Why isn't anyone talking about Stevie?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Now if I didn't like you, I would've skipped past this post & just read Badol, dave mcbride, and a couple others. Seems like you take this board too seriously sometimes, but that's OK. I wouldn't recommend arguing with Badol though, you will be schooled every time..

 

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

Someone once posted that I be made a moderator on this board. Not sure why it was brought up but that's immaterial.

 

However you quoted the post and added the "thumbs down" emoticon.

 

That tells me everything I need to know about how you feel about me so play if off if you'd like but you're not being honest.

 

Also Badol doesn't school me and I don't school him but it sounds like I can put you down for believing that Stevie doesn't work hard and as a result, is injury prone.

[Dibs]

Someone once posted that I be made a moderator on this board. Not sure why it was brought up but that's immaterial.

 

However you quoted the post and added the "thumbs down" emoticon.

 

That tells me everything I need to know about how you feel about me so play if off if you'd like but you're not being honest.

 

.....

 

Not really. It might mean that Rico wouldn't like the concept of you being a moderator.....but is happy enough to read your posts generally.

There are a lot of posters that I am happy to read their thoughts.....but wouldn't want them moderating.

[dave mcbride]

 

 

I actually tend to think that groin and hamstring injuries are more related to stretching and diet. But since I am not a professional trainer.....In this thread I merely question if they are related to the more general "training". We have had Bills teams in the past that had lots of these type of injuries. The late 1990's Bills (Club Marv and Wade)were nagged by an exceptional amount of groin and other soft-tissue injuries........then Gregg Williams came in with a more physically demanding day-to-day approach and they all but disappeared. Playing sports growing up, I had re-curring groin injuries which I countered by working on stretching. Seemed to work. I hated stretching, it was the last thing I wanted to do, but I did it when it became clear that I wasn't stretching well enough and getting hurt as a result. I do question whether Stevie's casual approach to training hasn't caused these groin/hamstring injuries to keep happening. Like.....today my training is playing hoops in the park......do I really need to stretch for 20 minutes before doing that? Jogging? Really?

 

The other aspect of this thread that I think is very ill informed is this belief that NFL players are automatically doing what is best for their health.....and that it is somehow beyond question. I was at the home of one of a Bills starting player after a playoff victory back in the 1990's and maybe 3-4 hours after the game he takes his sock off and his ankle is the size of a football. I asked him if he should put some ice on it or elevate it or something?....I mean, they are on the cusp of a Super Bowl. He was like......meh. And let's just say he was considered one of the "harder working" most intelligent players on the team. The moral of the story is that these are just a bunch of young guys and the perception that they are all sweating the details 24/7 is far from accurate. When you actually know some players away from the field....you realize they are pretty much like all other 25-30 year old men. Some of them don't take particularly good care of themselves, some of them hate their job, a lot of them struggle with what to do with so much free time after years of school/sports/jobs managing their lives 16 hours a day........it's not necessarily how people perceive these high paid athletes.

 

Re your second paragraph here, I completely agree. A lot of these guys aren't particularly responsible or wise about their health, and I think a lot of them aren't especially thrilled with the job. The pay is obviously very good, but it hurts like hell and you get yelled at constantly. I remember listening around 20 years ago to an interview with Burt Grossman, a lineman who played for a long time for the Eagles and Chargers. He was pretty solid. It was a radio interview with Jim Rome before Rome went national, and Grossman flat out told him that the last time he actually enjoyed playing football was in high school. He didn't enjoy being an NFL player at all, and said college was barely any better. But he was good, and he wasn't going to turn down the paycheck. Football is very different from other sports in that many players endure it rather than enjoy it. Baseball and basketball players, for instance, seem to love the game far more than NFL players (on average; I know there are exceptions). Deep down, you know that Stevie would far prefer to be playing in the NBA. Moulds and TO always said that too, but they aren't/weren't good enough.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Re your second paragraph here, I completely agree. A lot of these guys aren't particularly responsible or wise about their health, and I think a lot of them aren't especially thrilled with the job. The pay is obviously very good, but it hurts like hell and you get yelled at constantly. I remember listening around 20 years ago to an interview with Burt Grossman, a lineman who played for a long time for the Eagles and Chargers. He was pretty solid. It was a radio interview with Jim Rome before Rome went national, and Grossman flat out told him that the last time he actually enjoyed playing football was in high school. He didn't enjoy being an NFL player at all, and said college was barely any better. But he was good, and he wasn't going to turn down the paycheck. Football is very different from other sports in that many players endure it rather than enjoy it. Baseball and basketball players, for instance, seem to love the game far more than NFL players (on average; I know there are exceptions). Deep down, you know that Stevie would far prefer to be playing in the NBA. Moulds and TO always said that too, but they aren't/weren't good enough.

