. You aren't. Good for you.

 

Now answer me some questions. Why is every post you make an attacking one? Why do you come to a Bills board and not discuss the Bills but just go after other posters? You don't try to further your discussion, you try to make yourself out to be better than people here. If that is what you need out of this board to feel good about life by all means continue but your trolling is obnoxious.

[Tu-Toned]

I hate the NFL because quality intelligence & coaching exists outside of Buffalo. Watch New England's onside kickoff yesterday. Flawless design & execution.

Really, the ball was touched by NE before it went ten yards. I would deem that as flawless execution by the refs.

[Homey D. Clown]

Is the blush starting to come off the rose for anyone else?

 

It seemed very... I don't want to say "scripted"... but very.... out of the hands of the players this week--across the league.

 

(I truly don't think theres some vast conspiracy to get the Patriots in the Super Bowl, or to have certain teams win, or whatever).

 

But the referees have SO much discretion now--to review every scoring play, to throw pass interference flags for incidental contact in the deciding moments of a game, to penalize a hit on Glennon by Byrd, but not a hit on EJ when he slid...

 

The high degree of control that seemingly everyone has over the game, except the men actually PLAYING the damn game.

 

Nothing is spontaneous in the league anymore, to the point that when you're seeing something that should be amazing, like the end of that Ravens game, for instance, it just feels forced,

 

and then when you see something mundane, like that Browns victory over the Patriots, it is replaced by an almost "forced" drama--that wasn't pass interference, and the Patriots touched the ball before 10 yards on the onsides kick.

 

This era of high definition, 20 camera angles, and let's make everything "FAIR" is ruining the sport for me. There is no more magic, I am losing my obsession.

 

watching the piss-poor officiating is turning me off of the sport as well, and that's in spite of the horse apple we call a home team.