Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the

[OCinBuffalo]

wow. just wow.to simplify, how bout looking at the secular component of the pope's message (yes, i know, theology is integral to his message but it's possible to distill it as he did to a degree when answering his atheist questioner). without the theology, his message in essence is that people should work at being good. defining good is relatively easy for some things: eg a good knife is one thast cuts well, stays sharp and is maneuverable. a good person? i think it's clear from his writing that he sees the ideal more closely represented by mother theresa than jamie dimon. and i think he's correct. the world would be a much better place with more people striving for that ideal. it's really pretty simple. you may not agree but it's a straightforward message.

"Working at being good"

 

has literally nothing in common with "give your money to the government so they can(supposedly) do good works".

 

Working at being good requires: an individual to expend more effort than writing a check/flashing the credit card. It requires commitment, and often: sacrifice. It requires individual time spent both in thinking about the best way to apply oneself, in addition to actually doing the good and/or spending the $ on the good.

 

Real charity, done by real philanthropists(like Ralph Wilson) is rarely discussed nearly to the point of being anonymous. That's how "the rich" work at being good.

 

You don't know Jamie Dimon, or whether he works to be good, or not.

 

But, because you are a liberal, you think you do. Thus, it's not immoral to cast an aspersion on somebody else, who you don't even know, as long as it fits with your worldview.

 

I have a suggestion birdog: how's about you "work at being good" and stop talking schit about people you don't know, and stop pretending that you can read their minds. You want to talk about what somebody did/didn't do, that's one thing. But "knowing" that a guy never works to be good, because he runs and investment bank? WTF?

 

If you consider yourself in position to judge Jamie Dimon, without ever bothering to learn about the guy?

 

Then clearly all Catholic teaching has been lost on you.

[birdog1960]

"Working at being good"

 

has literally nothing in common with "give your money to the government so they can(supposedly) do good works".

 

Working at being good requires: an individual to expend more effort than writing a check/flashing the credit card. It requires commitment, and often: sacrifice. It requires individual time spent both in thinking about the best way to apply oneself, in addition to actually doing the good and/or spending the $ on the good.

 

Real charity, done by real philanthropists(like Ralph Wilson) is rarely discussed nearly to the point of being anonymous. That's how "the rich" work at being good.

 

You don't know Jamie Dimon, or whether he works to be good, or not.

 

But, because you are a liberal, you think you do. Thus, it's not immoral to cast an aspersion on somebody else, who you don't even know, as long as it fits with your worldview.

 

I have a suggestion birdog: how's about you "work at being good" and stop talking schit about people you don't know, and stop pretending that you can read their minds. You want to talk about what somebody did/didn't do, that's one thing. But "knowing" that a guy never works to be good, because he runs and investment bank? WTF?

 

If you consider yourself in position to judge Jamie Dimon, without ever bothering to learn about the guy?

 

Then clearly all Catholic teaching has been lost on you.

seem to remember something about the widow's mite...

[TakeYouToTasker]

seem to remember something about the widow's mite...

No, actually you don't seem to remember that at all.

[OCinBuffalo]

seem to remember something about the widow's mite...

Oh you want to do proportions?

 

Joe Biden gave to $500 to charity last year. What's that in proportion to his overall salary? What's idiot Joe's mite worth?

In fact, you can do the same thing with every single Democrat, and compare their proportions to Republicans.

 

But, this isn't the point I made at all.

 

 

Apparently you need more, so here it is...more:

 

We need to begin with REAL compassion, which is not "write a check to the government so that we don't have to get our hands dirty". It begins with understanding that "God helps those who help themselves". He really does.

 

When you see a kid who has worked(and you've helped) very hard, on hitting a curveball, actually hit one, you suddenly see "that help themselves" as a very profound statement. It opens your eyes, and you gain a new humility immediately.

 

Doubly so when hits that ball while getting all Bs or above, because baseball is a privilege, and "privileges cost". That's what the coach tells the 11(this time) single mothers, married mothers too, on the team the first day. Yes, they are all "on the team", to include helping their teammates by: driving car pool, cleaning uniforms, having kids over for "studyhall" when one of their teammates has to work, whatever the team requires. "This is no babysitting service".

 

Um, why do I end up with 11 out of 15 single moms? Because many begin with the notion that it is, and, I disabuse them of that Day 1. It's the only compassionate thing to do. They are mothers, this is good for their kids, and not intended to be good for them, in terms of getting 2-3 free hours off. That's why baseball is a privilege they must "pay" for as well, hence the grades thing is not only about the kids. Of course I find myself doing all sorts of coaching, and much of it is listening to "my ex" stories. I seem to get results there too.