 

I think Bado's assertion that "it is very ill-informed this belief that NFL players are automatically doing what is best for their health" isn't necessarily supported by your anecdote about the former defensive end Burt Grossman.

 

I agree with the part about many NFL players not liking their jobs and only doing it for the money. I worked as a sports producer for the CBS affiliate in Buffalo from 1985 to 1990 and knew several of the Bills and Sabres who felt this way.

 

However his main point in that paragraph is that there are a significant number of players who don't bother doing everything they can training, diet, rehab-wise to maximize their careers. I have three points on this discussion:

 

1) All three of our experiences were with athletes approximately 20 years ago. From watching the games I think it's pretty obvious that the level of mental and physical commitment by NFL players is far greater than it was 20 years ago. They are bigger, stronger, faster, and I seriously doubt any athlete is talented enough to have a real career in the NFL without having a good work ethic. Thus I think the percentage of players who are lax in their approach to their professions is fairly minute, regardless of how much they might like or dislike their jobs.

 

2) Grossman saying that he didn't like his job does not equate to him saying that he didn't work hard.

 

In fact it could just as easily be argued that since Grossman put such a high premium on pursuing the high income that came with the job that he was a hard worker, not just some guy hanging around to pick up a paycheck. And in fact if you remember Burt Grossman as a player which you obviously do, you would remember him playing a hard-working and inexorable style of football.

 

3) Like Billy Joe Hobart and Stevie Johnson, Grossman had a well-known reputation as a loudmouth who often said things for effect and to be provocative. That means that there's a real possibility that like Hobart saying that he "didn't study the playbook" and like Stevie saying that he didn't follow the team's workout regimen, Grossman could have easily been bending the truth in the interview which you heard.

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

I think Bado's assertion that "it is very ill-informed this belief that NFL players are automatically doing what is best for their health" isn't necessarily supported by your anecdote about the former defensive end Burt Grossman.

 

I agree with the part about many NFL players not liking their jobs and only doing it for the money. I worked as a sports producer for the CBS affiliate in Buffalo from 1985 to 1990 and knew several of the Bills and Sabres who felt this way.

 

However his main point in that paragraph is that there are a significant number of players who don't bother doing everything they can training, diet, rehab-wise to maximize their careers. I have three points on this discussion:

 

1) All three of our experiences were with athletes approximately 20 years ago. From watching the games I think it's pretty obvious that the level of mental and physical commitment by NFL players is far greater than it was 20 years ago. They are bigger, stronger, faster, and I seriously doubt any athlete is talented enough to have a real career in the NFL without having a good work ethic. Thus I think the percentage of players who are lax in their approach to their professions is fairly minute, regardless of how much they might like or dislike their jobs.

 

This is an interesting topic, one in which it is obvious that you and Badol know more about than me, but I do have a comment.

A poster asked before about the fact that some (not all) Crimson Tide players do not do as well as expected in the pros. My theory is because they don't HAVE to work as hard as they did under Saban. As I Tide Fan, I think that this is almost beyond dispute.

 

Do you remember the Dareus interview about Saban? He said that Coach Saban "controls every hour of your life." I believe him. He also said that if Saban came back to the NFL he would have to "lighten up." I believe that too SJB.

 

I was a Dareus Fan long before he came to Buffalo. This is NOT a slam on him, but I strongly doubt that he works a hard as he did in college. He simply doesn't have to.

 

As far as players who can be lax, there will always be some. Players such as Riggins, Earl Campbell and of course Lawrence Taylor were simply born with more gifts than other humans. If LT was young and following his past regimen he would still be the best LB in this league by far.

