vegas55 Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 I think Marrone is a great hire and a great coach, but when it comes to game management, he is, like most NFL coaches, extremely deficient. A lot of this stems from the fact that the head coach, standing on the sideline and involved in the emotion of the game and play to play calls, lack the perspective to strategically manage a game. Marrone is the rule, not the exception, and you see from week to week in the NFL head coaches terribly mismanaging the game. Bears head coach Trestman is the latest example. Up by three with less than 2 minutes and the Ravens at the 5 yard line, he does not take any timeouts to stop the clock and allow his offense a chance to comeback if the Ravens scored a TD. Phil Simms is yelling in the booth as to why in the world time outs aren't being used. It's not because Trestman is stupid, it's just that he is caught up in the game and unable to think strategically. It happens all the time. It's ironic that Ravens coach Harbaugh was the opponent, as it was two years ago in the playoffs he rushed his field goal unit out for the final play, the rushed kicker misses the game winner. But the Ravens had a timeout to use, but this never occurred to a head coach caught up in the moment. A team could gain a nice advantage if they employed a strategy coach, someone up in the booth, isolated from the action who views the game from a strategic perspective. Obviously the head coach will have the final say, but the input would be valuable. If the Bills had a legitimate strategy coach I doubt they would be punting from the 36 down 14 points in the 4th quarter. I doubt that the challenges would be as badly mishandled as they have been so far this season. And a minor example from the Steelers game; very last play of first half, clock stopped and some uncertainty what Steelers would do. When it becomes apparent that they will try a Hail Mary, you can see the Bills players yelling and scrambling to set up defense against the Hail Mary. But the Bills at the time still had all three timeouts, which they would never use. The obvious decision is to use a timeout, avoid the scrambling and indecision, and properly set the defense. The reason this wasn't done is because this does not occur to a head coach caught up in the emotion of a game and lacking the perspective to think strategically.
l< j Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 You raise good points. Does the decision to go for 2 vs Carolina show good strategic thinking? kj
Bangarang Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me how Marrone feels and thinks?
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 Great post. I have thought the same thing for a while. A coach up in the box who is in charge of in game management makes a lot of sense. frankly, the new analytics guy might be perfect for the job.
Dawgg Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me how Marrone feels and thinks? If that is all you can gather from the insightful post, you are a lost cause
Big Turk Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 With the clock running New Orleans snapped the ball at 2:03 with 5 seconds on the play clock against the Falcons. It didn't matter in the end but they could have given Atlanta an extra 40 seconds if they managed to get the ball back
vegas55 Posted November 23, 2013 Author Posted November 23, 2013 Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me how Marrone feels and thinks? Obviously not, you can only judge by the actions and decisions that are made. In the Trestman example, it was obvious how bad his decision was. So he is either an idiot, or was caught up in the moment and not thinking strategically. I choose to believe that Trestman, Harbaugh and Marrone are good and smart coaches, and that bad game management results from getting caught up in the game, rather than these guys just being dumb.
Leelee Phoenix Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 Or, hire a coach that doesn't get "caught up in the game". They're out there! But, not likely to be within the NFL Ol' Boys Club I'd easily rather have a coach that makes sound game decisions instead of Mr. Rah Rah BS, but that's not the NFL way
The Cincinnati Kid Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 I am certain there are people on the staff of every coached football team from 7th grade up that tell the head coach the situations so that he doesn't miss something. If you think Tresman didn't know exactly what was going on then that explains a lot. Things you do not know about that situation: What is best strategy for our football team? Does our offense need those timeouts while moving down the field? How do the Ravens play a team with no time-outs vs a team with time outs? Where can we be most likely to succeed based on our scouting of the opponent? Is there a better opportunity for chunk yardage if we have time outs? If we have no time outs are the Ravens going to force us to check-down or force a throw into trouble? Its like MTV used to say: You think you know, but you have no idea.
Bangarang Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 If that is all you can gather from the insightful post, you are a lost cause Well, the entire post is about strategy and how Marrone is too emotionally invested in the game and his feelings and blah blah blah. Then he tries to make the point about having strictly a strategy coach as if that is a benefit. Regarding challenges, this strategy coach will have the same amount of time as anyone else to see the replays and decide if the challenge is worth pursuing. Sometimes you win challenges and sometimes you don't. Coaches make mistakes. It happens.
