Why isn't anyone talking about Stevie?

[Fan in Chicago]

Stevie is what he is. It's not like he hasn't been a prominent player for the Bills for 4 years and had a number of critical mistakes/failures to come thru in the clutch.

 

He is a quality player for the vast majority of the game but he is the opposite of clutch.

 

Nothing changed for me today. I cursed and rolled my eyes like everyone else when he fumbled the ball in the clutch after playing a very solid game to that point but I was not surprised.

 

If you were surprised you either don't follow the team closely or you just can't be objective about the player. That game effectively ended the competitive portion of the Bills season and isn't going to do anything to break down that mental barrier he has in the clutch. Very disappointing year for Stevie.

 

In the offseason, I came to grips with what was an emerging trend - immature Stevie spouting his mouth off and making juvenile 'LAMP' antics. On the field, great route runner with the ability to out-move the best of CBs. But very much a toss up in the clutch. This season, his antics have been minimal but his performance is disappointing.

 

Any team will have its ups and downs throughout the game. The Bills are fielding a rookie QB (who contrary to your opinion, I feel has been learning adequately throughout the season) and 2 rookie WRs. There will be lows (like a very cold 3rd Q on O yesterday) but it was telling that we were within a field goal of winning the game. Our #1 WR has to make the catch and keep possession and yet SJ came up very small. I am tired of his personality and his shaking off of accountability. I would not be surprised or disappointed if he is shopped around in the off-season and the Bills decide to make a major push to upgrade the TE position and get a physical WR to complement Woods and Goodwin.

 

I know it is not a popular opinion, but I wont miss SJ much if he is gone. He has been limited in his effectiveness this year (ability, effort, injuries) and is not the kind of #1 WR we need.

[Coach Tuesday]

As I recall, this is the 3rd critical error Stevie has made to lose us a game (falcons fumble, steelers drop of GW, jets drop of GW in 2011). He made one GW TD catch against Carolina. I don't think he has any others.

 

Not a great track record in the clutch.

 

Don't forget the home opener this year against New England. He catches that easy third down pass at the end and they likely win the game.

[BADOLBILZ]

I'm of two minds about it. I think everyone wants him to own up to it (and rightly so) but football players do have to turn the page and move on to the next opponent, even if that means facing another week where there is probably little to play for.

 

That said, I want this team to believe it can go 8-8 and give it everything they've got.

 

The rest of this season is about seeing if this team still buys into Marrone, if he can keep them on an even keel, and if EJ can develop some more.

 

Nobody has a lockdown on their roster spot, and they should be gently reminded of that fact based on how they play from here on out.

 

I agree with you completely.

 

It's just not the player who made the mistake's place to tell the fans to get over it.

[BADOLBILZ]

That's not how I saw it. I saw it as two plays made by defenders who knew they needed to cause a turnover or else lose the game. They made the plays that had to be made.

 

The Falcons were lucky that the Bills players minds were not thinking about ball security in those crucial moments. I wonder if after the Stevie fumble, did Hackett or Marrone go to his playmakers and remind them that ball security is of upmost importance at this point? I am guessing neither of them did. Yes these players should automatically know that, but it is easy to forget about ball security when you are trying to make a play on offense. Would that have made the difference with Chandler? Maybe, maybe not.

 

But then after it happens and the Falcons get the ball back, why isn't our defense out there holding up the ball runner while other guys try to strip the ball? The Bills looked like they were playing normal defense to me with zero emphasis on creating that possible game winning turnover.

 

I thought that both times it looked like the Falcons defenders were obviously going for the strip. And it worked. Hats off to them. Neither Stevie nor Chandler are habitual fumblers. I think in both situations they just got outplayed by a mindful defender who wanted the ball at least as badly as he wanted the tackle.

 

The Bills are so far removed from being a winning organization that some of the guys just don't how to conduct themselves in a big situations.

 

When the situation was reversed.......back when the Bills had dominant teams.......we used to see opposing teams get themselves beat by the Bills like this on the regular. Even often on days when the Bills barely even showed up.

 

That is why it was so important for Marrone to change the culture here. Hasn't happened. It's hard to do when your veterans panic in the clutch. Stevie panics in the clutch. He forgets how to be the player he usually is when high pressure isn't involved.

 

You can credit a player for knocking the ball out, but with proper ball security fumbles don't happen. High and tight. That should go double in clutch situations because desperation can cause the opponent to make extraordinary effort to stop you. When you are used to playing in critical situations.....and let's face it.....if you are an elite team every week is a freakin dogfiight in the NFL......you know what to expect. For Stevie, that didn't click.

