BillnutinHouston Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I really don't understand all the hated toward Ralph. I understand the frustration about the results of the team over the last 14 years, but come on. If you are referring to the fact that he hasn't sold the team to someone that would ensure the Bills stay in Buffalo, I'd like to redirect your spite to the fact that this city is declining in relative population and has been doing so for generations. That's the ONLY reason why the idea of the Bills leaving is even being entertained. Relative Rank of Buffalo: 1960: 20th 1970: 28th 1980: 39th 1990: 50th 2000: 59th 2013: 73rd So let me ask you this, if you owned a business that when you started it was in the 20th largest market in the Country, but years later dropped to the 73rd largest market, what would you do? You'd pick up and move. That's what rationale business people do. Good point. The fact is, Ralph hasn't made waves to leave WNY in many, many years and even more revealing of his intention to work in good faith with Buffalo's sad-sack market is that he's never demanded a new stadium and has settled for a paltry combined $200 million or so in stadium upgrades over the last 20 years or so. That is extremely modest. If Ralph was ever going to "bluff" WNY, it would have been over the new stadium issue. Now consider the above statistics from the perspective of THE NEXT OWNER. Anyone who doesn't expect the next owner to keep the team in Buffalo without keeping or even expanding the Toronto series is extremely naive. The single biggest question facing the long term future of a Buffalo football team is how to make the economics work in Buffalo. And if the next owner demands a stadium, the numbers start looking even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Good point. The fact is, Ralph hasn't made waves to leave WNY in many, many years and even more revealing of his intention to work in good faith with Buffalo's sad-sack market is that he's never demanded a new stadium and has settled for a paltry combined $200 million or so in stadium upgrades over the last 20 years or so. That is extremely modest. If Ralph was ever going to "bluff" WNY, it would have been over the new stadium issue. Now consider the above statistics from the perspective of THE NEXT OWNER. Anyone who doesn't expect the next owner to keep the team in Buffalo without keeping or even expanding the Toronto series is extremely naive. The single biggest question facing the long term future of a Buffalo football team is how to make the economics work in Buffalo. And if the next owner demands a stadium, the numbers start looking even worse. All good thinking. And obviously a new stadium with taxpayer money is totally out of the realm of possibility in WNY. Heck, took San Francisco 20 years to get that done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 All good thinking. And obviously a new stadium with taxpayer money is totally out of the realm of possibility in WNY. Heck, took San Francisco 20 years to get that done. Yeah maybe Buffalo should look into how Pittsburgh runs their ship. Built a new stadium,not top of the line,but they don`t need all the frills,the w.n.y. thinks they need. Small town and will never see the Steelers leave. HMnnn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 All good thinking. And obviously a new stadium with taxpayer money is totally out of the realm of possibility in WNY. Heck, took San Francisco 20 years to get that done. I certainly hope it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 So tell me then why is the status quo OK with everyone. I'd like to hear your take. It's a game and it sucks that we are losers but I love football. Like many here I've been following since the 60's and just can't give it up and it doesn't really cost me a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 It's a game and it sucks that we are losers but I love football. Like many here I've been following since the 60's and just can't give it up and it doesn't really cost me a lot of money. Yeah winning would take care of everything. It `s Ralphs inability to run a team ,which got us into this mess. Losing season after losing season ,got us into this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 The average fan does not realize the economics of an NFL franchise revolve around the TV contract, seat licenses and merchandise. The Bills might get max $2m per game in their half of ticket sales, times 16 is $32Million per season. Big Deal. Each team gets well over $100Million per year on the TV deals (networks + Directv) . Boycott the games all you want. Ticket sales to the average man don't matter much compared to media revenue, seat licenses and merchandise. And with the huge out-migration from WNY since 1980 there are actually more Bills fans like me and my kids outside of Erie County than inside (who drive the TV ratings). We fantasize about the in-market fan base (hey i used to be one) , but other than nostalgia value, they don't figure into the economics as much as you might think. The NFL is not a gate revenue