LB3 Posted November 27, 2013 Posted November 27, 2013 I repeated myself because I correctly assumed that you hadn't really followed the discussion. Stevie Johnson said he didn't train hard in the offseasons. He said it first. I took his word for it. Touched on much earlier in the discussion. With the obvious exception of Russ Brandon.......I generally take what people in the Bills organization actually say as exhibit A in an argument. Maybe I'm wrong but you sound like you never actually heard the interview where Stevie said he didn't work hard. The article below talks about how a lot of people overreacted to that comment because it comes off worse in text. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/2/1/3942564/stevie-johnson-jim-rome-workouts-buffalo-bills
BADOLBILZ Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 Maybe I'm wrong but you sound like you never actually heard the interview where Stevie said he didn't work hard. The article below talks about how a lot of people overreacted to that comment because it comes off worse in text. http://www.buffaloru...s-buffalo-bills Yeah, I get it, he hasn't followed the training regiment set forth by the professional trainers that are employed by the team that pays him $7M to perform his best. He finds it humorous because he is proud of his accomplishments without having to work as hard as the team wants him too. Which presumably most of his teammates do. I get it now, he is a hard worker. You convinced me.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 I repeated myself because I correctly assumed that you hadn't really followed the discussion. Stevie Johnson said he didn't train hard in the offseasons. He said it first. I took his word for it. Touched on much earlier in the discussion. With the obvious exception of Russ Brandon.......I generally take what people in the Bills organization actually say as exhibit A in an argument. Obviously you haven't "followed the conversation" because I addressed your take that Stevie didn't train hard in the offseasons. Thus you incorrectly assumed that I wasn't following the conversation and you are actually guilty of what you accused me of. And when I mentioned the "other stuff" you mentioned I was talking about the aspects of this conversation that I have not participated in and don't care about. You're going off on a lot of tangents.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 Obviously you haven't "followed the conversation" because I addressed your take that Stevie didn't train hard in the offseasons. Thus you incorrectly assumed that I wasn't following the conversation and you are actually guilty of what you accused me of. And when I mentioned the "other stuff" you mentioned I was talking about the aspects of this conversation that I have not participated in and don't care about. You're going off on a lot of tangents. My experience with you is that you just like being contrary, whether you are wrong or right. The evidence is right above you in Kiko's link. If Stevie was missing games every year with soft tissue injuries....like this year.... and came out and said he didn't workout in those offseason....except for when he was auditioning for the job obviously...... would you still say you think he is a hard-worker? Maybe he just breaking down at 26. Could be. But he said he hasn't worked out in the offseason. He said it. You say you think he is a hard worker. I guess we have a different definition of hard worker. I think training as hard as your teammates is a start, but maybe you think jogging with your girlfriend gets you in football shape.
3rdand12 Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) My experience with you is that you just like being contrary, whether you are wrong or right. The evidence is right above you in Kiko's link. If Stevie was missing games every year with soft tissue injuries....like this year.... and came out and said he didn't workout in those offseason....except for when he was auditioning for the job obviously...... would you still say you think he is a hard-worker? Maybe he just breaking down at 26. Could be. But he said he hasn't worked out in the offseason. He said it. You say you think he is a hard worker. I guess we have a different definition of hard worker. I think training as hard as your teammates is a start, but maybe you think jogging with your girlfriend gets you in football shape. Possibly you dont know the physical regimen. But more likely you are being sarcastic .Stevie was funning when he said he did not work out, Of course he does. You cant play 3 years getting the snot beat out of you by catching passes under duress without being in significantly better condition than you or i or most folks. I dont think anyone as a fan can question his conditioning at this point. its reaching at best. is he having and off year ? hell yes Edited November 28, 2013 by 3rdand12
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) Yeah, I get it, he hasn't followed the training regiment set forth by the professional trainers that are employed by the team that pays him $7M to perform his best. He finds it humorous because he is proud of his accomplishments without having to work as hard as the team wants him too. Which presumably most of his teammates do. I get it now, he is a hard worker. You convinced me. So in other words you didn't listen to the interview. Also he complied with the team's workout regimen this offseason. How did that work out? My experience with you is that you just like being contrary, whether you are wrong or right. The evidence is right above you in Kiko's link. If Stevie was missing games every year with soft tissue injuries....like this year.... and came out and said he didn't workout in those offseason....except for when he was auditioning for the job obviously...... would you still say you think he is a hard-worker? Maybe he just breaking down at 26. Could be. But he said he hasn't worked out in the offseason. He said it. You say you think he is a hard worker. I guess we have a different definition of hard worker. I think training as hard as your teammates is a start, but maybe you think jogging with your girlfriend gets you in football shape. To the bolded, you'd have a very hard time finding someone to agree with you on that. There's a few people here that don't like me (ie - Rico) but even people I've had heated debates with wouldn't call me a contrarian. There are people here who disagree for the sake of argument but I'm not one of them. I do find your criticism of me to be quite ironic though. Regardless, you continue to ignore the fact that Stevie worked out this offseason exactly as the team wished him to and it hasn't helped him avoid injury. Rather, you continue to argue that he's injury prone because he doesn't work hard enough. But I'm the contrarian. Also, being the literalist that you profess to be, Marrone has said that Stevie has been working hard since he took over so hopefully you find a way to reconcile that statement with your belief that Stevie's not a hard worker. A reasonable person would say that Stevie, a former 7th rounder turned star receiver, is a hard worker who happens to also be injury prone. But I'm not holding my breath. Edited November 28, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan
