FireChan Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Okay, I have tried my best to be polite. You are showing your ignorance about the Toronto series. I am not talking about any other games. I am not talking about anything else that may or may not be wrong with the team. I am talking specifically about the games in Toronto. They suck and the fans suck. Is that clear enough for you? There are other issues with the team, but that is not what I was talking about in any of my posts. I am talking only about the games in Toronto. Anyone who cannot see that they are a colossal failure is either a fool or an idiot. Not sure which category you may fall into, but it's obviously one or the other. Taking a shot to try to build a declining fan base is a failure because of the Bills woes. Look at all the Seattle and 49ers fans coming out of the wood work in the last 2 years. If the Bills had any success, I'm sure the Rogers Centre games would be 10 times what they are in terms of Buffalo support. Success and fan-attendance are intricately linked. And building the franchise in regional areas close to Buffalo will help keep the franchise here. How does no one get that?
birdog1960 Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 if this writer has captured a majority sentiment for this within the "gta" (and i suspect he has), then this series should die quickly. i think he's nailed it. it's the latest article linked to tbd or read it here: http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/04/buffalo-bills-toronto-series-simply-a-bad-idea. And building the franchise in regional areas close to Buffalo will help keep the franchise here. How does no one get that? how do you not get that it's not happening through the toronto game?
FireChan Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) if this writer has captured a majority sentiment for this within the "gta" (and i suspect he has), then this series should die quickly. i think he's nailed it. it's the latest article linked to tbd or read it here: http://www.torontosu...mply-a-bad-idea. how do you not get that it's not happening through the toronto game? Start being relevant and it will. Just like tickets at the Ralph will sell out past week 12 if we are in contention. That's my final post on this topic, I feel like I'm saying the same thing over and over. Edited December 5, 2013 by FireChan
87168 Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 “Obviously, Toronto has been very positive for us down here,” Brandon said. “We’ve had great growth in the Southern Ontario marketplace the last five years. Back here at Ralph Wilson Stadium that has been a big positive. It has been a challenged market there. And certainly has not translated into enough wins for us there.” - Russ Brandon http://www.buffalone...antage-20131204
Buftex Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 “Obviously, Toronto has been very positive for us down here,” Brandon said. “We’ve had great growth in the Southern Ontario marketplace the last five years. Back here at Ralph Wilson Stadium that has been a big positive. It has been a challenged market there. And certainly has not translated into enough wins for us there.” - Russ Brandon http://www.buffalone...antage-20131204 It seems even Canadians think this thing is a bad idea...this is the first realistic, and reasonable article I have read on the subject, from Canadian media...didn't realize the Bills have the option to walk out on this deal.... http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/04/buffalo-bills-toronto-series-simply-a-bad-idea
bbb Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 "Southern Ontario fans account for nearly 20 percent of the Bills ticket base." Seriously you think the Toronto series has been a failure. . .how many black outs would this team have had over the last few years without the growth of the Canadian fan base. What would the Raplh's home field advantage be like with twenty percent less fans . . . We get it the home field advantage disapears in Toronto, and it makes a game somewhat less likely to be won no one disagrees with that. But the Toronto series is about maintaining a viable fan/sponsor base as Buffalos population and sponsor base declines. I keep hearing Russ say this, but I wonder if they survey these people and see if they are sth because of the series. I know the Canadians who sit near me can't stand the Toronto series. I bet 20% of Sabres ticket buyers are from Canada. And, we don't have to give our home games to them.
fridge Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 I bet 20% of Sabres ticket buyers are from Canada. And, we don't have to give our home games to them. Your point doesn't go unnoticed, but I doubt 1 in 5 season ticket holders for the Sabres are from Toronto.
bbb Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Your point doesn't go unnoticed, but I doubt 1 in 5 season ticket holders for the Sabres are from Toronto. They don't say Toronto. They say Ontario. Could be Fort Erie. I know the people who sit in front of us come all the way from Kingston. I know the guy next to my friend's Sabres tickets is from Toronto, but he does business all week in Buffalo..........However, I don't think Canadians buy 20% of season tickets, but I bet for a lot of games, they make up 20% of the place. I think they come down more on a game by game basis. (I know Russ is talking about seasons, but my point is Canadians come to Buffalo for hockey, shopping, etc in big numbers)
SRQ_BillsFan Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 "Southern Ontario fans account for nearly 20 percent of the Bills ticket base." Seriously you think the Toronto series has been a failure. . .how many black outs would this team have had over the last few years without the growth of the Canadian fan base. What would the Raplh's home field advantage be like with twenty percent less fans . . . We get it the home field advantage disapears in Toronto, and it makes a game somewhat less likely to be won no one disagrees with that. But the Toronto series is about maintaining a viable fan/sponsor base as Buffalos population and sponsor base declines. 20% Canadian, not 20% Toronto. I wonder how much of that 20% lies closer to Buffalo than it does to Toronto?
bbb Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 A lot - and here's the percent of Southern Ontarians who are Bills season ticket holders because of the Toronto series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I7kbAQU-xs
GA BILLS FAN Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Actions speak louder than words ! All of you on this board that are defending Brandon or saying he is now "enlightened" because of what he said, need to look at his actions and realize ONE THING, he is managing this team for profit, not winning. That does not mean he doesn't want to win, it means profit is #1, not winning. Look no further than the spending in 2013 versus the salary cap. I feel like I've said it a hundred times, why are the Bills not spending to cap ? Why are they pushing Fitz dead money into next year's cap when they'll need that money to bolster their roster with FA's and extensions. As for the Toronto series, let's face facts -- it was Ru$$ who stood up on Jan 1 to tell (lie) to all of us that it was a "new day" --- less than a month later he extends the Toronto series for 5 more years ---- the same series that for the past 5 years was a major embarrassment --- Ru$$ acting shocked and surprised at the series after the Atlanta game ?? --- where was he for the Chicago game up there ? . . . the Miami game ?? . . . Talk is cheap, Ru$$ needs to start acting the part of an NFL executive 100% focused on WINNING --- I want to see a change in the cap management strategy -- I want to see the Toronto series ended --- stop talking about wanting to win and have actions to match the rhetoric.