[Coach Tuesday]

The Bills are so far removed from being a winning organization that some of the guys just don't how to conduct themselves in a big situations.

 

When the situation was reversed.......back when the Bills had dominant teams.......we used to see opposing teams get themselves beat by the Bills like this on the regular. Even often on days when the Bills barely even showed up.

 

That is why it was so important for Marrone to change the culture here. Hasn't happened. It's hard to do when your veterans panic in the clutch. Stevie panics in the clutch. He forgets how to be the player he usually is when high pressure isn't involved.

 

You can credit a player for knocking the ball out, but with proper ball security fumbles don't happen. High and tight. That should go double in clutch situations because desperation can cause the opponent to make extraordinary effort to stop you. When you are used to playing in critical situations.....and let's face it.....if you are an elite team every week is a freakin dogfiight in the NFL......you know what to expect. For Stevie, that didn't click.

 

But there is some elasticity to what you're saying, because being mentally "clutch" as a player and as a team can be worked on. Did you see Steven Ridley in yesterday's Patriots game? He was in his street clothes, on the sidelines, holding a football. He'll get another chance to prove that he has learned his lesson, and if he fails it, I have zero doubt they'll simply release him. He was their starting RB two weeks ago. That's how winning organizations deal with these types of things. Marrone talks a lot about "accountability" - now's his chance to cut Bobby Shaw. (I am not saying Stevie should be cut - but he damn well ought to be benched.) Stevie may never learn his lesson - he may be incapable. But taking action against that type of idiocy will at the very least teach others on the team what it takes to be a winner.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Coach Tuesday

[Mango]

I think it is worth noting that the Bills haven't posted Stevie's presser. He has drawn just as much anger from fans about the fumble as his reaction to it. The fact that they haven't posted the reaction themselves, points to them being unhappy with it.

[NoSaint]

so, ive wondered, and i know now is likely a terrible time to ask --- stevie went the JUCO route out of high school before going to kentucky. he had a decent resume, was it academics? or that his resume was short, having only played 2 years in HS and he didnt see the offers he expected?

[Jerry Jabber]

I am not a guy who thinks we should just trade good players, but I am coming around to the thinking that we should seriously consider moving Stevie. The guy is hurt every week. How many games has he left now? The wind blows by him and he gets a spasm.

 

I like Stevie, and he runs good routes. However, Woods can already do what Stevie does and can be everything Stevie can be with better hands. Goodwin is too good not to get on the field more too and can stretch the field opposite Woods. We have youth at WR and talent there beyond just Stevie.

 

He frequently comes up small in big situations and is always leaving games hurt. Would rather trade him for a 3rd, and use our first few rounds of picks targeting OL, physical WR, and dynamic TE.

 

He is in no way the reason for our woes, but I just can't see having a #1 WR anymore who isn't physical, has inconsistent hands, disappears in big moments or flat our drops the passes, and can't stay on the field.

 

Before I would have disagreed with you, but after yesterday's showing and thinking about SJ's career so far in Buffalo, I completely agree with your assessment.

 

Stevie's track record says it all:

Dropped a TD pass against the Steelers in OT

Dropped a pass which could have lead to a TD against the Jets (during the Gailey era)

Flagged for unsportsman like conduct for numerous occasions for excessive TD celebrations

Had the ball popped out with less than a 1 minute to go in the game (yesterday)

 

SJ is no Andre Reed and cannot be counted on when the game is on the line as he has failed many more times than he has succeeded in clutch situations. I like SJ and feel he is a good slot WR, but not a #1 WR. The Bills need a #1 WR in the mold of Boldin, or Calvin Johnson. Same goes with Chandler, he's a good #2 TE, but the Bills need a better pass catching TE.

 

I actually thought the WR's did better against the Jets with Goodwin as the #1 WR compared to yesterday's game. That's not to say that I think Goodwin should be the #1 WR, but the guy can play and should be used more than just the deep routes.

[Jauronimo]

Who wants to apologize to the people who criticized those that were defending SJ?

[BADOLBILZ]

But there is some elasticity to what you're saying, because being mentally "clutch" as a player and as a team can be worked on. Did you see Steven Ridley in yesterday's Patriots game? He was in his street clothes, on the sidelines, holding a football. He'll get another chance to prove that he has learned his lesson, and if he fails it, I have zero doubt they'll simply release him. He was their starting RB two weeks ago. That's how winning organizations deal with these types of things. Marrone talks a lot about "accountability" - now's his chance to cut Bobby Shaw. (I am not saying Stevie should be cut - but he damn well ought to be benched.) Stevie may never learn his lesson - he may be incapable. But taking action against that type of idiocy will at the very least teach others on the team what it takes to be a winner.