[LB3]

 

 

If LT was young and following his past regimen he would still be the best LB in this league by far.

 

I have to disagree here. LT would have been kicked out of the league early in his career if not before it even began if he was in the league today if he followed his regimen. As Rick James once said in an episode of the Dave Chapelle show "Cocaine is a hell of a drug."

 

In all seriousness, I wonder how much being coked up while playing positively affected his play. I'm by no means saying there is anything positive about doing cocaine, but he played like a mad man and that could have been amplified by the drug.

Edited November 30, 2013 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

This is an interesting topic, one in which it is obvious that you and Badol know more about than me, but I do have a comment.

A poster asked before about the fact that some (not all) Crimson Tide players do not do as well as expected in the pros. My theory is because they don't HAVE to work as hard as they did under Saban. As I Tide Fan, I think that this is almost beyond dispute.

 

Do you remember the Dareus interview about Saban? He said that Coach Saban "controls every hour of your life." I believe him. He also said that if Saban came back to the NFL he would have to "lighten up." I believe that too SJB.

 

I was a Dareus Fan long before he came to Buffalo. This is NOT a slam on him, but I strongly doubt that he works a hard as he did in college. He simply doesn't have to.

 

As far as players who can be lax, there will always be some. Players such as Riggins, Earl Campbell and of course Lawrence Taylor were simply born with more gifts than other humans. If LT was young and following his past regimen he would still be the best LB in this league by far.

 

Maybe they just aren't good enough. That's why the idea of a team like Alabama beating a bad NFL team is so laughable. Not every player who goes to Alabama is NFL quality.

 

Alabama has great talent, no doubt about it. But some players are helped because of that talent around him. A lot of rbs could put up #s running behind that oline. It was a giant wake up call for Ingram would he actually got contacted before he was 5 yards down the field.

 

It's also why AJ McCarron as a Heisman candidate is silly. He doesn't get breathe on! You can sub a lot of Qbs for Alabama and there won't be a drop off. But would McCarron be putting up Johnny Football numbers at Texas A & M? I highly doubt it.

 

And if you don't believe a 7th round pick who barely played his first 2 years in the NFL can turn into a 3 time 1,000 yard wr without hard work, you're either foolish or just a hater.

[PO'14]

I still want to know who is this Stevie Johnson you guys are talking about?

[thebandit27]

I still want to know who is this Stevie Johnson you guys are talking about?

 

Might I suggest you go back through every single one of your posts and shouts over the last 18 months...you'll learn quite a bit about him there.

[BADOLBILZ]

This is an interesting topic, one in which it is obvious that you and Badol know more about than me, but I do have a comment.

A poster asked before about the fact that some (not all) Crimson Tide players do not do as well as expected in the pros. My theory is because they don't HAVE to work as hard as they did under Saban. As I Tide Fan, I think that this is almost beyond dispute.

 

Do you remember the Dareus interview about Saban? He said that Coach Saban "controls every hour of your life." I believe him. He also said that if Saban came back to the NFL he would have to "lighten up." I believe that too SJB.

 

I was a Dareus Fan long before he came to Buffalo. This is NOT a slam on him, but I strongly doubt that he works a hard as he did in college. He simply doesn't have to.

 

As far as players who can be lax, there will always be some. Players such as Riggins, Earl Campbell and of course Lawrence Taylor were simply born with more gifts than other humans. If LT was young and following his past regimen he would still be the best LB in this league by far.

 

No question that Dareus got out of shape when he came to Buffalo. His play last year was blamed on personal tragedy but he came to camp with a completely different looking physique than what he had at Alabama. About 40 pounds of extra gut around the waistline.

 

NFL teams don't have these players under their thumb the way a lot of the football factories do. If you want to maximize your draft value you DO NOT cross the coaching staff.

 

Again, the issue with Stevie has been that he himself has said he wasn't training like the team wanted him to.

 

Period.

 

The apologists want to turn this into a general criticism.....and it's not. Maybe he works hard on his routes or catching the football. Maybe he studies hard. But he has said he doesn't train in the offseason as the team wants him to and he has struggled to stay healthy. That's all that matters in this discussion.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Again, the issue with Stevie has been that he himself has said he wasn't training like the team wanted him to.

