birdog1960 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) at the link the article i linked highlighted the pope's comments on abortion as well as redistribution. i've read several others and they've all mentioned it. there's no inconsistency in his statements. there's really no argument as to what he really means on these two issues. the redistribution issue is of higher priority to many people, Christian or not. that i chose to highlight his comments on economic issues illustrates that it is for me. it doesn't follow that I or anyone else that agrees with his stance on redistribution disagree with any of his other opinions. I visited the Vatican and Jerusalem a couple of years ago and one of the things I always tell people is how the Vatican basically feels like Vegas with a drop of Holy Water. you must go to different hotels in vegas than any i've ever been in. i've been to the vatican as well and i had a very different experience. perhaps you should attend a mass there. maybe a guided tour of the art works in and around the vatican (not that they are integral to the faith but beauty is wasted if not appreciated). i see no similarities between the two places whatever. and did you find jerusalem similar to vegas as well? Edited May 9, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 you must go to different hotels in vegas than any i've ever been in. i've been to the vatican as well and i had a very different experience. perhaps you should attend a mass there. maybe a guided tour of the art works in and around the vatican (not that they are integral to the faith but beauty is wasted if not appreciated). i see no similarities between the two places whatever. and did you find jerusalem similar to vegas as well? No i didn't. As a born catholic, what i saw in jerusalem was the church of the holy sepulchre which to me is what represents christianity. There was a greater feeling of tradition knowing what took place there. On the other hand, the vatican just felt rich and touristy. The complete opposite of what i feel christianity is all about. I can say that the only thing i saw in the vatican that i was awestruck was the sistine chapel. Sadly many catholics will never step into the church of the holy sepulchre. Unless you've actually been to jerusalem, you can't really understand how it felt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 No i didn't. As a born catholic, what i saw in jerusalem was the church of the holy sepulchre which to me is what represents christianity. There was a greater feeling of tradition knowing what took place there. On the other hand, the vatican just felt rich and touristy. The complete opposite of what i feel christianity is all about. I can say that the only thing i saw in the vatican that i was awestruck was the sistine chapel. Sadly many catholics will never step into the church of the holy sepulchre. Unless you've actually been to jerusalem, you can't really understand how it felt. the pomp and opulence can get in the way for some people. i think st peter's basilica is breathtaking and inspirational. i see many of the treasures in the vatican as remnants of a bygone era when the church acted as one of the world's major and most important arts benefactors. one could argue that they divest themselves of all the treasures but if sold to individuals, the public would likely be denied access to many of the works. in effect, ther vatican is in this way acting as an extremely popular and accessible museum. that certainly shouldn't be it's main focus and it isn't. francis is clearly not interested in personal wealth and institutional wealth, where it exists in the church, is under intense scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 No i didn't. As a born catholic, what i saw in jerusalem was the church of the holy sepulchre which to me is what represents christianity. There was a greater feeling of tradition knowing what took place there. On the other hand, the vatican just felt rich and touristy. The complete opposite of what i feel christianity is all about. I can say that the only thing i saw in the vatican that i was awestruck was the sistine chapel. Sadly many catholics will never step into the church of the holy sepulchre. Unless you've actually been to jerusalem, you can't really understand how it felt. I guess your argument is that since the Church is wealthy it can't preach for greater social equality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I guess your argument is that since the Church is wealthy it can't preach for greater social equality? Isn't that what tom said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 Isn't that what tom said? Always Tom! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 "Pope Francis did not ask nations to "redistribute wealth". He asked them to create opportunity for all, avoiding "economic policies of exclusion". This, he says, requires "legitimate redistribution of economic benefits", meaning, specifically avoiding all "injustices" (corruption, for example, "policies of exclusion", and a "throwaway culture" which amounts to a "culture of death". A modern pope gets old school on the Devil Washington Post, by Anthony Faiola Original Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 "Pope Francis did not ask nations to "redistribute wealth". He asked them to create opportunity for all, avoiding "economic policies of exclusion". This, he says, requires "legitimate redistribution of economic benefits", meaning, specifically avoiding all "injustices" (corruption, for example, "policies of exclusion", and a "throwaway culture" which amounts to a "culture of death". A