LB3 Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 Yeah, I get it, he hasn't followed the training regiment set forth by the professional trainers that are employed by the team that pays him $7M to perform his best. He finds it humorous because he is proud of his accomplishments without having to work as hard as the team wants him too. Which presumably most of his teammates do. I get it now, he is a hard worker. You convinced me. I now realize you are either truly incapable of understanding tongue in cheek humor or are just on a crusade. I'm glad you know his full workout regiment enough to know he does not follow any of the teams suggestions. Btw. The years he wasn't following the team regiment, he was pretty much getting league minimum and outperforming his pay. I guess the training regiment that made him a top NFL receiver just isn't good enough for you. Fair enough. Nothing will deter you from your mission so have fun.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) So in other words you didn't listen to the interview. Also he complied with the team's workout regimen this offseason. How did that work out? To the bolded, you'd have a very hard time finding someone to agree with you on that. There's a few people here that don't like me (ie - Rico) but even people I've had heated debates with wouldn't call me a contrarian. There are people here who disagree for the sake of argument but I'm not one of them. I do find your criticism to be quite ironic though. Regardless of your criticism of me, you continue to ignore the fact that Stevie worked out this offseason exactly as the team wished him to and it hasn't helped him avoid injury. Rather, you continue to argue that he's injury prone because he doesn't work hard enough. But I'm the contrarian. Also, being the literalist that you profess to be, Marrone has said that Stevie has been working hard since he took over so hopefully you find a way to reconcile that statement with your desire to take things people say at face value. A reasonable person would say that Stevie, a former 7th rounder turned star receiver, is a hard worker who happens to also be injury prone. But I'm not holding my breath for you. Oh you just like being contrary with me because you find my reponses *snarky*. You've whined of this before. That being said I confess that I lied. I said I take the word of people in the Buffalo Bills organization at their word.....as exhibit A......but Stevie saying he was "going to workout" in JANUARY doesn't really tell me he "worked out this offseason exactly as the team wished" as you insist. Even if he did finally decide to workout LAST offseason, do two offseasons out of 6 make him a "hard worker". Since these nagging injuries are recurring, could they have been avoided if he had been training hard regularly before? And your presumption that my NOT assuming a successful 7th round draft pick is a hard worker makes me unreasonable implies that he a)was dishonest in the Rome interview and b)somehow lacked the talent to make it without working as hard as everyone else. As discussed earlier in this thread, he was a seventh round pick mainly because of limited exposure in college. He was a star player in college, but just for one season. He went the Juco route and didn't play for a particularly successful Kentucky program. He had a lot of opportunity in Buffalo. Bad team, very little receiving talent. The year he emerged he was often the highest pedigreed receiver on the field because Nelson and Jones were undrafted. It would be interesting to hear what Stevie says about why he thinks he keeps having groin and hamstring problems. After this discussion, there are certainly some great questions I would love to hear Stevie answer. Remember, he's not a seventh round pick anymore, he is a $7M man. I really had no idea how adamant people were about Stevie being clutch or a hard woker. I kind of thought 2 eyes and 2 ears were common on this board. Honestly, he's been an afterthought to me because he's been hobbling all year so it's been interesting talking about his status. Edited November 28, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ
Dibs Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) ..... I really had no idea how adamant people were about Stevie being clutch or a hard woker. I kind of thought 2 eyes and 2 ears were common on this board. Honestly, he's been an afterthought to me because he's been hobbling all year so it's been interesting talking about his status. I think it more that you came to a conclusion that he was not a hard worker based upon selective information and an obviously biased view on the information at hand(being determined to interpret an obviously attempted humourous response as that of moronic honesty for one). Considering all of the many counterarguments put to you about it........you still definitively maintain that SJ is not a hard worker, thus his injury issues. Ignoring the additional concept that there is a plethora of injury issues suffered every season by starting WRs around the league every year & that SJ has remained comparatively very healthy prior to this season, the fact that you have adamantly drawn a conclusion on a topic that one cannot be drawn suggest that you are perhaps somewhat impartial in your views on this. I guess it's just the blind optimist that yet again can't see the clarity of you impartial facts. Edited November 28, 2013 by Dibs
LB3 Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) It would be interesting to hear what Stevie says about why he thinks he keeps having groin and hamstring problems. After this discussion, there are certainly some great questions I would love to hear Stevie answer. While you are awaiting those answers, please be sure to send an email to Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Britt, Michael Crabtree, Rob Gronkowski, Malcolm Floyd, Mike Williams, Miles Austin, Jeremy Maclin, Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, Julio Jones and Percy Harvin. They all must have a crap work ethic too because they all have either nagging injuries or season ending/ruining injuries. Edited November 28, 2013 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall
dave mcbride Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) The larger question is whether any particular practice regimen makes a player "injury prone", especially with regard to soft tissue injuries. I happen to think not; it's not as if Johnson isn't one of the most sculpted specimens on the team anyway. A counterexample is Steven Jackson, who is by all accounts an extremely hard worker and practicer. Plus he's extremely strong and muscular. Yet for years, he has been plagued by soft tissue injury after soft tissue injury. Some people are just injury prone because the way their muscles are wound. A more interesting question is what Johnson is doing to avoid the ankle, foot, achilles/calf, and knee injuries that plague most corners and DBs. No shoulder injuries either, as far as I know. And I don't think he has ever been concussed, which takes real skill for a player who makes catches in the middle as often as he does. One might even be tempted to say that he's the opposite of injury prone. Every player gets hurt and misses time, but in six seasons he has missed precisely one game. Edited November 28, 2013 by dave mcbride
apuszczalowski Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 No one is talking about him because he does enough talking about Stevie for himself and the fans.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) The larger question is whether any particular practice regimen makes a player "injury prone", especially with regard to soft tissue injuries. I happen to think not; it's not as if Johnson isn't one of the most sculpted specimens on the team anyway. A counterexample is Steven Jackson, who is by all accounts an extremely hard worker and practicer. Plus he's extremely strong and muscular. Yet for years, he has been plagued by soft tissue injury after soft tissue injury. Some people are just injury prone because the way their muscles are wound. A more interesting question is what Johnson is doing to avoid the ankle, foot, achilles/calf, and knee injuries that plague most corners and DBs. No shoulder injuries either, as far as I know. And I don't think he has ever been concussed, which takes real skill for a player who makes catches in the middle as often as he does. One might even be tempted to say that he's the opposite of injury prone. Every player gets hurt and misses time, but in six seasons he has missed precisely one game. I actually tend to think that groin and hamstring injuries are more related to stretching and diet. But since I am not a professional trainer.....In this thread I merely question if they are related to the more general "training". We have had Bills teams in the past that had lots of these type of injuries. The late 1990's Bills (Club Marv and Wade)were nagged by an exceptional amount of groin and other soft-tissue injuries........then Gregg Williams came in with a more physically demanding day-to-day approach and they all but disappeared. Playing sports growing up, I had re-curring groin injuries which I countered by working on stretching. Seemed to work. I hated stretching, it was the last thing I wanted to do, but I did it when it became clear that I wasn't stretching well enough and getting hurt as a result. I do question whether Stevie's casual approach to training hasn't caused these groin/hamstring injuries to keep happening. Like.....today my training is playing hoops in the park......do I really need to stretch for 20 minutes before doing that? Jogging? Really? The other aspect of this thread that I think is very ill informed is this belief that NFL players are automatically doing what is best for their health.....and that it is somehow beyond question. I was at the home of one of a Bills starting player after a playoff victory back in the 1990's and maybe 3-4 hours after the game he takes his sock off and his ankle is the size of a football. I asked him if he should put some ice on it or elevate it or something?....I mean, they are on the cusp of a Super Bowl. He was like......meh. And let's just say he was considered one of the "harder working" most intelligent players on the team. The moral of the story is that these are just a bunch of young guys and the perception that they are all sweating the details 24/7 is far from accurate. When you actually know some players away from the field....you realize they are pretty much like all other 25-30 year old men. Some of them don't take particularly good care of themselves, some of them hate their job, a lot of them struggle with what to do with so much free time after years of school/sports/jobs managing their lives 16 hours a day........it's not necessarily how people perceive these high paid athletes. Edited November 28, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ
Maury Ballstein Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 Wow this guy sure knows a ton about lazy Stevie Crusade on .
Rico Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 So in other words you didn't listen to the interview. Also he complied with the team's workout regimen this offseason. How did that work out? To the bolded, you'd have a very hard time finding someone to agree with you on that. There's a few people here that don't like me (ie - Rico) but even people I've had heated debates with wouldn't call me a contrarian. There are people here who disagree for the sake of argument but I'm not one of them. I do find your criticism of me to be quite ironic though. Now if I didn't like you, I would've skipped past this post & just read Badol, dave mcbride, and a couple others. Seems like you take this board too seriously sometimes, but that's OK. I wouldn't recommend arguing with Badol though, you will be schooled every time.. Happy Thanksgiving!
bills44 Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 Wow this guy sure knows a ton about lazy Stevie Crusade on . Crusades are in violation of the TOS, right?
PO'14 Posted November 29, 2013 Posted November 29, 2013 No one is talking about him because he does enough talking about Stevie for himself and the fans. WINNING POST!
Thurmal34 Posted November 29, 2013 Posted November 29, 2013 He is a significantly worse player in big situations than in less meaningful ones. Do you have the numbers to back this up? Bill James sez clutch is for simpletons. He also simply does not work hard enough on his conditioning.........a fact he has admitted. He has? Link it. IMO the most misinterpreted (eagerly) comment of all time. Please provide a link to him saying this fact he has in your words admitted. ....and that has likely been the reason for his constant, CONSTANT problems with soft tissue injuries. Prove it. With science, not supposition
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