get EJ what he needs to succeed in 2014

[Dibs]

who are you kidding?

He said "to a certain degree".

 

IMO, getting "weapons" is very overrated.

 

All we heard every year about David Carr in Houston is he needed more weapons to be good. Then they got him a star receiver, a great no. 2, a good slot guy, and great TE, etc..... and he still wasn't good.

 

If EJ is a franchise QB, it shouldn't matter much who is weapons are (to a certain degree).

I generally agree with this.

 

I tend to think that great weapons can help a decent QB look good....and a good QB sometimes look great. But with a great QB(who has matured into greatness), he will perform well regardless of his weapons(ala Brady early this year) & will usually make decent players look good.....and good players look great(perhaps even HOF level great).

 

I'm thinking the point being that we want EJ to develop into a truly great QB rather than merely a good one as that would give the best chance of winning the SB.

[bobobonators]

Another way I also look at the Bills situation is as follows:

 

I would rather invest in the offense in the immediate future b/c I feel the fate of this Franchise for the next 5 years is clearly on EJ's shoulders and not the defense. I want to give EJ every possible chance to succeed in the NFL. I want to give EJ an embarrassment of riches and targets galore. I want EJ's confidence to be sky-high in order to secure a place among the better QB's in this league. The success of EJ offensively will ultimately come with wins for the team, regardless of what the defense does. Sure, we won't be a complete team without a good defense....but i'd rather have my QB situation working than worrying about who my MLB or DE is.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

You will note that I qualified my above post-- weapons don't matter "to a certain degree."

 

Of course, having better players is better. But my point is that this notion of needing the stud WR, or the superstar TE, or an elite LT to be a great QB is overrated.

 

By way of example, Drew Brees is a great QB with or without Jimmy Graham. He doesn't need Graham to be a great QB. in fact, he was pretty awesome with the likes of colston and meacham. Having Graham is better, but Brees doesn't need him to be a great QB.

 

You will notice the same is true of just about every elite QB in the league. and the bad QBs always use "lack of a weapon" as an excuse.

 

Edit: dibs, just saw your post. That is exactly what I mean.

Edited December 7, 2013 by JR in Pittsburgh

[bobobonators]

You will note that I qualified my above post-- weapons don't matter "to a certain degree."

 

Of course, having better players is better. But my point is that this notion of needing the stud WR, or the superstar TE, or an elite LT to be a great QB is overrated.

 

By way of example, Drew Brees is a great QB with or without Jimmy Graham. He doesn't need Graham to be a great QB. in fact, he was pretty awesome with the likes of colston and meacham. Having Graham is better, but Brees doesn't need him to be a great QB.

 

You will notice the same is true of just about every elite QB in the league. and the bad QBs always use "lack of a weapon" as an excuse.

 

Edit: dibs, just saw your post. That is exactly what I mean.

 

Well said.

 

I guess a question I have is, then what makes a QB "great"? Stafford is a good QB, but certainly not great..and look at the weapons he has. I agree with you that just giving EJ weapons won't make him a great QB...but it certainly won't hurt. It all starts with EJ and ends with EJ in determining his ultimate path in this league. One could possibly argue that having the right OC/HC combination is the single most important thing for a young QB - that is, having him develop into the right situation. Do we have that here in Buffalo? I don't know.

[boyst]

Good post.

 

While I somewhat agree on the "no glaring need" on offense aspect of your post, that doesn't mean it can't and shouldn't be upgraded. An average offense will most likely not have a glaring need, but there's still a lot of room for growth going from a C to an A.

 

The deficiency on this offense for me is clear: The NFL is a passing league and will continue to evolve into a passing league. We lack dynamic playmakers in the one area of the game that is most important in today's offensive attacks - the passing game. We have a true explosive playmaker in CJ spiller in the running game, and that's great. But we need at least 1 CJ Spiller type player in the passing game (either at WR or TE) if we're going to take the next step offensively (IMO). Maybe Goodwin can evolve into that - we'll see...but this offense is still not set up to truly succeed in the passing game and that's a deficiency in today's NFL.

Every time I see those big passes to SJ13, especially in the last few games. We all remember them, the huge plays that get us the yards we need for the first down I think of how great it'd be to have a route running TE. We have a HS TE. A TE who gets to the flat, who gets to the traditional 1970 places at TE gets the ball. It isn't a bad thing to have an old reliable mule like that in your stable but having a good race horse like an Appaloosa can pay off in todays passing league. We are always going to want a Percheron in our stable, though, and finding one is not going to be easy.

[johnwalter]

Im in favor of putting most of our assets this offseason into assembling O-Line as dominent as our D-Line. Wood and Glenn are pro-bowl caliber players, and Urbik, while not elite, is still a the top tier RG. It wouldnt take many pieces to make our OL one of the top units in the league.

 

Get EJ what he needs to succeed by buying him time in the pocket and boost in the run game.

