Doc Posted November 25, 2013 Author Posted November 25, 2013 He didn't "stake his claim" to Totonto, he pimped out his team to Toronto for some quick cash and now will leave the team to get passed around to various canadian bidders after he passes. Sure he staked his claim. By making a deal that was approved by the NFL to have the Bills play a home game in Toronto, he effectively said it's Bills territory, period. So if any team is going to be playing there, it's the Bills and not a new team. That squashed any talk of an expansion team going there and taking part of the Bills' fan base. As for what happens after he dies, it's all speculation. But there are enough people with ties to Buffalo who have more than enough money to compete with the Toronto group. The relocation fee is $275 million. That seems low. Can I see the link?
8-8 Forever? Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 Correct me if I'm wrong but don't the Wilsons have full control as to who they inevitably sell the team to? Just because this band of canadians might have billions at their disposal, don't you think the Wilson's would rather stay loyal to Ralph after his passing and sell it to a group with interest in Buffalo? So who the heck cares how much money they have, in the end the team is not theirs unless the Wilsons choose them and they won't. Open auction, highest bidder wins, that's what his will purportedly says.
dpberr Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 I've always been of the opinion that there *is* a plan in place and has been for quite some time. I don't see Ralph Wilson being a man who leaves his legacy to chance. I don't see the Wilson family allowing their father's legacy to be dictated by others.
mrags Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 I've always been of the opinion that there *is* a plan in place and has been for quite some time. I don't see Ralph Wilson being a man who leaves his legacy to chance. I don't see the Wilson family allowing their father's legacy to be dictated by others. this
Doc Posted November 25, 2013 Author Posted November 25, 2013 Open auction, highest bidder wins, that's what his will purportedly says. Purportedly. Purportedly he was never going to relinquish control over day-to-day operations...until he did.
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) The Bills and their owner, like any other NFL team, are bound by the terms of the NFL Constitution & Bylaws. It can be amended from time to time by vote of the owners, but the 2006 version is the most recent that I have been able to find. You can read it here (if you have a few days): http://static.nfl.co...ers/pdf/co_.pdf Figuring out what it says is made slightly easier by the fact that it has a table of contents at the beginning, and like any other pdf document, you can use a search box that will jump you to particular words used anywhere in the document. The NFL Constitution & Bylaws are relevant to several issues being discussed in this thread. First, there was no need for Wilson to "stake a claim" to the Toronto market by playing games there. The NFL Constitution defines the Home Territory for each team and makes Toronto part of the Bills' "Home Territory" without Wilson lifting a finger. I don't have time to reproduce the language in this post (I'm traveling soon for Thanksgiving), but it is spelled out in Article IV - "Territorial Rights." You can read exactly what it says starting at page 12 (it's page 14 in the pdf search box because the pdf search box assigns page numbers to the table of contents but the internal document page numbering doesn't). Second, because Toronto is already included within the existing "Home Territory" of the Bills, I think it is unlikely that any owner of the Bills would need to pay a relocation fee even if he eventually started playing all of the team's games in Toronto. The Giants didn't need to pay a relocation fee when they moved their stadium across a state border from NY to NJ - - why should the Bills have to pay a relocation fee just because they cross an international border rather than a state border? You may consider them to be the "Buffalo" Bills. The NFL Constitution defines them, in effect, as the "Anywhere Within 75 Miles of The Buffalo City Limits" Bills. Third, as Buftex pointed out, the other NFL owners have to approve any new owners of the Bills. See Article III, section 3.5, entitled "Transfer of Membership," starting at document page 6 (pdf page 8). Wilson and his heirs can't sell the team to anybody without approval of the other owners. Finally, the way the NFL Constitution & Bylaws defines "Home Territory" gives the Toronto folks a powerful incentive to bid higher for the Bills than they might for any other NFL team. If the Toronto people buy say the Jags or Rams and want to move them to Toronto, there would be a relocation fee, and the Bills would need to be compensated for another team moving into the Bills' existing "Home Territory." The Toronto people arguably avoid those expenses entirely if they buy the Bills and eventually build them a new stadium anywhere in the Toronto area that is within 75 miles (as the crow flies) of the nearest point of the Buffalo city limits. Gotta run - - hope everybody has a nice Thanksgiving. Edited November 25, 2013 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead
Beerball Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 So we will be the Toronto bills? That would wreak everything! That would be a frecking tragedy.
