Why isn't anyone talking about Stevie?

[3rdand12]

Nadir ?

dont trade stevie. surround him with better receivers and let the QB situation settle down.

I am glad Stevie is taking a week off.

[T master]

I am not a guy who thinks we should just trade good players, but I am coming around to the thinking that we should seriously consider moving Stevie. The guy is hurt every week. How many games has he left now? The wind blows by him and he gets a spasm.

 

I like Stevie, and he runs good routes. However, Woods can already do what Stevie does and can be everything Stevie can be with better hands. Goodwin is too good not to get on the field more too and can stretch the field opposite Woods. We have youth at WR and talent there beyond just Stevie.

 

He frequently comes up small in big situations and is always leaving games hurt. Would rather trade him for a 3rd, and use our first few rounds of picks targeting OL, physical WR, and dynamic TE.

 

He is in no way the reason for our woes, but I just can't see having a #1 WR anymore who isn't physical, has inconsistent hands, disappears in big moments or flat our drops the passes, and can't stay on the field.

 

Since they put Stevie in the slot his production has went down i think he needs to be out side again if it aint broke don't fix it !!

 

3 Consecutive seasons over 1K yds & Oh i think we will change Stevies position, another college type coaching decision, that & all the decisions surrounding the QB & getting rid of other coaches & players just to say he has his coaches just never proved to be the best coaching move we could have made !!

 

We need to draft another QB because if for nothing else the talent level this year is way above average & any smart team would do that , a above average TE prospect & a LB should be our priorities !!

 

Plus if we are going to trade away players trade the older ones Kyle Williams is a great player but his health is always suspect trade him to a winner b/c he deserves it & bring Carrington back next year but Stevie is still young ...

Edited November 16, 2013 by T master

[BADOLBILZ]

> The QB(s) are all less accurate than Fitzpatrick.

 

After the 2002 season, TD was able to trade away Peerless Price for a first round pick. A lot of that was because Drew Bledsoe's excellent play--especially during the first eight games of 2002--caused teams to regard Price in the best possible light. His trade value was at its zenith.

 

Compare that to Stevie Johnson. Is Johnson a better football player than Price? Absolutely. But between his injury and the fact that the Bills' QB play has been significantly worse this year than last year, Johnson's trade value may be at its nadir.

 

Assuming the goal is to trade Johnson--which I'm not convinced it should be--it might be better to wait a year. If the Bills experience significantly improved QB play in 2014, and if Johnson is injury-free for the 2014 season, it might be possible to get a draft pick significantly higher than what we could get for him now.

 

What you neglect to mention is that the Bills offense went to hell in a hurry without Price.

 

I am not a Stevie fan. He is a drama queen who craves attention, but when he gets it the pressure of the moment has been too much for him. He is a significantly worse player in big situations than in less meaningful ones.

 

He also simply does not work hard enough on his conditioning.........a fact he has admitted.....and that has likely been the reason for his constant, CONSTANT problems with soft tissue injuries.

 

That all being said.......the team just can't afford to give away talent. Stevie is the only proven capable receiver on the roster. No matter what people project from Woods and Goodwin neither has been consistent and both have missed games due to injury. Graham may have a future but he was at best a late draftable prospect/UDFA type and he is far from ready for primetime.

 

I don't think our receiving corps is bad...we won't know what we have until a good NFL QB is throwing them the ball......but this organization can't afford to trade proven talent with a 15th consecutive missed playoff season on the line next year.

[Orton's Arm]

 

 

What you neglect to mention is that the Bills offense went to hell in a hurry without Price.

 

I am not a Stevie fan. He is a drama queen who craves attention, but when he gets it the pressure of the moment has been too much for him. He is a significantly worse player in big situations than in less meaningful ones.

 

He also simply does not work hard enough on his conditioning.........a fact he has admitted.....and that has likely been the reason for his constant, CONSTANT problems with soft tissue injuries.

 

That all being said.......the team just can't afford to give away talent. Stevie is the only proven capable receiver on the roster. No matter what people project from Woods and Goodwin neither has been consistent and both have missed games due to injury. Graham may have a future but he was at best a late draftable prospect/UDFA type and he is far from ready for primetime.

 

I don't think our receiving corps is bad...we won't know what we have until a good NFL QB is throwing them the ball......but this organization can't afford to trade proven talent with a 15th consecutive missed playoff season on the line next year.

 

> What you neglect to mention is that the Bills offense went to hell in a hurry without Price.

 

Part of that was due to problems with the offensive line. Part of that was that Bill Belichick revealed the blueprint for defeating Drew Bledsoe. (Send pressure up the middle.) But part of it was that after Peerless left, the Bills had no deep threat. Granted, I'm not sure how much good a deep threat would have done them anyway, given their lack of blitz pickup and Bledsoe's lack of sack avoidance technique. But all else being equal, an offense with a deep threat has more options than one without.