8-8 Forever? Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 its a great deal for the team the Bills play. think about it. for the Seahawks or Falcons or Redskins, they get at worst a neutral field and they get half of a gate that is double what they would get if the game was played at the Ralph, assuming the gate receipts splitting rules work the same way in Toronto. Plus the bills get $4-5M where at the Ralph on a cold snowy day in December they might get $2m (assuming no sellout). and this is why the games are going to always be in December … the Ralph might net total gate receipts of maybe$4m , in Toronto it's a 9.75m deal no matter what. … that's more than double. From the perspective of the franchise, this is one way to make up for extremely low ticket prices and therefore very low revenue (relative to other franchises who do not play in the economic equivalent of Akron) from games at the Ralph. The more I do the math, the more I am convinced the days of $40 tickets to games at the Ralph are rapidly coming to an end. The league has passed this franchise by. It is sad as I grew up in that stadium and its parking lots, but it is what it is. The NFL is big business driven by TV money, TV ratings and to a lesser extent by game day stadium revenues, and the Bills franchise in WNY cannot deliver either one.
Nanker Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) I detest Canadians' smarmyness WRT The Bills and most things American. Edited December 5, 2013 by Nanker
BillnutinHouston Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 We do not need Toronto. We need to WIN. Winning will draw in all sorts of fans. We survived for decades without regionalizing as far north as Toronto. Wait, you're not actually arguing against the Bills regionalizing and expanding their market, are you? Should the Bills just accept the fact that they have available club seats, boxes, low ticket prices and manufactured sellouts? If you take comfort in the fact that the Bills "survived for decades" without regionalizing, what's your plan for making the market attractive to the next owner who will be wooed by big money markets? This line of thinking just amazes me.
BillnutinHouston Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) It seems even Canadians think this thing is a bad idea...this is the first realistic, and reasonable article I have read on the subject, from Canadian media...didn't realize the Bills have the option to walk out if the deal... i don't think there's any indication they CAN get out of the deal. The linked article doesn't shed any light on that. From the perspective of the franchise, this is one way to make up for extremely low ticket prices and therefore very low revenue (relative to other franchises who do not play in the economic equivalent of Akron) from games at the Ralph. The more I do the math, the more I am convinced the days of $40 tickets to games at the Ralph are rapidly coming to an end. The league has passed this franchise by. It is sad as I grew up in that stadium and its parking lots, but it is what it is. The NFL is big business driven by TV money, TV ratings and to a lesser extent by game day stadium revenues, and the Bills franchise in WNY cannot deliver either one. While many here have their heads buried firmly in the sand, are oblivious to the big picture and just whine about one game being moved from their backyard, this is the most accurate summary of the reality that I've seen in awhile. Reading this thread is like watching a post-iceberg scene aboard the Titanic and seeing passengers complain about the warm champagne. The lack of vision is stunning. No wonder NYS is such a mess. Edited December 5, 2013 by BillnutinHouston
dave mcbride Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 It seems even Canadians think this thing is a bad idea...this is the first realistic, and reasonable article I have read on the subject, from Canadian media...didn't realize the Bills have the option to walk out on this deal.... http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/04/buffalo-bills-toronto-series-simply-a-bad-idea Nice piece.
xsoldier54 Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 I detest Canadians' smarmyness WRT The Bills and most things American. This. They are arrogant !@#$s for the most part and detest all things American, yet where do they go for vacation? Whose TV shows and movies do they watch? Hipocrites all.
xsoldier54 Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Just got warned for "abusive behavior" for telling someone they are full of ****. Wow! You can't say that here I guess. No offense intended and I didn't realize that people here were so sensitive. What I meant to say was of course you are right and I am wrong. How could I possibly be so stupid as to disagree with your opinion? How could I possibly not know that your opinion is worth way more than mine? I sincerely apologize for not being as all knowing as you. Sound better moderators?
birdog1960 Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 i don't think there's any indication they CAN get out of the deal. The linked article doesn't shed any light on that. While many here have their heads buried firmly in the sand, are oblivious to the big picture and just whine about one game being moved from their backyard, this is the most accurate summary of the reality that I've seen in awhile. Reading this thread is like watching a post-iceberg scene aboard the Titanic and seeing passengers complain about the warm champagne. The lack of vision is stunning. No wonder NYS is such a mess. ummm, no. the perspective is there. the proposed solution is different: field a good, consistent, winning team. the organization is and has been consistently profitable. perhaps relative to some larger franchises, not so much. but that's why it was bargain basement priced in 1960. buffalo has never been and never will be a highly desirable, glamorous city. but it has sustained a generally very bad nfl team quite nicely, thank you very much, for over 50 years. perhaps it no longer can as you suggest. the game in toronto isn't likely to change that. if that's the case, why not show some class, pull out all the stops and do your damndest to produce a winner? having a home game in a "neutral" site isn't in that description.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 This. They are arrogant !@#$s for the most part and detest all things American, yet where do they go for vacation? Whose TV shows and movies do they watch? Hipocrites all. I hope thats sarcasm..... CBF
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