Toronto/Southern ON has passed Rochester as #2 market

[Offside Number 76]

this is a great idea, but when was the last time anyone from Albany did anything for Western NY? They have taxed all the businesses away, and won't spend any $$ to revamp that area. NYS needs a Gov from Western NY.

 

Two weeks ago?

 

But I get, and agree with, your larger point.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Offsides Number 76

[tennesseeboy]

Well if the team would move to Toronto there would be a Huge loss of the buffalo number one market and the Rochester number three market. Imagine that number of people at the border week after week. Would Toronto and southern Ontario buy into a listing team? A stadium in niagara falls new York would help increase the Rochester market an certainly not harm the buffalo market while still very accessible to canadians

[BADOLBILZ]

It's a shame and NYS is to blame...they turned it into a state park, so all the money goes to them and doesnt stay locally. See what the Canadian side has done for how to do it.

 

With the number of tourists coming through, Niagara Falls should be one of the richest places in the country not some ghetto

 

A grand stadium/entertainment complex in Niagara Falls USA is an obvious, perfect scenario. It essentially covers all aspects needed to have a successful NFL franchise in a future where revenues will need to dwarf what is available currently. Corporate money that won't come to Orchard Park will come to Niagara Falls because those suites are all about entertainment. Toronto is a great city, but like most cities it is primarily a working town. Niagara Falls is all about entertainment.....and as you say, the US side has barely scratched the surface of it's potential. It wouldn't be the least attractive Super Bowl site either. There are big issues with Niagara Falls politics and there would be a ton of moving parts in such a deal but if you are projecting 20 years down the line it is a better location than Buffalo or Toronto.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

when it comes to ticket sales, according to Russ Brandon on WGR this morning.

Yeah right. Anybody can say anything.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

That's interesting. In January, he said: "Southern Ontario is now our number-two sister market when it comes to fans in Ralph Wilson Stadium on Sundays."--to Joe B on WGR.

 

Now Ontario is the number one? Ok Russ......we'll see the veracity of that statement when they show all those empty seats in the Skydome Sunday.

 

January was at the tail end of last season. Since then the Bills have enjoyed approximately 420,000 new paying customers. Is it too hard to believe that things have changed in the last 11 months?

 

Russ could claim half the fans in the stands are from Ontario. There is no way to verify it ----and it is an important way for him to continuously sell the narrative that pimping the Bills to a Canadian family has been vital to their continued existence as an NFL franchise.

 

They are privately held so there's no way for us to verify it. It would be pretty damn easy for the Bills to verify as the vast majority of season tickets and single game seats are paid on a credit or debit card and not with cash.

 

BTW, why do you theorize that Russ is lying about this issue?

 

Check the open container violations.

 

LOL

 

I trust Russ Brandon. He talked about having an analytics department in January and lo and behold, 10 months later we got one. He talked about the roster being better after Nix, and lo and behold we're 4-7 now. He talked about Buddy Nix being the GM for a long time and lo and behold a few weeks later 'ole Buddy was retired.

 

Why would anyone not trust Russ?

 

Yep. He made good on his promise to establish analytics. The team appears to be more talented than they were a year ago. And Brandon adopted a Belichickian approach to Nix's future so as not to tip the hand of the organization.

 

"Objectively" speaking, why would anyone not trust Russ?

[Mr. WEO]

Wow. Where to start?

 

It wouldn't matter if the Bills drew 10,000 a game in Toronto, because I'm NOT arguing that the Bills in TO series has been a success AT THE GATE. Sure they have made money (and paid Mario Williams) with this deal, but what I am arguing is, by physically playing in Toronto and by striking that deal, the Bills staked claim to that market FOR THE NEXT OWNER. By cementing the Buffalo-Toronto relationship, you make the potential future value of the franchise much greater, thereby improving ROI for the next prospective owner.

 

Are there still people who think ticket sales trump corporate support?

 

People need to get over the "woe is me" stuff and accept the reality that the Buffalo market without TO has no future in the NFL. I suggest that people who have trouble with this watch a few episodes of "Shark Tank" and learn to think like investors do.

