It's Not Too Early--Prepare Now to Vote All Incumbents Out of Offi

[Tiberius]

Hardly. If you were able to follow along in the conversation, and understand the things that you yourself asked, you would note that you asked why conservative don't win elections. You did not, at any point, ask me to go through the budget (which we don't have) with a fine tooth comb; demonstrating how and where I would reform. Furthermore, had you, and by you I mean you very specifically, asked me to do that, I would not have, because you don't reciprocate, and refuse to back your own positions with sources or data, much less show your own work. Finally, you just said that all conservative ideas involved "cutting and slashing" the budget (which we don't have), and then followed that up by stating that conservatives have no idea what they would actually cut or how. Which is it?

This is laughably untrue. All you need to look at is charitable giving rates, foundations, tax receipts, etc. to know the absurdity of this statement.

 

Go through the budget all you want, you are not going to find enough waste to fix anything or make a major impact on the budget with hitting health care, social security, the veterans administration, the military or anything else people want to keep.

[Rob's House]

 

See, this is exactly why you Conservatives don't win 60% of the votes, you can't really even say what you will cut, you are like Rick Perry in the debates, ugh ugh, I forgot what I was going to cut...

 

And that's exactly why Conservatives need the social issues, they can't win at all on economic issues. The very wealth could give a **** about average people having jobs, they just want to keep as much of a share of the national wealth as possible and so they latched onto the crazies and nut bags and racists to have a say in government.

 

Rs can't tell you what they're going to cut & Ds can't tell you where they're going to get the money they've promised to spend.

 

Interestingly, the left always comes down on the issue of fiscal responsibility as greedy & mean spirited while spending yourself into ruinous debt is the height of compassion.

[BillsFanM.D.]

Go through the budget all you want, you are not going to find enough waste to fix anything or make a major impact on the budget with hitting health care, social security, the veterans administration, the military or anything else people want to keep.

 

Having worked there for a long time, I can promise you there is ridiculous amounts of waste. Vets deserve more....too bad so much of their budget goes to typical gov't oversight and employees that spend more time trying not to work than simply doing the job (in less time). It's union insanity in that department. Just my opinion, based on years of first hand experience.

[Tiberius]

 

 

Rs can't tell you what they're going to cut & Ds can't tell you where they're going to get the money they've promised to spend.

 

Interestingly, the left always comes down on the issue of fiscal responsibility as greedy & mean spirited while spending yourself into ruinous debt is the height of compassion.

Ruinous debt? When are we going to be ruined?

[Rob's House]

Ruinous debt? When are we going to be ruined?

 

Exactly

[BillsFanM.D.]

Ruinous debt? When are we going to be ruined?

 

On the flip side, what makes you so certain we will remain solvent? It's not like this isn't already happening in the great USA. Detroit anyone?

[Tiberius]

 

 

Exactly

 

Exactly what?

[IDBillzFan]

On the flip side, what makes you so certain we will remain solvent? It's not like this isn't already happening in the great USA. Detroit anyone?

 

Detroit isn't going to go bankrupt because Barack Obama promised everyone in America he wouldn't let that happen.

 

And Barack Obama wouldn't lie, would he?

[Tiberius]

 

 

On the flip side, what makes you so certain we will remain solvent? It's not like this isn't already happening in the great USA. Detroit anyone?

 

Yes, and NYC went broke in 70's....the whole country went broke in the 30's and 1890's

 

So what? You guys act like we can run out of money. Other poorer countries do more than our government and remain fine. You guys are brain washed into believing government spending is evil, but when you can't find a reason it's evil you just say the sky is going to fall....someday

[Rob's House]

Yes, and NYC went broke in 70's....the whole country went broke in the 30's and 1890's

 

So what? You guys act like we can run out of money. Other poorer countries do more than our government and remain fine. You guys are brain washed into believing government spending is evil, but when you can't find a reason it's evil you just say the sky is going to fall....someday

 

So your theory is that our government can spend as much as it wants on whatever seems a worth while cause, and disregard the debt because it doesn't matter and we'll all be better off for it?

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

 

Go through the budget all you want, you are not going to find enough waste to fix anything or make a major impact on the budget with hitting health care, social security, the veterans administration, the military or anything else people want to keep.

Government agencies, because of the way year over year funding is appropriated, are wasteful by design. Directors rush to spend money that they don't need because next year's budget increases are based on spending 100% of all allocations for the current year. Fiscal irresponsibility is encouraged because not spending to cap gets you a lower cap in the following year, and ultimately there is no bottom line to report to.

[BillsFanM.D.]

Yes, and NYC went broke in 70's....the whole country went broke in the 30's and 1890's

 

So what? You guys act like we can run out of money. Other poorer countries do more than our government and remain fine. You guys are brain washed into believing government spending is evil, but when you can't find a reason it's evil you just say the sky is going to fall....someday

 

You act like there are exactly zero repercussions from bankruptcy. Just because you can 'emerge' from it doesn't mean it's a benign process.