business, its a TV business enhanced by fans in the stands. Fewer than half of the teams sell PSLs and most of them contributed to their stadium construction and commit that money to debt repayment. Good point. The fact is, Ralph hasn't made waves to leave WNY in many, many years and even more revealing of his intention to work in good faith with Buffalo's sad-sack market is that he's never demanded a new stadium and has settled for a paltry combined $200 million or so in stadium upgrades over the last 20 years or so. That is extremely modest. If Ralph was ever going to "bluff" WNY, it would have been over the new stadium issue. Now consider the above statistics from the perspective of THE NEXT OWNER. Anyone who doesn't expect the next owner to keep the team in Buffalo without keeping or even expanding the Toronto series is extremely naive. The single biggest question facing the long term future of a Buffalo football team is how to make the economics work in Buffalo. And if the next owner demands a stadium, the numbers start looking even worse. Were the late 90's that long ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 (edited) Were the late 90's that long ago? Can you educate me with a link discussing an ultimatum that Ralph made at that time where he threatened to leave? I'm not recalling that. Edited December 3, 2013 by BillnutinHouston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 (edited) Can you educate me with a link discussing an ultimatum that Ralph made at that time where he threatened to leave? I'm not recalling that. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bills-to-remain-in-buffalo/ Kind of the aftermath... 1998 was before the real proliferation of the Internet and 100000 sources covering nfl. I do recall at the time being made very afraid of the team's future in buffalo Edited December 4, 2013 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsinytown Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 The first question I have is what has this organization done to earn and keep the support of this fanbase? The answer is not much. Every Bills fan that wastes their money on tickets and team memorabilia not to mention a huge emotional investment is just doing their part to ensure nothing changes. As long as Bills fans fear the team leaving and continue with unwavering and frankly unwarranted support , THIS TEAM WILL CONTINUE TO SUCK!!!!!!!!! The only way things will change until Ralph dies is too cut support completely. I know that seems unrealistic but if I'm in charge of financials I'm saying its OK if we're not competitive these rubes will keep buying and supporting. That's the size of it folks. Nothing will change unless the fan base changes it themselves by cutting off the team financially. That's the only thing that will work. If the team threatens to leave because of lack of support so be it. It will be better then dealing with this crap every year. This fan base is loyal and supportive to a fault. Time to do something about the putrid return on our investments. LV Same old, same old. It's all been said before. It's being said on the message boards of the lower tier NFL teams all over the country. And my response will always be the same: It's entertainment. If this form of entertainment is bothering you that much, then choose another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 The first question I have is what has this organization done to earn and keep the support of this fanbase? The answer is not much. Every Bills fan that wastes their money on tickets and team memorabilia not to mention a huge emotional investment is just doing their part to ensure nothing changes. As long as Bills fans fear the team leaving and continue with unwavering and frankly unwarranted support , THIS TEAM WILL CONTINUE TO SUCK!!!!!!!!! The only way things will change until Ralph dies is too cut support completely. I know that seems unrealistic but if I'm in charge of financials I'm saying its OK if we're not competitive these rubes will keep buying and supporting. That's the size of it folks. Nothing will change unless the fan base changes it themselves by cutting off the team financially. That's the only thing that will work. If the team threatens to leave because of lack of support so be it. It will be better then dealing with this crap every year. This fan base is loyal and supportive to a fault. Time to do something about the putrid return on our investments. LV You're about a decade too late. I'm not sure that Wilson can count how many fingers he has right now. IMO it's all about him and he knows that the team will be sold once he kicks. Think about it, he'll have a legacy as the Buffalo Bills sole owner if that happens. Either way, I agree, but it should have been done years ago. Prolly a day late and a dollar short now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 The first question I have is what has this organization done to earn and keep the support of this fanbase? The answer is not much. Every Bills fan that wastes their money on tickets and team memorabilia not to mention a huge emotional