vegas55 Posted November 23, 2013 Author Posted November 23, 2013 I am certain there are people on the staff of every coached football team from 7th grade up that tell the head coach the situations so that he doesn't miss something. If you think Tresman didn't know exactly what was going on then that explains a lot. Things you do not know about that situation: What is best strategy for our football team? Does our offense need those timeouts while moving down the field? How do the Ravens play a team with no time-outs vs a team with time outs? Where can we be most likely to succeed based on our scouting of the opponent? Is there a better opportunity for chunk yardage if we have time outs? If we have no time outs are the Ravens going to force us to check-down or force a throw into trouble? Its like MTV used to say: You think you know, but you have no idea. With all due respect, you are completely wrong. Did you even see the sequence of plays? By Trestman not using his timeouts, he virtually guaranteed that his offense would have virtually no time to work with, in fact, it could have allowed the Ravens to score a game winning TD and leave zero time on the clock. All those things you mentioned are completely irrelevant if there is no time left on the clock for the offense to even run a play. Phil Simms knows a little bit about football, and he and every other NFL analyst who commented on this sequence of plays agreed that Trestman made a terrible decision. This is not rocket science, nor is it impossible for an observer to conclude that an NFL coach blew it. Happens all the time.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 The other issue. Who says the head coach should be in charge of in game management? In every other way, the head coach acts like a CEO and delegates to others. Why shouldn't it be the same with game day management? He should have more important things to handle during the game than running numbers and doing the math on whether to go for 2 or punt from the 40. He should have some general guidelines before the game and then let a strategy coach make all the game day calls. The head coach would basically only have veto power.
Offside Number 76 Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 The other issue. Who says the head coach should be in charge of in game management? In every other way, the head coach acts like a CEO and delegates to others. Why shouldn't it be the same with game day management? He should have more important things to handle during the game than running numbers and doing the math on whether to go for 2 or punt from the 40. He should have some general guidelines before the game and then let a strategy coach make all the game day calls. The head coach would basically only have veto power. I like it.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 24, 2013 Posted November 24, 2013 I like it. Thanks, man. When you become head coach, give me a ring. I will apply to be your strategy coach.
Thurmal34 Posted November 24, 2013 Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) Maybe you guys weren't listening when Brandon said "we are going to be an aggressive, attacking organization". Whether you tactically agree or not, the Bills told you strategically what they were going to do before they even hired a HC. What's with the surprise? Phil Simms knows a little bit about football, and he and every other NFL analyst who commented on this sequence of plays agreed that Trestman made a terrible decision. This is not rocket science, nor is it impossible for an observer to conclude that an NFL coach blew it. Did you hear Trestman explain it afterward? It was clear that he knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and he backed it up with percentages to support his decision making process based on down, distance, and probability. You sound like one of the scouts at the table in Moneyball. Decisions based on math and science trump decisions based on "3 yards and a cloud of dust" every time. Edited November 24, 2013 by Thurmal34
The Cincinnati Kid Posted November 24, 2013 Posted November 24, 2013 Maybe you guys weren't listening when Brandon said "we are going to be an aggressive, attacking organization". Whether you tactically agree or not, the Bills told you strategically what they were going to do before they even hired a HC. What's with the surprise? Did you hear Trestman explain it afterward? It was clear that he knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and he backed it up with percentages to support his decision making process based on down, distance, and probability. You sound like one of the scouts at the table in Moneyball. Decisions based on math and science trump decisions based on "3 yards and a cloud of dust" every time. Thank you.
vincec Posted November 24, 2013 Posted November 24, 2013 I think you make valid points, but if the head coach isn't going to be in charge of calling plays or managing game strategy, then what is he doing? Managing the game is one of the few direct responsibilities of the head coach on game day.
GunnerBill Posted November 24, 2013 Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) I totally agree with Thurmal34. Head Coaches make decisions that sometimes fans in the stadium and tv viewers don't agree with or think are obviously incorrect precisely because they are NOT caught up in the game day atmosphere. They know their percentages, they know their play book and they know the capability of their players better than anyone. So sometimes they will make calls that might appear odd. I said it the other day in another thread about Sean Payton with the Saints snapping the ball at 2.03.... he has Drew Brees, so that factors into his decisions on game management (he might not call the same plays in and around the 2minute warning if Rex Grossman for example was his Quarterback). I though Trestman's explanation made sense and I actually thought Doug Marrone's explanation on the punt at Pitt made sense too, even though I like everyone else watching on TV thought it looked crazy at the time. Edited November 24, 2013 by GunnerBill
Ronin Posted November 24, 2013 Posted November 24, 2013 But, but, but ... Marrone turned around SU's program. He must be good.
Ronin Posted November 24, 2013 Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) The other issue. Who says the head coach should be in charge of in game management? LOL You serious? I think you make valid points, but if the head coach isn't going to be in charge of calling plays or managing game strategy, then what is he doing? Managing the game is one of the few direct responsibilities of the head coach on game day. One would think that there would be a minimum criteria for people posting. Apparently not. LOL Edited November 24, 2013 by TaskersGhost
Recommended Posts