A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[BADOLBILZ]

I don't understand your hyper-criticism of this coaching staff, especially considering what preceded them. Is there any doubt that this defensive staff is better than its predecessors? The OC has done a solid job with what he was working with at qb. Calling games for backup caliber qbs (Lewis and Tiel) and then calling games for a rookie qb who has missed practice time prior to the season and during the season is not an easy task.

 

There is a delicate balance that Hackett has to always keep in mind when calling plays for Manuel: He hss to call plays that the rookie qb is able to make at his experience level. You don't think there is a difference calling plays for a Brees or Brady? The repertoire of plays at their disposal is significantly larger than what a rookie qb can handle.

 

When you are a defensive or offensive coordinator you are at the mercy of your talent level. The success of most plays has more to do with the talent of players executing the play (offense and defense) than the play itself.

 

In general, I think the coaching staff is demonstrably better than the prior coaching staffs. Very often what is lost is the player development aspect of their job. It is more than working up a game plan. It is also about developing your younger talent. There again I think they have done a good job.

 

It was very evident to me when the season started that this roster was very limited. This year was mostly dedicated to rebuilding a lackluster roster. In almost every game the team gave a good effort. The team, with the exception of the Steeler and away Jets game, was never outclassed. In general my view is that the HC and his staff have done a quality job.

 

We vary on our opinion of roster quality. There are 6 guys on that defense that deserve Pro Bowl consideration, IMO. Mario, Kyle Williams, Dareus, Alonso, McKelvin and Byrd. Only one of those guys wasn't a first or second round pick(KW). The physical talent was there for this to be a dynamic defense and at times they have been that. The offense is not bereft of talent either. The OL was solid except for one glaring mistake at LG. Glenn has been great. The RB's are very good and the receiving corps is solid. QB play has been the key limiting factor for the coaching staff........but they played only one good opponent away from home on their way to 4-8 and that was New Orleans. The week-to-week layout of this season presented many opportunities to win and the Bills just didn't win. That's all there is to it. On the road they have played dismal football against a very favorable schedule of opponents. The Saints were a mismatch but......the Jets? Browns? Steelers? Dolphins? will all likely end up with losing records and the Bills only won 1 of those.......a game where they played awful football.

Edited December 3, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ

[dave mcbride]

We vary on our opinion of roster quality. There are 6 guys on that defense that deserve Pro Bowl consideration, IMO. Mario, Kyle Williams, Dareus, Alonso, McKelvin and Byrd. Only one of those guys wasn't a first or second round pick(KW). The physical talent was there for this to be a dynamic defense and at times they have been that. The offense is not bereft of talent either. The OL was solid except for one glaring mistake at LG. Glenn has been great. The RB's are very good and the receiving corps is solid. QB play has been the key limiting factor for the coaching staff........but they played only one good opponent away from home on their way to 4-8 and that was New Orleans. The week-to-week layout of this season presented many opportunities to win and the Bills just didn't win. That's all there is to it. On the road they have played dismal football against a very favorable schedule of opponents. The Saints were a mismatch but......the Jets? Browns? Steelers? Dolphins? will all likely end up with losing records and the Bills only won 1 of those.......a game where they played awful football.

 

I can't argue with this. The one thing I'd add is the weakness at the TE position. It's a very important position in today's NFL, and most of the good teams have strong TE play. Chandler is a decent #2 TE (and good teams often have two good TEs), but there is no #1 that can take coverage away from Woods/Goodwin/Johnson. If you want a comparison, take the Giants. They usually have a solid-to-very good offense, but when your top TE is Brandon Myers and with no real second TE, you end up ranked 26th in points and 27th in yards. This was a contract year for Hakeem Nicks, and defenses have just taken him away because of the lack of a TE threat in the middle of the field. Chandler is at least better than Myers, but not by a whole lot.

[Coach Tuesday]

I can't argue with this. The one thing I'd add is the weakness at the TE position. It's a very important position in today's NFL, and most of the good teams have strong TE play. Chandler is a decent #2 TE (and good teams often have two good TEs), but there is no #1 that can take coverage away from Woods/Goodwin/Johnson. If you want a comparison, take the Giants. They usually have a solid-to-very good offense, but when your top TE is Brandon Myers and with no real second TE, you end up ranked 26th in points and 27th in yards. This was a contract year for Hakeem Nicks, and defenses have just taken him away because of the lack of a TE threat in the middle of the field. Chandler is at least better than Myers, but not by a whole lot.