[Section242]

Woods and Goodwin must be chop liver. We have a nice young crop coming up together. Graham is close to bein real good. We need 3 things on offense, a TE who can run and catch, a stud OG and a between the tackles kick your ass running back in the mold of brandon jacobs. EJ just needs a little more time to develop. Injuries have hampered him but every week I see improvements. The Bills wont be drafting a wide receiver.

 

Graham is closer to being out of the league than being even average.

[boyst]

Graham is closer to being out of the league than being even average.

Perhaps you overestimate how average 2nd and 3rd tier WR's are in this league. If Chris Hogan can spend 3 years in the NFL then TJ Graham can spend at least double that.

[3rdand12]

Im in favor of putting most of our assets this offseason into assembling O-Line as dominent as our D-Line. Wood and Glenn are pro-bowl caliber players, and Urbik, while not elite, is still a the top tier RG. It wouldnt take many pieces to make our OL one of the top units in the league.

 

Get EJ what he needs to succeed by buying him time in the pocket and boost in the run game.

Tis true .

 

If Hackett had a line he could depend on no matter what , ( its better for sure than some weeks ago ), he might offer Manuel some more playbook and let the offensive backfield get a little weird and funkify the playcalling and start having some fun.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

 

 

Well said.

 

I guess a question I have is, then what makes a QB "great"? Stafford is a good QB, but certainly not great..and look at the weapons he has. I agree with you that just giving EJ weapons won't make him a great QB...but it certainly won't hurt. It all starts with EJ and ends with EJ in determining his ultimate path in this league. One could possibly argue that having the right OC/HC combination is the single most important thing for a young QB - that is, having him develop into the right situation. Do we have that here in Buffalo? I don't know.

 

yeah, it's what makes evaluating QBs so hard. I think we continue to try to surround EJ with good players and hope he benefits from them. But I think there's a point where the organization has to make the determination that he's an elite QB or regardless of who we put around him, he is not going to be a great one.

 

The fact of the matter is you need a great (not good) QB if you want to win consistently. just tough sometimes to know if you have one.

[Dorkington]

Everyone ready for the official excuse for EJ Manuel next year.

 

Sophomore Slump

 

Then by year three he'll likely be mediocre and we'll all be foaming at the mouth at how stupid this organization is, and we'll do it all over again, along with a new HC and possibly a different GM.

[Maury Ballstein]

Everyone ready for the official excuse for EJ Manuel next year.

 

Sophomore Slump

 

Nostradamus ? Is that you ?

 

How bad will year two be for EJ ? Will Tuel take the reigns by week 5 ?

[Trader]

Alex Bayer TE Bowling Green 6' 4 " 262. 7 catch 124 yds against Northern Ill tonight. Poor mans Gronk. He will not require a top three pick.

[Justice]

I would love to see the Bills get an elite TE. The majority of playoff teams over the last few years all had at least one, but an elite O-Line is even more important.

 

It's time to go against the grain. Yeah sure, the league has become a pass happy league, but if you can go in another direction by putting all your eggs in the offensive line basket then you can dictate the game to your opponents in a way that they can't handle.

 

Now that the NFL has changed over to a passing league that also means GMs are putting more resources into WRs, DBs and pass rushers. So what happens when you go the other way? Those same teams will struggle defending you because they're ill-equipped to.

 

Winning consistently in the NFL has always been about the trend setters. Those that try to emulate and follow a path that already has been taken usually find themselves a day late and a dollar short.

 

 

[mdk]

Woods and Goodwin must be chop liver. We have a nice young crop coming up together. Graham is close to bein real good. We need 3 things on offense, a TE who can run and catch, a stud OG and a between the tackles kick your ass running back in the mold of brandon jacobs. EJ just needs a little more time to develop. Injuries have hampered him but every week I see improvements. The Bills wont be drafting a wide receiver.

"TJ Graham is close to bein' real good?" Maybe in the CFL. He's not tough enough, clutch enough, or consistent enough of a route runner to be a # 3 NFL WR, let alone anything more. He'll be at the crossroads of getting cut next year. Hope I'm wrong but that's what my eyes have seen over the past 2 years.

[thewildrabbit]

I would love to see the Bills get an elite TE. The majority of playoff teams over the last few years all had at least one, but an elite O-Line is even more important.

 

It's time to go against the grain. Yeah sure, the league has become a pass happy league, but if you can go in another direction by putting all your eggs in the offensive line basket then you can dictate the game to your opponents in a way that they can't handle.

 

Now that the NFL has changed over to a passing league that also means GMs are putting more resources into WRs, DBs and pass rushers. So what happens when you go the other way? Those same teams will struggle defending you because they're ill-equipped to.

 

Winning consistently in the NFL has always been about the trend setters. Those that try to emulate and follow a path that already has been taken usually find themselves a day late and a dollar short.

Man 0 Man do I agree

 

Although, Its not really going against the grain, as the 8-4 49ers and 11-1 Seahawks are both run first teams, meaning they run more then they throw (OMG, how is that even possible in today's passing league?) Both team have invested properly in their O lines, and it is paying off with winning seasons. They also have read option QB's and good receiving corps along with top defensive units.