 

> That all being said.......the team just can't afford to give away talent.

 

Agreed. I could see two possible arguments for trading him away:

1) If the price was right

2) The argument that the Bills probably won't have their QB of the future on the roster until next season at the earliest. The logic here is that the QB won't really hit his stride until year two or three of his career; by which point most of Stevie's good years will be behind him.

[26CornerBlitz]

‏@JohnMurphyShow

Complete audio: Stevie Johnson Says Bills Are "Stacked" http://ow.ly/2BDfTJ

[PO'14]

They are stacked which means we can let him go!

[mattsox]

I am not a guy who thinks we should just trade good players, but I am coming around to the thinking that we should seriously consider moving Stevie. The guy is hurt every week. How many games has he left now? The wind blows by him and he gets a spasm.

 

I like Stevie, and he runs good routes. However, Woods can already do what Stevie does and can be everything Stevie can be with better hands. Goodwin is too good not to get on the field more too and can stretch the field opposite Woods. We have youth at WR and talent there beyond just Stevie.

 

He frequently comes up small in big situations and is always leaving games hurt. Would rather trade him for a 3rd, and use our first few rounds of picks targeting OL, physical WR, and dynamic TE.

 

He is in no way the reason for our woes, but I just can't see having a #1 WR anymore who isn't physical, has inconsistent hands, disappears in big moments or flat our drops the passes, and can't stay on the field.

 

The guy's hurt. Leave it at that. I don't know why everyone is coming down on him. EJ was hurt too. Should we trade him or make him the #2 QB???

Edited November 21, 2013 by mattsox

[playman]

only saw him once in college so have no real opinion of him but he's tall and on the PS so ...

 

 

 

I like our WRs for the most part I just think they were out of sink with EJ (of course its hard to jump 20 ft in the air) but we could use some taller ones

 

and can we PLEASE GET A FRIGGIN PASS CATCHING TE

 

 

this

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The guy's hurt. Leave it at that. I don't know why everyone is coming down on him. EJ was hurt too. Should we trade him or make him the #2 QB???

 

Well, I have heard that viewpoint expressed

 

SJ is a good WR. He was highly successful in Gailey's Erhard-Perkins "run to the spot" offense with a gunslinger QB throwing to him. Now Stevie's being asked to run routes in a WC offense based upon precise route running and highly-coordinated timing between the WR and QB. He's got a bit of a learning curve and his injuries (and EJ's) haven't helped them get on the same page. Hopefully they will soon because we need them both to succeed. IMHO Fitz also swallowed the blame for every throw that was off-target to the point where SJ doesn't seem to think he needs to come back for the ball or be able to adapt to throws that aren't quite where he expects them. I heard a bit too much of "well technically that was a drop 'cuz it hit my hands but really it was miscommunication" "that wasn't as easy as it looked" etc etc. You're a WR, Stevie. If it hits you in the hands or it's within reasonable reach of your arms, you're paid to catch it.

 

If I'm correct, and I could be wrong, hopefully that will be coached away also.

 

And yeah, people should lay off the guy. He's played hard, he's played hurt, he's been a good soldier, and he doesn't deserve the criticism.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Hopeful

[BADOLBILZ]

> What you neglect to mention is that the Bills offense went to hell in a hurry without Price.

 

Part of that was due to problems with the offensive line. Part of that was that Bill Belichick revealed the blueprint for defeating Drew Bledsoe. (Send pressure up the middle.) But part of it was that after Peerless left, the Bills had no deep threat. Granted, I'm not sure how much good a deep threat would have done them anyway, given their lack of blitz pickup and Bledsoe's lack of sack avoidance technique. But all else being equal, an offense with a deep threat has more options than one without.

 

> That all being said.......the team just can't afford to give away talent.

 

Agreed. I could see two possible arguments for trading him away:

1) If the price was right

2) The argument that the Bills probably won't have their QB of the future on the roster until next season at the earliest. The logic here is that the QB won't really hit his stride until year two or three of his career; by which point most of Stevie's good years will be behind him.

 

They lost Price, Centers and Riemersma all in the same offseason. Josh Reed simultaneously went from a sticky fingered sensation to a ball dropper overnight and Moulds got injured. Bledsoe was a statue and needed weapons and he went from having a wealth of them to almost none by midseason. Bobby Shaw, Sam Gash and Mark Campbell were very poor replacements for Price, Centers and Riemersma.

[thebandit27]

Yes, by all means let's jettison the only consistently productive member of the passing game the past 3 years.

 

Wow...

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

What you neglect to mention is that the Bills offense went to hell in a hurry without Price.

 

I am not a Stevie fan. He is a drama queen who craves attention, but when he gets it the pressure of the moment has been too much for him. He is a significantly worse player in big situations than in less meaningful ones.