 

Your #2 TE better be able to block, and Chandler can't block. Chandler is simply no longer a starting-caliber player. Whatever marginal speed he had has been zapped by his leg injuries. He needs to be replaced outright, not just demoted.

[dave mcbride]

Your #2 TE better be able to block, and Chandler can't block. Chandler is simply no longer a starting-caliber player. Whatever marginal speed he had has been zapped by his leg injuries. He needs to be replaced outright, not just demoted.

I think blocking at the TE is nice to have, but it's gravy in today's NFL. Gronkowski, Vernon Davis, and Jimmy Graham aren't great blockers either. They're serviceable (barely), but that's not why they excel. Anyway, the Bills don't have a backup TE worth the name. But you're right, the #2 guy should be able to block. But he also has to be able to catch it too.

Edited December 3, 2013 by dave mcbride

[chris heff]

 

 

One of the things I liked about Wages of Destruction was its description of Germany's food situation. Do the other two books you mentioned contain similar descriptions?

I'd like to apologize for the gratuitous "pontification" remark. In my case it would be the pot calling the kettle.

 

I would also like to say that I agree with you as to the attributes it requires to be a good QB. The ability to process information quickly, accuracy, and arm strength are very important. The latter two being much easier to measure than the first. There are also a lot of intangibles, leadership, fortitude and character. I don't believe data can measure the heart of an individual.

[JohnC]

 

 

We vary on our opinion of roster quality. There are 6 guys on that defense that deserve Pro Bowl consideration, IMO. Mario, Kyle Williams, Dareus, Alonso, McKelvin and Byrd. Only one of those guys wasn't a first or second round pick(KW). The physical talent was there for this to be a dynamic defense and at times they have been that. The offense is not bereft of talent either. The OL was solid except for one glaring mistake at LG. Glenn has been great. The RB's are very good and the receiving corps is solid. QB play has been the key limiting factor for the coaching staff........but they played only one good opponent away from home on their way to 4-8 and that was New Orleans. The week-to-week layout of this season presented many opportunities to win and the Bills just didn't win. That's all there is to it. On the road they have played dismal football against a very favorable schedule of opponents. The Saints were a mismatch but......the Jets? Browns? Steelers? Dolphins? will all likely end up with losing records and the Bills only won 1 of those.......a game where they played awful football.

 

I respectably disagree with your positive view of the roster. Our OL strains to be average. The departure of Levitre left a gaping hole filled by inadequate players. A number of people like Pears (most notably NYC Bill) but I consider him below par. He was a good value pickup but his level of play is average at best. Our receiver corps is below par. The emotional Stevie is not a #1 receiver. He is a decent #2 and a better slot receiver. Woods and Goodwin are good prospects but TJ Graham is another one of Nix's catalogue of busts. Chandler is not a starting TE but I do like him as a second TE. If you consider that the offense is led by a rookie who entered the league very raw then the offense has a way to go. I grant you that Glenn is a superb player that Nix deserves credit for.

 

Let's look at the defense. The LBing corps is horrible---- maybe the worst in the league. Kiki is going to be an upper tier player but at this point he frequently gets caught up in the pack and forgets his lane responsibility. Most of the big running plays against the defense are due to his lack of discipline and over exuberance to react. I agree with you the the DL has played relatively well. But the play of the LBing corps has undercut the good work of the DL. Our DL excels in rushing the passer but they have been gashed on too many running plays. I am a staunch supporter of Gilmore. But I do acknowledge that this year he is not playing well. I attribute much of his decline (from last year) to his injury.

 

I still believe that the Bills are two years away from being a serious team, with the assumption that Manuel develops to the degree that I think he will. Since the departure of Nix and the elevation of Whaley I have felt that this is a three year rebuilding project. I still believe that.

 

Again my view is that this staff has done a solid job with what they had to work with. I respectfully but strongly disagree with the judgment that this was a playoff roster.

Edited December 3, 2013 by JohnC

[atlbillsfan1975]

WOW. Just WOW. Please elaborate on how Hackett called a bad game yesterday. Please elaborate on how he fumbled away two chances at winning. I'd love to hear how 400+ yards of offense is bad.

 

John Murphy hung up on every caller who blamed the loss on Hackett today. Wonder why???

 

 

 

Really?? With his best friend Wannstache as d coordinator? With Gailey and crew we might not have won one game.

Hackett stinks. He has no feel for the game or how to call a good game.