uncle flap Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 I've always been of the opinion that there *is* a plan in place and has been for quite some time. I don't see Ralph Wilson being a man who leaves his legacy to chance. I don't see the Wilson family allowing their father's legacy to be dictated by others. Stating that team the team is available to the highest bidder drives up the price and thus his family will be better off than if he gives someone a hometown discount. So the first question we have to ask is whether his family's financial well-being a more important legacy to leave, or does he care more about the city of Buffalo than his own family? Not that those "legacies" are necessarily mutually exclusive as far as the team staying in Buffalo is concerned, although in most cases they would seem to be at odds against each other. However, there very well may be a plan in place- Ralph says I'll sell to a particular group, as long as they are willing to pay as much as any other group is willing to pay OR at least X amount of dollars. That would certainly be a win-win scenario, and I think that has been the basics of the plan all along. The real issue is keeping the team economically viable after taking on the debt any new owner would be assuming. That debt almost certainly includes a new stadium. I do think that there are enough potential owners with enough money to keep the Bills from leaving Buffalo in the near future, but if Buffalo can't support a new stadium with more boxes and increased ticket prices, an owner won't be able to justify keeping a franchise here if he doesn't stand a chance at making his money back because the area won't support the team.
l< j Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 Finally, the way the NFL Constitution & Bylaws defines "Home Territory" gives the Toronto folks a powerful incentive to bid higher for the Bills than they might for any other NFL team. If the Toronto people buy say the Jags or Rams and want to move them to Toronto, there would be a relocation fee, and the Bills would need to be compensated for another team moving into the Bills' existing "Home Territory." The Toronto people arguably avoid those expenses entirely if they buy the Bills and eventually build them a new stadium anywhere in the Toronto area that is within 75 miles (as the crow flies) of the nearest point of the Buffalo city limits. Thanks. And yikes. kj
Beerball Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 That seems low. Can I see the link? From 12/11
Leelee Phoenix Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 Yes, the Wilsons have full control who they wish to sell to. Ralph has said he wants the team in Buffalo, but who knows. Listening to La Canfora today, I don't think this story has any wheels. Basically, Bon Jovi wants any NFL team, has enough money and has built connections to get a group going, and the Bills are probably the best upcoming option since Ralph is very old. That's it.
Offside Number 76 Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 As I said above, this is the usual Toronto week BS: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10034339/jon-bon-jovi-reported-pursuit-buffalo-bills-refuted
Leelee Phoenix Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 Obvious response from Bon Jovi, he's not going to ask Ralph now and insult him and his family.
BRH Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 As I said above, this is the usual Toronto week BS: http://espn.go.com/n...o-bills-refuted Also, Toronto and Ontario would like nothing more than a shiny object to take the media's attention off the Rob Ford story. Here you go.
Doc Posted November 25, 2013 Author Posted November 25, 2013 The Bills and their owner, like any other NFL team, are bound by the terms of the NFL Constitution & Bylaws. It can be amended from time to time by vote of the owners, but the 2006 version is the most recent that I have been able to find. You can read it here (if you have a few days): http://static.nfl.co...ers/pdf/co_.pdf Figuring out what it says is made slightly easier by the fact that it has a table of contents at the beginning, and like any other pdf document, you can use a search box that will jump you to particular words used anywhere in the document. The NFL Constitution & Bylaws are relevant to several issues being discussed in this thread. First, there was no need for Wilson to "stake a claim" to the Toronto market by playing games there. The NFL Constitution defines the Home Territory for each team and makes Toronto part of the Bills' "Home Territory" without Wilson lifting a finger. I don't have time to reproduce the language in this post (I'm traveling soon for Thanksgiving), but it is spelled out in Article IV - "Territorial Rights." You can read exactly what it says starting at page 12 (it's page 14 in the pdf search box because the pdf search box assigns page numbers to the table of contents but the internal document page numbering doesn't). Second, because Toronto is already included within the existing "Home Territory" of the Bills, I think it is unlikely that any owner of the Bills would need to pay a relocation fee even if he eventually started playing all of the team's games in Toronto. The Giants didn't need to pay a relocation fee when they moved their stadium across a state border from NY to NJ - - why should the Bills have to pay a relocation fee just because they cross an international border rather than a state border? You may consider them to be the "Buffalo" Bills. The NFL Constitution defines them, in effect, as the "Anywhere Within 75 Miles of The Buffalo City Limits" Bills. Third, as Buftex pointed out, the other NFL owners have to approve any new owners of the Bills. See Article III, section 3.5, entitled "Transfer of Membership," starting at document page 6 (pdf page 8). Wilson and his heirs can't sell the team to anybody without approval of the other owners. Finally, the way the NFL Constitution & Bylaws defines "Home Territory" gives the Toronto folks a powerful incentive to bid higher for the Bills than they might for any other NFL team. If the Toronto people buy say the Jags or Rams and want to move them to Toronto, there would be a relocation fee, and the Bills would need to be compensated for another team moving into the Bills' existing "Home Territory." The Toronto people arguably avoid those expenses entirely if they buy the Bills and eventually build them a new stadium anywhere in the Toronto area that is within 75 miles (as the crow flies) of the nearest point of the Buffalo city limits. Gotta run - - hope everybody has a nice Thanksgiving. Fair enough that Ralph's deal didn't stake a claim to Toronto because it was already claimed. But it also didn't grease any skids. As for the relo fee, I don't know if it works like that. The Bills' market is considered to be Buffalo and the immediate surrounds, and doesn't include Toronto. Moving to Toronto would be a significant step-up in market size from which an owner would reap significant benefits. However to get the Bills out of Buffalo, they might be willing to waive the relo fee.
ThurmasThoman Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 For some perspective, here are the standings from the National Football League's 1970 season, now 43 years ago: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1970/ *Note: every city that had an NFL franchise 43 years ago, still has one today, with the exception of los angeles. For a point of comparison, here are the standings from the NBA that season: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970%E2%80%9371_NBA_season *Note: 5 cities from those standings no longer have teams, 6 if you count the warriors. Out of 18 teams that were in the league at that point, that means that anywhere from a quarter to a third of the teams from that season relocated. The fact of the matter is, an 80,000 seat stadium that routinely sells out is a rare occurrence to come by in the American landscape. If you are an owner, and you buy a franchise for several hundred million dollars, we can assume 2 things: a) that owner is smart b) that owner is conservative with their money You won't see many people spend 300 million dollars, and then say "hey, why don't I move this 300 million dollar business to somewhere that has never proven viable to support an enterprise of this nature, has no attachment to the brand, and all in a sport where journalists claim vultures are circling due to concussion law suits" why would you do that? why would any owner ever do that? AND pay a 400 million dollar relocation fee? AND pay for a new stadium??? worst worst worst worst worst worst worst case scenario: "the lake eerie Bills" at some point in the next 20 years, ala the "new england patriots" who play their games an hour outside of boston. Also, please take note that the Bills are 18th in average attendance, pretty much middle of the pack: http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance Which isn't that impressive, aside from the fact that we havent been to the playoffs since Clinton was president, and average more fans at home games than 4 of the current division leaders. The bottom line is this: The Bills will never leave Buffalo, because unlike journalists and members of this message board, billionaires that buy football teams aren't idiots. No one is spending 300 million dollars on a flight of fancy, to gamble on moving this team to a market that may or may not want them. If they were that stupid, they'd be posting on here, or gossiping on espn.com.
Maury Ballstein Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 HA! Unfortunately, Cuban can't own the bills… maybe one of the others will split with the 500 mill? What is preventing Cuban if he was interested ?
BuffaloRebound Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 I think it would be very difficult to re-locate a team to a city as close as Toronto is to Buffalo. There would be so much bad will and you're basically eliminating the current Bills fanbase from ever supporting a Toronto team. Safe to say, 80-90% of Bills fans would never support the Toronto Bills, Canadian fans included. Could see a scenario where all post-Thanksgiving home games are in Toronto though.
Buftex Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 Correct me if I'm wrong but don't the Wilsons have full control as to who they inevitably sell the team to? Just because this band of canadians might have billions at their disposal, don't you think the Wilson's would rather stay loyal to Ralph after his passing and sell it to a group with interest in Buffalo? So who the heck cares how much money they have, in the end the team is not theirs unless the Wilsons choose them and they won't. As long as an owner has to be approved by the other owners, than nobody, not even a living Mr Wilson, has "full control" over who the team is sold to, when that times comes. What is best for the NFL, may not be best for WNY Bills fans...
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