 

Period.

 

The apologists want to turn this into a general criticism.....and it's not. Maybe he works hard on his routes or catching the football. Maybe he studies hard. But he has said he doesn't train in the offseason as the team wants him to and he has struggled to stay healthy. That's all that matters in this discussion.

 

Again, the above is only your dubious opinion.

 

Period.

 

Since Stevie became a starter in 2010 and through the 2012 season he missed exactly zero games to injury and played in all 48 games.

 

THEN he had the interview with Jim Rome this past February where he stated very possibly tongue-in-cheek that he "usually doesn't work out." This interview was replete with joking and chuckles.

 

Stevie revealed in that interview that he planned to adhere to the team's workout regimen because he wanted to be on board with the new coaching staff.

 

Only after this past offseason of complying with the team's training program has he missed games due to injury.

 

So in direct contradiction to your take, only since "working harder" has Stevie missed games to injury.

 

And you continue to ignore very good points made contrary to yours.

[Rockinon]

I'm tired of talking about Stevie.

[Beerball]

Have we not beaten this to death?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

All of these topics are voluntary.

 

For my own part, I'm disputing a specious claim that Stevie is injury prone because he doesn't work hard.

 

That's the one dog I have in this fight.

[Beerball]

All of these topics are voluntary.

 

For my own part, I'm disputing a specious claim that Stevie is injury prone because he doesn't work hard.

 

That's the one dog I have in this fight.

Yeah, I got that 7 pages ago.

[thewildrabbit]

I have to disagree here. LT would have been kicked out of the league early in his career if not before it even began if he was in the league today if he followed his regimen. As Rick James once said in an episode of the Dave Chapelle show "Cocaine is a hell of a drug."

 

In all seriousness, I wonder how much being coked up while playing positively affected his play. I'm by no means saying there is anything positive about doing cocaine, but he played like a mad man and that could have been amplified by the drug.

Well he certainly wouldn't have passed the current drug testing programs in the NFL, and would probably be working on his 3rd strike or gone like you said. I can recall LT stating that it was crazy for a young player in his time, 90k in his pocket, and looking to score some drugs and girls.

 

LT didn't need coke to play well tho, as both he and Bruce Smith proved they could be the very best without it.

 

 

Anyway, Stevie should kill this thread this weekend when he starts against the Falcons, and does well.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Yeah, I got that 7 pages ago.

 

Well there's a poster in this topic who has more than twice as many posts as I.

[Beerball]

Well there's a poster in this topic who has more than twice as many posts as I.

You're the one who decided to converse with me.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

You're the one who decided to converse with me.

 

I couldn't resist.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

Again, the above is only your dubious opinion.

 

Period.

 

Since Stevie became a starter in 2010 and through the 2012 season he missed exactly zero games to injury and played in all 48 games.

 

THEN he had the interview with Jim Rome this past February where he stated very possibly tongue-in-cheek that he "usually doesn't work out." This interview was replete with joking and chuckles.

 

Stevie revealed in that interview that he planned to adhere to the team's workout regimen because he wanted to be on board with the new coaching staff.

 

Only after this past offseason of complying with the team's training program has he missed games due to injury.

 

So in direct contradiction to your take, only since "working harder" has Stevie missed games to injury.

 

And you continue to ignore very good points made contrary to yours.

 

What Stevie said is not my opinion.

 

It is a matter of fact.

 

Your assertion that he complied with the teams training program last offseason is a fact free opinion. He didn't say he did. He said he was intending to.

 

Like I said, these would be good questions for Stevie to be asked:

 

Did you follow the Bills prescribed offseason training program this past offseason?

 

Have you in the past?

 

Do you feel that your recurring groin and hamstring injuries could be eliminated with changes in your training?

 

I think the main reason these questions haven't been asked is that the media doesn't believe Stevie's presence is the difference between winning and losing games.

 

If this were the teams QB limping around and not finishing games numerous times over a 3 year period then those questions would have been asked.

 

When a team is winning, media and fans sweat the details. When they are not, all of the focus goes on broader concerns like management and the QB.

Edited December 1, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