News flash, the Falcons D STINKS!!!!!

How about on 3rd and 2 in the second half throwing a bomb. This is after you have rushed for near 150yds!!

Or how about deep in your own end throwing two bombs on second and third down??

Hackett is horrible buddy. he plain out belongs calling games for Syracuse!

I am sorry but that was a must win game against an inferior opponent. I watch most Falcons games. I went to two of them. They are brutal.

You guys can keep hoping that Hackett and Marrone are going to turn things around. I use to do this too. I did it with all the coaches since Wade. And guess what they all have let me down. Marrone is a big goof on the sideline.

Sorry but this team will go no where with Marrone and his buddy Hackett.

[K-9]

Hackett stinks. He has no feel for the game or how to call a good game.

News flash, the Falcons D STINKS!!!!!

How about on 3rd and 2 in the second half throwing a bomb. This is after you have rushed for near 150yds!!

Or how about deep in your own end throwing two bombs on second and third down??

Hackett is horrible buddy. he plain out belongs calling games for Syracuse!

I am sorry but that was a must win game against an inferior opponent. I watch most Falcons games. I went to two of them. They are brutal.

You guys can keep hoping that Hackett and Marrone are going to turn things around. I use to do this too. I did it with all the coaches since Wade. And guess what they all have let me down. Marrone is a big goof on the sideline.

Sorry but this team will go no where with Marrone and his buddy Hackett.

 

I didn't see the game. But were these bomb attempts against man coverage? Because our QBs all have the green light to go to that play whenever they see that coverage. I'm not certain Hackett is the one to pin those attempts on.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[atlbillsfan1975]

I didn't see the game. But were these bomb attempts against man coverage? Because our QBs all have the green light to go to that play whenever they see that coverage. I'm not certain Hackett is the one to pin those attempts on.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Point is why have them as an option?

I mean 3rd and 2 run the ball. Deep in your own end design safe plays. Get a first down and get back some field position.

Communication looks off between Hackett and EJ. Except for the Jets game there has not been a lot of times when the O seems to be in rythm for long stretches.

I am not sure about man coverage, but EJ is a rookie. It is up to the staff to manage him and help him manage the games at this point in his career.

[Gray Beard]

Point is why have them as an option?

I mean 3rd and 2 run the ball. Deep in your own end design safe plays. Get a first down and get back some field position.

Communication looks off between Hackett and EJ. Except for the Jets game there has not been a lot of times when the O seems to be in rythm for long stretches.

I am not sure about man coverage, but EJ is a rookie. It is up to the staff to manage him and help him manage the games at this point in his career.

When that bomb was thrown on third and two (along the sidelines to a well covered receiver) I immediately gave up any hope that the Bills would win the game. Gailey used to make that call all the time. Fitz didn't have the arm strength or the accuracy, and EJ doesn't have the accuracy. As expected he threw it over everyone's head. What sort of cleverness do these play callers think they have when they call that play? I know the Bills aren't the only ones who do it, but I will never understand it.

[BADOLBILZ]

When that bomb was thrown on third and two (along the sidelines to a well covered receiver) I immediately gave up any hope that the Bills would win the game. Gailey used to make that call all the time. Fitz didn't have the arm strength or the accuracy, and EJ doesn't have the accuracy. As expected he threw it over everyone's head. What sort of cleverness do these play callers think they have when they call that play? I know the Bills aren't the only ones who do it, but I will never understand it.

 

They have done it a lot this season and I have concluded that Hackett would rather punt than risk subjecting EJ to throwing tightly contested third down throws that could result in deflating turnovers. These downfield throws are low percentage completions but also very high reward and very low risk.

 

Seeing some of EJ's inaccurate early game throws I can't really blame him. For a team that has a history of quitting when the going gets tough it is important for the coaches to keep them out of those kind of deflating circumstances.

[DC Tom]

When that bomb was thrown on third and two (along the sidelines to a well covered receiver) I immediately gave up any hope that the Bills would win the game. Gailey used to make that call all the time. Fitz didn't have the arm strength or the accuracy, and EJ doesn't have the accuracy. As expected he threw it over everyone's head. What sort of cleverness do these play callers think they have when they call that play? I know the Bills aren't the only ones who do it, but I will never understand it.

 

It keeps the safeties paying attention to the deep routes, so they don't cheat up too much towards the line.

 

Works better, of course, if you have a QB that can hit the long pass, but you can't just play the game within ten yards of the LOS.