 

You can start by explaining what exactly is this corporate support? Is it more luxury suites purchased? More Canadian companies paying to be "the official _____ of the Buffalo Bills"? Where is the evidence of it after 5 years? Why aren't these companies giving this support now? Why would they be more likely to support the next owner than they were for Ralph---unless the Bills were right there in Toronto?

 

 

January was at the tail end of last season. Since then the Bills have enjoyed approximately 420,000 new paying customers. Is it too hard to believe that things have changed in the last 11 months?

 

 

 

They are privately held so there's no way for us to verify it. It would be pretty damn easy for the Bills to verify as the vast majority of season tickets and single game seats are paid on a credit or debit card and not with cash.

 

BTW, why do you theorize that Russ is lying about this issue?

 

 

 

LOL

 

 

 

Yep. He made good on his promise to establish analytics. The team appears to be more talented than they were a year ago. And Brandon adopted a Belichickian approach to Nix's future so as not to tip the hand of the organization.

 

"Objectively" speaking, why would anyone not trust Russ?

 

420,000 new paying customers in the past year? For 7 home games? 60,000 new Canadians in the stands per game? OK.....is that what Russ told you?

 

And what "hand tipping" was Russ avoiding by lying about Nix's future with the team? What is your point there? How was it Belichickian?

[PromoTheRobot]

Hey, at least Canadians like football.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/10/30/5042694/london-reaction-nfl-jaguars-49ers

 

PTR

[San Jose Bills Fan]

You can start by explaining what exactly is this corporate support? Is it more luxury suites purchased? More Canadian companies paying to be "the official _____ of the Buffalo Bills"? Where is the evidence of it after 5 years? Why aren't these companies giving this support now? Why would they be more likely to support the next owner than they were for Ralph---unless the Bills were right there in Toronto?

 

420,000 new paying customers in the past year? For 7 home games? 60,000 new Canadians in the stands per game? OK.....is that what Russ told you?

 

And what "hand tipping" was Russ avoiding by lying about Nix's future with the team? What is your point there? How was it Belichickian?

 

I'll try to slow down for you.

 

The Bills have had 6 home games so far this year since your alleged statements by Brandon. That means roughly 420,000 fans have been to see the Bills at Ralph Wilson Stadium since Brandon made the statements you cite.

 

That means he has 420,000 sales records to analyze. Even if "only" 300,000 of those ticket purchases were done by credit/debit card, he would have a clear idea of who is buying the tickets and whether more Canadians buy tickets than Rochester customers. You see, 300,000 purchases is a pretty big sample size.

 

So my point which I thought was pretty obvious is that the Canadian market may have just this year, surpassed the Rochester market in ticket sales.

 

Clear enough?

 

So you never answered the question about why you think Brandon is lying about this. Why would he do this?

 

As for being Belichickian, you're clearly not familiar with Belichick. Often he has no reason at all to be secretive but that doesn't ever stop him from being secretive. Let me ask you this:

 

What would the Bills have to gain by letting their opponents know in advance that Nix was stepping down?

 

You're the sort of person who would criticize Brandon for being open. At the moment you're criticizing him for being secretive. Big surprise.

Edited November 29, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Mr. WEO]

I'll try to slow down for you.

 

The Bills have had 6 home games so far this year since your alleged statements by Brandon. That means roughly 420,000 fans have been to see the Bills at Ralph Wilson Stadium since Brandon made the statements you cite.

 

That means he has 420,000 sales records to analyze. Even if "only" 300,000 of those ticket purchases were done by credit/debit card, he would have a clear idea of who is buying the tickets and whether more Canadians buy tickets than Rochester customers. You see, 300,000 purchases is a pretty big sample size.

 

So my point which I thought was pretty obvious is that the Canadian market may have just this year, surpassed the Rochester market in ticket sales.

 

Clear enough?

 

So you never answered the question about why you think Brandon is lying about this. Why would he do this?

 

As for being Belichickian, you're clearly not familiar with Belichick. Often he has no reason at all to be secretive but that doesn't ever stop him from being secretive. Let me ask you this:

 

What would the Bills have to gain by letting their opponents know in advance that Nix was stepping down?

 

You're the sort of person who would criticize Brandon for being open. At the moment you're criticizing him for being secretive. Big surprise.