 

The Patriots & Broncos are mainly passing teams that also rely on the run game, just not very heavily. Once that snow starts falling, and father winter gets those cold winds blowing they will need to rely more on the run game.

 

 

The Bills currently lead the NFL in rushing attempts and are 4th in rushing offense in terms of yards. Yards per attempt, 13th. They are #2 in fumbles with 10. They are #4 in yards per game. #6 in rushing TD's and yet after all that are only 4-8. Probably because they are 29th in passing yardage, 29th in receiving yardage. EJ and his receiving corps have been injured and not playing enough to get in proper sync. The bigger problem as I see it is the Bills can run the ball at times, just not at the times they really need to.

 

For me its far to early to tell how good EJ is going to be simply because of all the injuries to himself, and his WR's corps. Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Stevie Johnson have all been injured, and with Johnson starting the year with hamstring problems, to a bad back, to a groin injury.

 

Anyway, I'm hoping this off season the Bills will be looking to upgrade at least 2 of those O line positions, perhaps 3. Build EJ a line like the Seahawks / 49ers have, and then they should be able to run when they need to, and give EJ Tom Brady like time in the pocket.

Edited December 7, 2013 by FeartheLosing

[Buffalo Barbarian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkRIqTUzCwk

 

most of you have probably seen the Gruden camp episode with EJ. as someone who's rooting hard for this kid to succeed, i'm concerned that his accuracy issues are going to follow him his entire career. i understand that as he gains experience with NFL defenses he should improve getting the ball to the right spot due to his anticipation of the coverage - but my concern begins at the 17:02 mark. the coach and QB discuss his success at FSU with throwing the ball downfield and allowing his receivers to 'go get it'. EJ acknowledges that his teammates were often the better player on the other end of these, making big plays for them.

 

right now, our roster doesn't have the type of physically gifted receivers that can 'go get it'. we have a lot of speed - which can get them to an open spot before the D reacts, but EJ hasn't shown the accuracy to consistently make these 'timing' throws. like i said, i'm hoping that in time his recognition of where the D is flowing will help him - but i'm thinking that after x amount of years playing the position, his feel for this hasn't progressed with his other skills. thank goodness he's been patient enough to let the play come to him, or right now he'd be following Geno into JP's "home for emotionally battered quarterbacks". i give Marrone and Hackett credit there.. trying to give him throws he can make as first reads, and coaching him up to take care of the ball when he thinks he'll be late to his second or third option. a check down beats a pick - even if it's not gonna sustain a lot of drives.

 

i'm thinking the best thing the GM and coaches can do for him, is to add at least one deep threat that can come back on the ball and take it from a defender. Goodwin is a wonderful threat because you can't overthrow him, but we've already seen many under thrown and poorly thrown balls to him, and the other guys. there aren't many accurate NFL passers with strong arms - usually, you have one or the other.. but when your receivers can make plays, a strong armed guy like EJ has a better chance to succeed. those deep outs will be put where a play can be made on them after he gets the same confidence in his Bills receivers as he had with his Seminole buddies.

 

oh yeah, and a big Metzelaars type target wouldn't hurt either, but EJ needs that downfield playmaker more to open things up, and make Ds pay for 1-on-1 coverages on the outside receivers.

 

How about two big pass catching TEs

[Kemp]

Offensive weapons are a wonderful thing, but if your QB has accuracy issues, who cares.

 

I won't argue that having WRs who can steal jump balls isn't a great thing to have, but considering that QB is so much more important than any other position, it would be nice to have one that does not have accuracy issues.

[Kemp]

I would love to see the Bills get an elite TE. The majority of playoff teams over the last few years all had at least one, but an elite O-Line is even more important.

 

It's time to go against the grain. Yeah sure, the league has become a pass happy league, but if you can go in another direction by putting all your eggs in the offensive line basket then you can dictate the game to your opponents in a way that they can't handle.

 

Now that the NFL has changed over to a passing league that also means GMs are putting more resources into WRs, DBs and pass rushers. So what happens when you go the other way? Those same teams will struggle defending you because they're ill-equipped to.

 

Winning consistently in the NFL has always been about the trend setters. Those that try to emulate and follow a path that already has been taken usually find themselves a day late and a dollar short.

 

Could not disagree more.

 

The league is not about setting trends in order to succeed. It is about understanding the rules and exploiting them.

 

The NFL's rules have evolved to a point where it has become far easier to gain 5 yards through the air than on the ground. The teams that succeed do that the best. All you need do is look at the teams that run the ball for the most yardage and you will see that is almost an anti-barometer for success. Having a good ground game as a secondary feature is a great thing to have, but make no mistake that it is a primary.

 

If the rules change to make it better for defensing the passing game, it will be time to switch strategies. Until then it is suicide.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Kemp

[SouthernMan]

...and catch the friggin' ball AND protect it if they do happen to catch it. The number of "easy" catches that were dropped by Bills' receivers is ridiculous. Lots of drives ended because of it. Find a reliable receiver or two with great hands.