 

But, for any of this to happen, you actually have to have put in the time, day by day, by first getting the kid to see the spin of the ball, and therefore recognize that no, it isn't going to hit him in the head. Then, we move on to staying back, bat speed through the zone, etc. You actually have to be personally involved, every day. The kid hits the curve, and the mom thinks maybe I'm right about taking that computer class.

 

I can't get the same results by writing a check, or paying more taxes.

 

I wonder: what's the baseball coach's, who doesn't have any kids on the team, mite...worth?

 

Would I be better at any of this if I was "subsidized" by the government? Would this work better if I made all the kids/moms on the team stand in line at my office, waiting for their "free government baseball education".

 

You can just...hear it : "Well, the rich can afford to get private coaches for their kids, so those kids have a leg up when it comes time for JV tryouts". Right. Apparently there's no way I can compete with these private coaches.

 

My record and more than a few of my kids playing at the next level, and even higher, say you lose. Private coach? Nope. Just a dumbass volunteer who needs to work on his swearing.

[Tiberius]

 

Ot "God helps those who help themselves". He really does.

 

 

 

The Pope seems to disagree with you on how far this goes. He's saying people need help,too and governments should be doing more.

[B-Man]

From an interview with Pope Francis:

“Marxist ideology is wrong.

But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended.” But, he points out, “there is nothing in the Exhortation that cannot be found in the social Doctrine of the Church.”

 

 

And he discusses the point of everything he is and does: The Incarnation! “Christmas is hope and tenderness,” he tells La Stampa.

“

Christmas is God’s meeting with his people. It is also a consolation, a mystery of consolation,

” Francis explains. “

After the midnight mass I have often spent an hour or so alone in the chapel before celebrating the dawn mass. I felt a profound feeling of consolation and peace.” “On Christmas eve, my thoughts are above all with the Christians who live there, with those who are in difficulty, with the many people who have had to leave that land because of various problems

,” the Pope adds, referring to the Holy Land.

 

.

 

.

Edited December 15, 2013 by B-Man

[Keukasmallies]

Crap, I thought this was another Obama thread.

[Koko78]

Crap, I thought this was another Obama thread.

 

I don't see why. The thread isn't titled "Chosen One of Rome, Replacement for Jesus Christ, Prince of all he Surveys".

[Nanker]

The Pope seems to disagree with you on how far this goes. He's saying people need help,too and governments should be doing more.

So now you're a Papist who believes that abortion, birth control are morally wrong, that Jesus Christ is the literal son of God, that the holy trinity of God the Father, Jesus his only begotten son, and the Holy Ghost are real, that the Pope is infallible, that the Crusades were just, the Jews killed Christ, etc. Or do you just cherry pick your points of agreement like birdbrain?

[Tiberius]

 

So now you're a Papist who believes that abortion, birth control are morally wrong, that Jesus Christ is the literal son of God, that the holy trinity of God the Father, Jesus his only begotten son, and the Holy Ghost are real, that the Pope is infallible, that the Crusades were just, the Jews killed Christ, etc. Or do you just cherry pick your points of agreement like birdbrain?

 

No stupid, actually I was saying the Pope disagrees with him.

 

From an interview with Pope Francis:

“Marxist ideology is wrong.

But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended.” But, he points out, “there is nothing in the Exhortation that cannot be found in the social Doctrine of the Church.”

 

.

 

.

 

He was replying to the "Ultraconservatives in the United States" who freaked out over his just criticism of trickle down economics

[birdog1960]

So now you're a Papist who believes that abortion, birth control are morally wrong, that Jesus Christ is the literal son of God, that the holy trinity of God the Father, Jesus his only begotten son, and the Holy Ghost are real, that the Pope is infallible, that the Crusades were just, the Jews killed Christ, etc. Or do you just cherry pick your points of agreement like birdbrain?

really? so you're asserting that one must agree that the crusades were just, to also believe in the holy trinity? you might want to read up on papal infallibility, too. what you imagine it means, probably isn't what it, in fact, means. there's that whole ex cathedra thing. i believe that the past failings of the church are due to human error and misinterpretation. that doesn't lessen the divine design. we've just gotten it wrong, sometimes and so have other religions. i think Francis is getting a whole lot more right than wrong.

[birdog1960]

From an interview with Pope Francis:

“Marxist ideology is wrong.

But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended.” But, he points out, “there is nothing in the Exhortation that cannot be found in the social Doctrine of the Church.”