 

Plus...sometimes you just want to get the ball in the vicinity of your receivers and let THEM try to make the play.

 

PLUS...a deep throw's as much timing as accuracy. You're not throwing to a target, you're throwing to where you think a target will be in three or four seconds. Conversely, the target has to know where to be in three or four seconds. It takes a bit of playing to develop that sense of timing.

[K-9]

Point is why have them as an option?

I mean 3rd and 2 run the ball. Deep in your own end design safe plays. Get a first down and get back some field position.

Communication looks off between Hackett and EJ. Except for the Jets game there has not been a lot of times when the O seems to be in rythm for long stretches.

I am not sure about man coverage, but EJ is a rookie. It is up to the staff to manage him and help him manage the games at this point in his career.

 

Why have them as an option? I think that's obvious.

 

As for managing EJ, I agree entirely. But part of that is giving him the leeway to make a big play if he sees the opportunity. Our QBs have ALL hit that play this season, from Tuel to Lewis to EJ. It's a nice arrow to have in your quiver.

 

Like I said, I didn't see the game. And I'll take your word for it that EJ perhaps could have made a better decision. I'm just not sure Hackett is to blame is all. It's like Tuel's INT at the goal line against KC. Everybody jumped on Hackett but it was an audible by Tuel in response to a certain look he saw. I'm glad our OC trusts his QBs to extend themselves.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[San-O]

When that bomb was thrown on third and two (along the sidelines to a well covered receiver) I immediately gave up any hope that the Bills would win the game. Gailey used to make that call all the time. Fitz didn't have the arm strength or the accuracy, and EJ doesn't have the accuracy. As expected he threw it over everyone's head. What sort of cleverness do these play callers think they have when they call that play? I know the Bills aren't the only ones who do it, but I will never understand it.

 

This has been an issue and stated also be follow posters. Why the O.C. can't figure out the QB can't make that throw is beyond me.

 

E.J. not only routinely doesn't make that throw, he typically does over through, and other posters have again said many times the ball is actually thrown out of bounds.

 

Some of the play calling is so very predictable:

[Solomon Grundy]

Can someone tell me who are the "LEADERS" on this team? Is their anyone on roster to get in players face and say " handle your assignment"? In short, who are the Thurman Thomases, Jim Kellys, Darryl Talleys? That's another aspect this team is missing, bonafide leaders!

[Simon]

They have done it a lot this season and I have concluded that Hackett would rather punt than risk subjecting EJ to throwing tightly contested third down throws that could result in deflating turnovers. These downfield throws are low percentage completions but also very high reward and very low risk.

 

Seeing some of EJ's inaccurate early game throws I can't really blame him. For a team that has a history of quitting when the going gets tough it is important for the coaches to keep them out of those kind of deflating circumstances.

 

They've called up that deep fade in that down and distance about a halfdozen times this year, which is definitely over the top(I crack myself up). I like it on occasion because it absolutely messes with a corner's head and invariably creates space in the flat that the offense can utilize at some point later in the game. What I don't like is that they seem to feel the need to keep throwing it at TJ Graham and his 9" catch radius.

[Dibs]

We vary on our opinion of roster quality. There are 6 guys on that defense that deserve Pro Bowl consideration, IMO. Mario, Kyle Williams, Dareus, Alonso, McKelvin and Byrd. Only one of those guys wasn't a first or second round pick(KW). The physical talent was there for this to be a dynamic defense and at times they have been that. The offense is not bereft of talent either. The OL was solid except for one glaring mistake at LG. Glenn has been great. The RB's are very good and the receiving corps is solid. QB play has been the key limiting factor for the coaching staff........but they played only one good opponent away from home on their way to 4-8 and that was New Orleans. The week-to-week layout of this season presented many opportunities to win and the Bills just didn't win. That's all there is to it. On the road they have played dismal football against a very favorable schedule of opponents. The Saints were a mismatch but......the Jets? Browns? Steelers? Dolphins? will all likely end up with losing records and the Bills only won 1 of those.......a game where they played awful football.

 

If not for the concept that you are using this assessment to denounce the coaching, I agree with the it 100%.

 

You may be right to blame the coaches.....or you may be wrong. The next couple of seasons will tell the final story.