 

Precisely. It has to start somewhere. For Belichick, it's pretty easy to pick those guys that fail in the clutch out of the crowd and force them to face their issue. With the Bills.....noboby has proven themselves. The problem is that for Tom Brady.....no Ridley, no problem. For Manuel, no Stevie and no Chandler makes his job tougher.

[fridge]

Precisely. It has to start somewhere. For Belichick, it's pretty easy to pick those guys that fail in the clutch out of the crowd and force them to face their issue. With the Bills.....noboby has proven themselves. The problem is that for Tom Brady.....no Ridley, no problem. For Manuel, no Stevie and no Chandler makes his job tougher.

 

See, Jets Game.

[Pneumonic]

Precisely. It has to start somewhere. For Belichick, it's pretty easy to pick those guys that fail in the clutch out of the crowd and force them to face their issue. With the Bills.....noboby has proven themselves. The problem is that for Tom Brady.....no Ridley, no problem. For Manuel, no Stevie and no Chandler makes his job tougher.

Well stated. And it all points back to your previous post about losing culture and overcoming it.

 

For a team like the Pats they not only have a great QB who has proven, over and over again, that he can overcome most anything tossed his way, they also have the same benefit when it comes to their HC, their GM, and their owner.

 

Overcoming adversities for them is akin to taking a dump .... they do it all the time.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Stevie should be traded in the offseason. Stevie has proven time and time again he is not a true number one. And for those who point to his back to back 1000yd seasons, i ask- how many of those yards game in garbage time? I mean time when the Bills where out of the game and he racked up some stats?

Stevie would be a good number 2. The problem is Stevie does not appear to have the maturity to handle this demotion. So best thing would be trade him and get what you can before the draft.

[BADOLBILZ]

See, Jets Game.

 

I felt that way earlier this week. If I hadn't seen the Jets play the last two weeks after that Bills game I would agree with you. They are the worst team in football right now. The deep balls to Goodwin were not playable. We saw some terrible passes thrown toward Woods and Graham yesterday. One was an easy pic six and the other was to the DB and Graham had to make a nice recovery to break it up. Aside from the balls he completed to SJ his throws were BAD for 59:30 of that game. The one long completion to Woods was an easy pitch and catch that EJ turned into a helmet to the jaw for Woods. It drew a penalty but that is not good passing in perfect conditions and with pretty good pass protection I might say. Not an encouraging overall performance from EJ. I really don't want him facing that Tampa D without Stevie and Chandler.

[Dorkington]

I still like him as a second or third option. But his choke artist skills are really trying my patience. I would have no problem with the team trading him. But I'd also welcome him back.

[Jauronimo]

Stevie should be traded in the offseason. Stevie has proven time and time again he is not a true number one. And for those who point to his back to back 1000yd seasons, i ask- how many of those yards game in garbage time? I mean time when the Bills where out of the game and he racked up some stats?

Stevie would be a good number 2. The problem is Stevie does not appear to have the maturity to handle this demotion. So best thing would be trade him and get what you can before the draft.

Go normalize all WR stats for "garbage time" production and get back to us.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Stevie should be traded in the offseason. Stevie has proven time and time again he is not a true number one. And for those who point to his back to back 1000yd seasons, i ask- how many of those yards game in garbage time? I mean time when the Bills where out of the game and he racked up some stats?

Stevie would be a good number 2. The problem is Stevie does not appear to have the maturity to handle this demotion. So best thing would be trade him and get what you can before the draft.

Thing is, if we think he has issues... what opposing GM isn't going to identify them as well?

[Coach Tuesday]

Thing is, if we think he has issues... what opposing GM isn't going to identify them as well?

 

Jerry Jones, aka the man who traded boatloads of picks for Joey Galloway and Roy Williams. That's who.

[The Big Cat]

Well, after a couple weeks in time out, this seems like the right thread for me to jump right into.

 

My disgust with Stevie's attitude and lack of focus has been well documented here. And each time something pops up, those who want to point to his three 1,000 yard seasons to justify his immaturity treat his disappointments as though they're isolated incidents. Well, they're not.

 

And in this case, I'm not even that shook up about the fumble, that's the kind of thing we've (regrettably) come to expect. But is there anyone here, who, after hearing his post game interview alongside Chandler's, still wants to tell me that he's the player our franchise needs? That we're lucky to have him? That he's a leader on our team?

 

I hate to say I told ya so...but...

[FireChan]

Thing is, if we think he has issues... what opposing GM isn't going to identify them as well?

 

Jags? Chargers could use another WR to make a push. Tenn loves our castoffs. He'd find a home.