investment is just doing their part to ensure nothing changes. As long as Bills fans fear the team leaving and continue with unwavering and frankly unwarranted support , THIS TEAM WILL CONTINUE TO SUCK!!!!!!!!! The only way things will change until Ralph dies is too cut support completely. I know that seems unrealistic but if I'm in charge of financials I'm saying its OK if we're not competitive these rubes will keep buying and supporting. That's the size of it folks. Nothing will change unless the fan base changes it themselves by cutting off the team financially. That's the only thing that will work. If the team threatens to leave because of lack of support so be it. It will be better then dealing with this crap every year. This fan base is loyal and supportive to a fault. Time to do something about the putrid return on our investments. LV I think you should definitely withdraw all your support for the Bills, even, dare I say it, if it means ending your participation at this site. You have my complete, unqualified support in that endeavor. Show us the way sparky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 (edited) Same old, same old. It's all been said before. It's being said on the message boards of the lower tier NFL teams all over the country. And my response will always be the same: It's entertainment. If this form of entertainment is bothering you that much, then choose another. except that it's not just entertainment. it's a colossal business, part of the cultural fabric and involves tax dollars and carve outs in anti trust laws. it affects local and regional economies significantly. and, as well documented here, it's no longer influenced by the everyman fan or taxpayer. Edited December 4, 2013 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26TrapDraw Posted December 4, 2013 Author Share Posted December 4, 2013 1 - I think EJ Manuel is gonna be a franchise QB 2 - The minute he was announced the opening day starter I knew this was a rebiuld year 3 - Take a look at our friggen schedule.....how many teams are we playing off byes or semi byes this year 4 - We have been ravaged by injury yet again 5 - Despite our record......this team better then last years 6 - Rookie HC......Rookie OC 7 - This team wants to play run up the middle football....but is missing pieces on this team to do it It is frustrating to lose for so long.....but you cannot fall into the trap of blaming the CURRENT guys for prior year guys mistakes........you have to give these guys a chance This is a valid point. 14 yrs and counting got the better of me in my post. I am so passionate about this team like the rest here are that I lost sight of the facts and posted bas.ed on emotion. I'm a big boy I can admit it. I just needed my bretheren to talk me of the ledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Ralph is just a shortsighted and old-fashioned businessman who has a tendency of being both petty and too clever by half. But Ralph is too stupid to undertand this. Screw Ralph That's it, I'll stand down from my soap box. But you can underline and frame it: I have zero respect for Ralph Wilson. And I'll stand down from my soap box. And you can underline it and frame it. I have zero respect for Coach Tuesday. Grow up people. Ralph bashing is un-classy and makes you look stupid. Seriously stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I opened this thread for the 1st time thinking that it might be interesting. Nope, just another ridiculous "boycott the Bills" or "revolution starts with the people" threads. Dumb idea, the team would be profitable if they didn't sell a single ticket so you don't have that aspect. There's no "bluffing" from Ralph. If you want to make a statement you need to organize something more realistic (ie paper bags). It really is an exercise in futility but if the need to protest is there -try something that could gain traction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26TrapDraw Posted December 4, 2013 Author Share Posted December 4, 2013 And I'll stand down from my soap box. And you can underline it and frame it. I have zero respect for Coach Tuesday. Grow up people. Ralph bashing is un-classy and makes you look stupid. Seriously stupid. Ralph?...how'd you get an account on this site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 The problem with your take is that many people (myself Included) really enjoy football in general and love the experience of going to an NFL game regardless of outcome or record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bills-to-remain-in-buffalo/ Kind of the aftermath... 1998 was before the real proliferation of the Internet and 100000 sources covering nfl. I do recall at the time being made very afraid of the team's future in buffalo This link really does not discuss or refer to any threat that Ralph made to leave town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I don't see the point of boycotting a multi-millionaire. He has so much money, he doesn't need yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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