modern pope gets old school on the Devil Washington Post, by Anthony Faiola Original Article "the legitimate redistribution of economic benefits by the state..." is what he said. i have no idea where you quotes come from but they're not from the article you linked. this pope speaks very plainly. it takes real and largely unsatisfying effort by those attempting to parse his words into something other than what he clearly means. i doubt you're fooling anyone but yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 "the legitimate redistribution of economic benefits by the state..." is what he said. i have no idea where you quotes come from but they're not from the article you linked. this pope speaks very plainly. it takes real and largely unsatisfying effort by those attempting to parse his words into something other than what he clearly means. i doubt you're fooling anyone but yourself. The Pope is talking about doing away with neo-mercantilism/corporatism and central banking, which serve to concentrate wealth and unnaturally centralize capital formation; and to move towards a climate of economic freedom, in which all can participate. He's spoken about this many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The Pope is talking about doing away with neo-mercantilism/corporatism and central banking, which serve to concentrate wealth and unnaturally centralize capital formation; and to move towards a climate of economic freedom, in which all can participate. He's spoken about this many times. yes, he has. never more clearly than this time. it seems your memory needs refreshing: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/pope-francis-denounces-trickle-down-economic-theories-in-critique-of-inequality/2013/11/26/e17ffe4e-56b6-11e3-8304-caf30787c0a9_story.html. his thoughts are obviously widely more encompassing of actual redistribution than some narrow policy changes. if not, then why were your right wing extremist propagandist mouthpieces like limpaugh so outraged? did they misinterpret his meaning as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 yes, he has. never more clearly than this time. it seems your memory needs refreshing: http://www.washingto...c0a9_story.html. his thoughts are obviously widely more encompassing of actual redistribution than some narrow policy changes. if not, then why were your right wing extremist propagandist mouthpieces like limpaugh so outraged? did they misinterpret his meaning as well? Why do you always bring up Limbaugh. Do you hear anyone here bringing up Chris Matthews/Schultz etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Why do you always bring up Limbaugh. Do you hear anyone here bringing up Chris Matthews/Schultz etc? because he has a huge, loyal, near fanatical audience including some that post here. schultz and matthews not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 because he has a huge, loyal, near fanatical audience including some that post here. schultz and matthews not so much. Funny, conner and gator sound like carbon copies of them but i never bring them up because i assume their retarded opinions are their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 yes, he has. never more clearly than this time. it seems your memory needs refreshing: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/pope-francis-denounces-trickle-down-economic-theories-in-critique-of-inequality/2013/11/26/e17ffe4e-56b6-11e3-8304-caf30787c0a9_story.html. his thoughts are obviously widely more encompassing of actual redistribution than some narrow policy changes. if not, then why were your right wing extremist propagandist mouthpieces like limpaugh so outraged? did they misinterpret his meaning as well? Mmhmmm... You can't discern between my posting history and the radio stylings of Rush Limbaugh? I should be paid a lot more. Also, you've disqualified your opionions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The entrance to heaven should be redistributed to those that haven't earned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 because he has a huge, loyal, near fanatical audience including some that post here. schultz and matthews not so much. Nobody here is quoting Limbaugh because they don't need his opinions to back up their assertions. Nobody here is backing up Schultz or Mathews because, well who would? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 no one answered the question. were limbaugh's interpretations of the pope's statements incorrect? if so, why? and what qualifies him to give opinions on advanced, intellectual economic concepts when many here feel the pope and even a nobel prize winner in the field are unqualified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 no one answered the question. were limbaugh's interpretations of the pope's statements incorrect? if so, why? and what qualifies him to give opinions on advanced, intellectual economic concepts when many here feel the pope and even a nobel prize winner in the field are unqualified? I still don't even know what Limbaugh said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/09/rush-limbaugh-pope-francis-trying-to-convince-un-to-impose-marxism-socialism-on-world/. most recently. he said much the same after the encyclical came out. i think it's linked upthread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 http://www.rawstory....alism-on-world/. most recently. he said much the same after the encyclical came out. i think it's linked upthread. Well based on the first sentence alone, I'd say he's an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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