 

He also simply does not work hard enough on his conditioning.........a fact he has admitted.....and that has likely been the reason for his constant, CONSTANT problems with soft tissue injuries.

 

That all being said.......the team just can't afford to give away talent. Stevie is the only proven capable receiver on the roster. No matter what people project from Woods and Goodwin neither has been consistent and both have missed games due to injury. Graham may have a future but he was at best a late draftable prospect/UDFA type and he is far from ready for primetime.

 

I don't think our receiving corps is bad...we won't know what we have until a good NFL QB is throwing them the ball......but this organization can't afford to trade proven talent with a 15th consecutive missed playoff season on the line next year.

 

What do you think of Kevin Norwood from Bama?

 

I view him as sort of a hybrid of SJ and Woods. Because the Tide has Amari Cooper, Yeldon, Drake, and that freshman TE Howard, Norwood gets less chances, but I think he will make noise in this league.

What I like about SJ is his ability to get open, but I agree that his body could conceivably be pretty much shot. I also concur that trading him for what little we could get in return (considering his age and contract) would be a dumb move.

[Kemp2Warlick]

NFL Network ‏@nflnetwork12m

Champ Kind (@davidkoechner) auditions at NFL Network... and interviews @StevieJohnson13?! MUST-SEE: http://on.nfl.com/18uSKBQ #WHAAMMMMY

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Yes, by all means let's jettison the only consistently productive member of the passing game the past 3 years.

 

Wow...

 

Oh, but don't you know? We have tj graham ready to step in and take his place! Now that graham had the only halfway decent gmae of his career, Stevie is expendable.

[thebandit27]

 

 

Oh, but don't you know? We have tj graham ready to step in and take his place! Now that graham had the only halfway decent gmae of his career, Stevie is expendable.

 

Of course, of course!

 

Why bother with the idea that we could go the rest of the way playing Stevie in the slot with Woods and Goodwin on the outside? And heaven forbid we add a legitimate threat at TE in the offseason to add to them.

 

Then we might have a fully formidable attack.

Edited November 23, 2013 by thebandit27

[Maury Ballstein]

Stevie rules keep him as long as possible.

[BillsBytheBay]

stevie is just an average receiver nothing more, nothing less.

have you ever even seen him play? Maybe against Revis, or Sherman? How many guys in the NFL now have 3 consecutive years at 1000+ yards? Edited November 23, 2013 by JaxBills

[LB3]

 

 

But the bottom line is simple...this is a guy who frequently leaves games early and seem to have chronic groin and hamstring injuries. This is also a guy who has frequently come up short in critical moments. This is also a guy who VANISHES regularly in games when the game matters. He has easily been taken out of many games. People sight literally one game where he had a strong outing on Revis, a game he dropped the most important catch that led to our loss late in the game, and now act like he owned him his whole career which is simply not true.

 

 

You say everyone cites one game against Revis, while mentioning that he dropped the most important catch of the game. They aren't referring to one game. Stevie has squared off against Revis 3 times and he's done better against Revis than most of the other dominant receivers. His numbers:

 

3 rec, 83 yards

8 rec, 75 yards, 1 td

4 rec, 55 yards, 1 td

 

Now these aren't incredible but when you look at how other dominant receivers have done, it is fair to say Stevie has been one of the most successful.

 

It seems like you are doing the exact same thing you are criticizing others for. You say he vanishes in critical moments and drops key passes regularly. For arguments sake, other than the one drop in the Jets game you mentioned and the obvious Pittsburgh drop, what other critical drops has he had? None specifically come to mind for me.

[Dibs]

have you ever even seen him play? Maybe against Revis, or Sherman? How many guys in the NFL now have 3 consecutive years at 1000+ yards?

 

Of WRs......not that many considering there are 32 NFL teams:

(Current NFL players.....I may have missed one or two)

 

Stevie Johnson 2010-2012

Brandon Marshall 2007-2012 (6 in a row, with 828 already this season)

Marques Colston 2009-2012 (4 in a row, would have been 7 except was injured in 2008)

Calvin Johnson: 2010-2013 (4 in a row)

A.J. Green 2011-2013

 

Vincent Jackson 2008-2009 & 2011-2012 (injured in 2010 with 827 already this season)

Wes Welker 2007-2009 & 2011-2012 (on pace for 1000 in 2013)

Victor Cruz 2011-2012 (with 824 already this season)

 

Reggie Wayne 2004-2010, 2012 (2011 was only 960)

Larry Fitzgerald 2007-2011

Andre Johnson 2008-2010

Steve Smith 2005-2008

Greg Jennings 2008-2010

Edited November 23, 2013 by Dibs

[SoulMan]

Trade SJ. Sign Wood & Byrd.

Edited November 23, 2013 by SoulMan