 

You said "420,000 new paying customers". New means they weren't paying customers before (which is the whole point of this discussion)--unless you're going to change the meaning of "new" at this point....

 

I answered two days ago why he would push the narrative (right before another "sellout" in the Skydome, of course) that the Toronto pimp out of the Bills was such a great thing after all.....because it's been a PR disaster. The fans hate it, the players hate it and the Canadians don't care for it. We see no evidence of all of this supposed "corporate sponsorship" coming south of the border despite 5 years of this relationship. So he simply says it's been awesome---the best move by the Bills ever.

 

As for Nix, keeping the rest of the league "in the dark" about Nix's fate provided absolutely no logical advantage, unless you thought by Russ lying about it prevented Nix from being scoped up by another team. This is laughable because after his first 3 years and drafts, every other team in the league saw his demise coming a mile away.

[TedWilliamsFrozenHead]

 

 

this is a great idea, but when was the last time anyone from Albany did anything for Western NY? They have taxed all the businesses away, and won't spend any $$ to revamp that area. NYS needs a Gov from Western NY.

Corporation taxes are generally very low in NYS. Most small businesses usually fall under the Fixed Dollar Minimum tax rate:

For example, a Corporation with $250,000.00 in receipts pays a flat seventy five bucks in tax under fixed min. tax rates.

Current 2012 tax rates in NYS)

The business and investment capital base is the total investment and business capital allocated to New York State after deducting short-term and long-term liabilities attributable to assets. The current tax rate is .15%. (A new small business corporation may claim an exemption from the tax on this base for its first two tax years if it meets certain requirements.) The tax on capital is limited to $350,000 for qualified New York manufacturers, and $1 million for all other taxpayers.

 

The minimum taxable income (MTI) base equals entire net income allocated to New York State plus certain federal items of tax preference and adjustments allocated to New York. Taxpayers are allowed to deduct an alternative net operating loss against this base. The current tax rate is 1.5%.

 

For tax years beginning on or after January 1, 2012, and before January 1, 2015, the MTI tax rate for eligible qualified New York manufacturers is .75%.

 

The fixed dollar minimum (FDM) tax is determined by the corporation's New York State receipts. The current amounts of the FDM tax are as follows:

For a corporation with New York State receipts of: Tax

Not more than $100,000 $25*

More than $100,000 but not over $250,000 $75*

More than $250,000 but not over $500,000 $175*

More than $500,000 but not over $1,000,000 $500

More than $1,000,000 but not over $5,000,000 $1,500

More than $5,000,000 but not over $25,000,000 $3,500

Over $25,000,000 $5,000

 

There are higher "Corp Tax" rates, but with deductions, and tax credits, the actual tax paid is frequently at a much lower rate:

 

 

A general business corporation that is subject to tax under Article 9-A is every corporation except:

 

a banking corporation (Article 32);

an insurance corporation (including certain for-profit HMOs) (Article 33);

a transportation and transmission corporation (other than aviation corporations, corporations principally engaged in transportation, transmission, or distribution of gas, electricity, or steam (TTD corporations), and non-electing railroad and trucking corporations) (Article 9);

a farmer's cooperative or an agricultural cooperative (Article 9);

a nonstock or not-for-profit corporation, no part of whose net earnings inures to the benefit of any officer, director, or member;

a continuing section 186 taxpayer (Article 9).

 

The entire net income (ENI) base equals federal taxable income allocated to New York State with certain modifications for items of income and deduction that New York treats differently. The current tax rates for ENI are as follows:

Tax base Tax rate

ENI base for general business taxpayers 7.1%

 

ENI base for qualified small business taxpayers:

 

ENI base of $290,000 or less

 

ENI base of more than $290,000 but not more than $390,000 6.5%

 

$18,850

plus 7.1% of the amount over $290,000

plus 4.35% of the amount over $350,000

 

For tax years beginning on or after January 31, 2007

ENI base for qualified New York manufacturers 6.5%

 

For tax years beginning on or after January 1, 2012, and before January 1, 2015, ENI base for eligible qualified New York manufacturers 3.25%

Edited December 1, 2013 by NASCAR Hater