 

I believe that the limiting factor you listed above of "QB play" has had a much higher effect on the outcomes of the games we have played than it seems that you believe. Solid QB play....even basic solid game manager type QB play would likely have seen us win @Jets, @CLE, CIN, & KC & .....possibly @PIT as well.....with an additional Bills irony being that we very most likely would have won the ATL game regardless if not for the unfortunate confluence of horrid events at the end of that game.

 

I don't know how good/mediocre/bad our coaches are.....but it seems pretty obvious that we would be easily in the playoffs if not for the limiting factor at the QB position we have had this season.

[dave mcbride]

 

 

They have done it a lot this season and I have concluded that Hackett would rather punt than risk subjecting EJ to throwing tightly contested third down throws that could result in deflating turnovers. These downfield throws are low percentage completions but also very high reward and very low risk.

 

Seeing some of EJ's inaccurate early game throws I can't really blame him. For a team that has a history of quitting when the going gets tough it is important for the coaches to keep them out of those kind of deflating circumstances.

Yep, and i don't disagree with the philosophy. Runs on 3rd and 2 almost never work, at least for the Bills for the last ten or so years. I do love the shift to the qb sneak on 3rd and very short.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

If not for the concept that you are using this assessment to denounce the coaching, I agree with the it 100%.

 

You may be right to blame the coaches.....or you may be wrong. The next couple of seasons will tell the final story.

 

I believe that the limiting factor you listed above of "QB play" has had a much higher effect on the outcomes of the games we have played than it seems that you believe. Solid QB play....even basic solid game manager type QB play would likely have seen us win @Jets, @CLE, CIN, & KC & .....possibly @PIT as well.....with an additional Bills irony being that we very most likely would have won the ATL game regardless if not for the unfortunate confluence of horrid events at the end of that game.

 

I don't know how good/mediocre/bad our coaches are.....but it seems pretty obvious that we would be easily in the playoffs if not for the limiting factor at the QB position we have had this season.

 

My problem with the coaches is that they took much of the game out of the QB's hands this year in a conservative attempt to win close games with the ground game and defense....a formula that CAN work well enough to get a team into the playoffs......and they got a schedule that worked for their approach.....and lost. You are what your record says you are. I am not saying they don't deserve another chance but they don't deserve credit for FAILING at what they were trying to do.

 

I will say this much about the balance of the schedule.......they need to open it up now and see what they have in EJ Manuel. If they keep playing "run to set up the punt" in the last quarter of the season then we have a problem with this staff. I want to see the offense developed into a more balanced attack so we aren't playing the same tune next season.

[3rdand12]

Can someone tell me who are the "LEADERS" on this team? Is their anyone on roster to get in players face and say " handle your assignment"? In short, who are the Thurman Thomases, Jim Kellys, Darryl Talleys? That's another aspect this team is missing, bonafide leaders!

Fred Jackson.

Kyle Williams for starters. very vocal and lead by example. always have.

 

Bill from NYC has good points and much dialogue has occurred over these ten pages. i like that.

i would love to cover all the points but thats just too much to dialogue.

 

bullets though.

 

Defensive line is fine or even very good. all of them besides young Charles and Bryant. looking forward to Carrington (bust ) return

McKelvin has played his shorts off.

Gilmore is slumping to the point of losing games for us. strong words i know.

Leonard is smoked

byrd is very good

A William has turned me into a fan

Searcy is being used correctly and is an asset.

Robey is another gem

Brooks is untried and still looks questionable albeit limited play of course.

Kiko has exceeded all hope regardless of a few major mistakes. ( a shitton of responsibility for the kid )

Manny has been a boon.

hughes a surprise bonus.

moats is still situational.

Bradham is still ST player so far.

 

Stevie has slid down the slippery pole. keep him another year but dont throw the clutch passes to him. simple right ? he does get open almost all the time though

graham sucks but blocks ok

Wood i have high hopes for

Goodwin i am in love with

Easely and Hogan ? just dont know.

Chandler has not regained what he had pre injury and looks a shell. Cant block a hay bale

L Smith is not in the favor of the staff

Cragg didnt dress ?

Summers i love in theory as a fullback. not so much on kick returns.

Fred is my idol.

CJ will get it together when the coaching staff does.

T Choice is fine for what he offers. for now. he is a gamer still.

i am not to spend time on the o line as i think almost all agree what the issues are to improve the play. and it's not Nathaniel .

EJ...

He is our future. Long way to go but has a ton of potential. And i expect him to develop along with the new staff.

 

Its a slow go and painful and then fun.

Thanks Bill for getting this started.

 

Easy wind , blowin across the Bayou today