 

 

And he discusses the point of everything he is and does: The Incarnation! “Christmas is hope and tenderness,” he tells La Stampa.

 

“

Christmas is God’s meeting with his people. It is also a consolation, a mystery of consolation,

” Francis explains. “

After the midnight mass I have often spent an hour or so alone in the chapel before celebrating the dawn mass. I felt a profound feeling of consolation and peace.” “On Christmas eve, my thoughts are above all with the Christians who live there, with those who are in difficulty, with the many people who have had to leave that land because of various problems

,” the Pope adds, referring to the Holy Land.

 

.

 

.

so i guess limbaugh was wrong, eh? think he'll make a retraction or apologize?

 

not bloody likely. the pope again rejects the idea of trickle down economics giving an apt metaphor of a wine glass that is supposed to overflow to the poor but instead magically gets bigger. it was limbaugh that likened this to marxism, not Francis. the statement is what it is and what it is, people like limbaugh and those who espouse trickle down economics, don't like.

[IDBillzFan]

so i guess limbaugh was wrong, eh? think he'll make a retraction or apologize?

 

not bloody likely. the pope again rejects the idea of trickle down economics giving an apt metaphor of a wine glass that is supposed to overflow to the poor but instead magically gets bigger. it was limbaugh that likened this to marxism, not Francis. the statement is what it is and what it is, people like limbaugh and those who espouse trickle down economics, don't like.

 

I'll never understand how progressives can spend hours and days barking about the stupid comments of a radio voice, and spend the rest of their time defending all the stupid comments, lies and actions from the leader of the free world they helped put in office.

[birdog1960]

I'll never understand how progressives can spend hours and days barking about the stupid comments of a radio voice, and spend the rest of their time defending all the stupid comments, lies and actions from the leader of the free world they helped put in office.

maybe because sheeple (they even have a nickname for limbaugh acolytes, right?) here in the US of A have elevated this blow hard to a status where his comments are quoted to the pope. has obama disappointed me? yes, certainly re the aca rollout. i really haven't had problems with much else. there's really not much opportunity to accomplish much when you have a sizable majority of the house willing to go as far as shut down the gov't over an unwinnable battle.

[3rdnlng]

maybe because sheeple (they even have a nickname for limbaugh acolytes, right?) here in the US of A have elevated this blow hard to a status where his comments are quoted to the pope. has obama disappointed me? yes, certainly re the aca rollout. i really haven't had problems with much else. there's really not much opportunity to accomplish much when you have a sizable majority of the house willing to go as far as shut down the gov't over an unwinnable battle.

 

Are you satisfied with the answers from Fast and Furious? Benghazi? NSA spying? DOJ tapping reporters' phones? What do you think about Obama's blatant lying about keeping your health care plan or doctor?

[Koko78]

Are you satisfied with the answers from Fast and Furious? Benghazi? NSA spying? DOJ tapping reporters' phones? What do you think about Obama's blatant lying about keeping your health care plan or doctor?

 

Those don't matter, he doesn't have a weekday radio show.

[birdog1960]

Are you satisfied with the answers from Fast and Furious? Benghazi? NSA spying? DOJ tapping reporters' phones? What do you think about Obama's blatant lying about keeping your health care plan or doctor?

perhaps you can obfuscate the actual issue of this thread, the popes economic stance, into oblivion. that appears to be some cons goal. maybe we can discuss whether santa and Jesus is/was white.

[Nanker]

[IDBillzFan]

there's really not much opportunity to accomplish much when you have a sizable majority of the house willing to go as far as shut down the gov't over an unwinnable battle.

 

Oh, please. You say this like no president could get something done while having a filibuster-proof majority in the senate and slightly less than half the congress.

 

A leader gets things done. A progressive complains that work is hard.

[B-Man]

While Jesus repeatedly preached against the love of riches, he was urging people to respond to a call to God and to become “rich to God.” It was not an appeal for people to resent the riches of others and obsess about material inequality.

Jesus, when asked to remedy inequality, turned the focus back on envy and greed.

 

“Someone in the crowd said to him, ‘Teacher, tell my brother to share the inheritance with me.’ He replied to him, ‘Friend, who appointed me as your judge and arbitrator?’ Then he said to the crowd, ‘Take care to guard against all greed, for though one may be rich, one’s life does not consist of possessions.’” (Luke 12:13-15)

 

I am all for reducing poverty... What I’m against is talking about “inequality” as if that term denoted any of those concerns. Poverty matters; injustice matters. Mere inequality is beside the point.

 

 

 

Mere inequality is beside the point.

 

 

 

.

Edited December 16, 2013 by B-Man