[Tiberius]

 

 

So your theory is that our government can spend as much as it wants on whatever seems a worth while cause, and disregard the debt because it doesn't matter and we'll all be better off for it?

 

Not exactly, but I don't see disaster coming from our debt levels now I'm sure as he'll not going to squeeze health care or social security over it.

 

BTW, Conservatives have also shown the debt level doesn't concern them, they are attempting to continue to cut taxes which only increases the debt load. George Bush is only the latest example of this in practice and Paul Ryan wanted to slash taxes more

 

 

Government agencies, because of the way year over year funding is appropriated, are wasteful by design. Directors rush to spend money that they don't need because next year's budget increases are based on spending 100% of all allocations for the current year. Fiscal irresponsibility is encouraged because not spending to cap gets you a lower cap in the following year, and ultimately there is no bottom line to report to.

 

So your argument is, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Conservatives can't get people to understand that message? Seems pretty simple to me, why don't Conservatives propose and execute this plan of combing through the budget? Ever?

 

 

 

You act like there are exactly zero repercussions from bankruptcy. Just because you can 'emerge' from it doesn't mean it's a benign process.

 

I don't think we are going bankrupt. The 1890s and 1930's were not caused by too much government spending, more government spending is what got us out of the depression

[BillsFanM.D.]

 

 

So your argument is, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Conservatives can't get people to understand that message? Seems pretty simple to me, why don't Conservatives propose and execute this plan of combing through the budget? Ever?

 

 

I think both parties have tried, to various degrees at various times, to promote this principle. Clinton, as President, had line item veto for a period of time until the judicial branch whisked it away. I'm seeking responsibility and accountability in my reps. Right now, both parties promote red meat and re-election propaganda above principle and sound judgement. We can go circular in arguments for days....but if the government does not become more fiscally sound, I feel the inevitable is....inevitable. Greater societies than ours have fallen.

[boyst]

 

 

No, Joyboy is the Nazi, TYTT is the Confederate

 

 

 

See, this is exactly why you Conservatives don't win 60% of the votes, you can't really even say what you will cut, you are like Rick Perry in the debates, ugh ugh, I forgot what I was going to cut...

 

And that's exactly why Conservatives need the social issues, they can't win at all on economic issues. The very wealth could give a **** about average people having jobs, they just want to keep as much of a share of the national wealth as possible and so they latched onto the crazies and nut bags and racists to have a say in government.

zieg heil mother !@#$er

[Rob's House]

Not exactly, but I don't see disaster coming from our debt levels now I'm sure as he'll not going to squeeze health care or social security over it.

 

BTW, Conservatives have also shown the debt level doesn't concern them, they are attempting to continue to cut taxes which only increases the debt load. George Bush is only the latest example of this in practice and Paul Ryan wanted to slash taxes more

 

I'm not as concerned about current debt levels as much as projected debt levels should we continue to expand these programs.

I'm curious at what point you would consider debt, as a % of GDP, to be a problem. I'm also assuming you don't attribute any of our current economic stagnation to the debt.

 

To your second point, I will concede that often a large portion of the Republican party and its followers focus too much on marginal shifts in tax rates without giving due consideration to the other side of the equation.

 

 

 

I don't think we are going bankrupt. The 1890s and 1930's were not caused by too much government spending, more government spending is what got us out of the depression

I don't expect anyone with this POV to ever diverge from this belief, but make no mistake, what you've asserted here is a belief. I would say that most economists disagree with your conclusion, but since I haven't surveyed all economists on the issue I'll just say that what you've asserted is far from being a consensus view.

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

I'm not as concerned about current debt levels as much as projected debt levels should we continue to expand these programs.

I'm curious at what point you would consider debt, as a % of GDP, to be a problem. I'm also assuming you don't attribute any of our current economic stagnation to the debt.

 

To your second point, I will concede that often a large portion of the Republican party and its followers focus too much on marginal shifts in tax rates without giving due consideration to the other side of the equation.

 

 

 

 

I don't expect anyone with this POV to ever diverge from this belief, but make no mistake, what you've asserted here is a belief. I would say that most economists disagree with your conclusion, but since I haven't surveyed all economists on the issue I'll just say that what you've asserted is far from being a consensus view.

It's the minority view, with the larger consensus being that the Great Depression never ended, and that the US economy simply transitioned into a War Economy upon our entrance into WW2, with our era of global economic dominance stemming directly from the complete decimation of ever other major manufacturing base in the world.

[Koko78]

I don't think we are going bankrupt. The 1890s and 1930's were not caused by too much government spending, more government spending is what got us out of the depression

 

So what you're saying is that we need Germany to invade Poland and the Japanese to bomb Pearl Harbor to stimulate the economy?

[Rob's House]

So what you're saying is that we need Germany to invade Poland and the Japanese to bomb Pearl Harbor to stimulate the economy?

 

I don't mean to call you out, but I'm pretty sure that was the Germans.

[3rdnlng]

If only we could invade Iraq again and get this economy going! I can envision Rosie The Riveter making drone after drone, single handedly bringing our economy back to prosperity.