Greg Cosell: "Glennon is best QB in rookie class and it is not eve

[....lybob]

Glennon has nice height, some arm talent and probably a good head on his shoulders but he's slow as dirt and skinny, Bledsoe looked great for awhile .......for awhile - eventually defenses are going to see how well he handles press coverage and pressure coming from all directions at that time we will find out the quality of TBs Oline, whether their receivers can beat press coverage and how well physically and mentally Glennon handles pressure and getting hit.

[C.Biscuit97]

You can get with this:

 

 

Or you can get with that:

 

Edited November 22, 2013 by C.Biscuit97

[Orton's Arm]

 

 

The point is that people like yourself act like an "expert's" opinion should be taken as gospel. Watching a ton of tape and saying Nassib was the best QB in the draft is a huge error. I watched him at Cuse and thought that was a joke. it's one of the biggest reasons I like Marrone. Nassib was a scrub before Marrone and DM turned him into a draftable QB.

 

"Draft experts" have little accountability. Mike Mayock called Robert Ayers the best defensive player in his draft when he was a part time player at Tennessee. It's their job and I get that, but honestly, there are posters on this board who's opinion I put just as much stock in as Kiper or whoever. It's a big guessing game, especially with QB. I didn't hear an expert calling for Tony Romo to be drafted or Brady to go before the 6th.

 

Stop putting so much stock into what these guy say. I think one of the things you hold against EJ is he was drafted before the "experts" say he should be. God forbid if we drafted Russell Wilson before the experts said we should. And patience. 7 games doesn't not make a career.

 

> Watching a ton of tape and saying Nassib was the best QB in the draft is a huge error.

 

It's a little early to be coming to definitive conclusions. That said, the evidence I've seen thus far certainly supports the above statement.

 

> Nassib was a scrub before Marrone and DM turned him into a draftable QB.

 

There are two possibilities:

a) Nassib was a lousy QB and Marrone made him look better than he was. Much like Gailey did with Fitz.

b) Nassib had the potential to be a somewhat decent QB, but prior to Marrone had been victimized by bad coaching.

 

Of the two, a) seems more likely than b). Or maybe it's a little of both. Either way, Marrone's ability to get the most out of a QB is encouraging.

 

Shortly before the draft, Cosell put together a mock first round which did not include Nassib. The unstated implication was that, whatever he might have said previously, he no longer saw Nassib as a first round talent.

 

> I think one of the things you hold against EJ is he was drafted before the "experts" say he should be.

 

I don't want to turn this into an EJ Manuel discussion. (That's a topic for another thread.)

 

But putting the subject of Manuel aside, the experts have been right a lot too. They called the Donte Whitner pick a reach. They felt the Bills took John McCargo. I remember that back around 2000 or so, a football publication wrote, "[st. Louis Rams first round pick] Trung Canidate is a candidate for criticism." They correctly stated he should have been taken in the third round or later. Most experts felt that Bryant McKinnie--not Mike Williams--was the best available OT in the 2002 draft.

 

By no means am I suggesting the experts are perfect. Like you, I can't recall anyone jumping up on a desk and screaming to take Tom Brady before the sixth round. Same thing with Romo.

 

There have also been times when a player praised by many experts has fallen in the draft. When that's happened, that player has generally gone on to have a lackluster career.

 

The experts are far from godlike. But it is worth listening to the better ones. Not just for where they peg players, but why they rank them as they do.

[Saint Doug]

You can get with this:

 

 

Or you can get with that:

 

 

That's horrible. Glennon looks like a camel. Poor guy.

[C.Biscuit97]

> Watching a ton of tape and saying Nassib was the best QB in the draft is a huge error.

 

It's a little early to be coming to definitive conclusions. That said, the evidence I've seen thus far certainly supports the above statement.

 

> Nassib was a scrub before Marrone and DM turned him into a draftable QB.

 

There are two possibilities:

a) Nassib was a lousy QB and Marrone made him look better than he was. Much like Gailey did with Fitz.

b) Nassib had the potential to be a somewhat decent QB, but prior to Marrone had been victimized by bad coaching.

 

Of the two, a) seems more likely than b). Or maybe it's a little of both. Either way, Marrone's ability to get the most out of a QB is encouraging.

 

Shortly before the draft, Cosell put together a mock first round which did not include Nassib. The unstated implication was that, whatever he might have said previously, he no longer saw Nassib as a first round talent.

 

> I think one of the things you hold against EJ is he was drafted before the "experts" say he should be.

 

I don't want to turn this into an EJ Manuel discussion. (That's a topic for another thread.)

 

But putting the subject of Manuel aside, the experts have been right a lot too. They called the Donte Whitner pick a reach. They felt the Bills took John McCargo. I remember that back around 2000 or so, a football publication wrote, "[st. Louis Rams first round pick] Trung Canidate is a candidate for criticism." They correctly stated he should have been taken in the third round or later. Most experts felt that Bryant McKinnie--not Mike Williams--was the best available OT in the 2002 draft.

 

By no means am I suggesting the experts are perfect. Like you, I can't recall anyone jumping up on a desk and screaming to take Tom Brady before the sixth round. Same thing with Romo.

 

There have also been times when a player praised by many experts has fallen in the draft. When that's happened, that player has generally gone on to have a lackluster career.

 

The experts are far from godlike. But it is worth listening to the better ones. Not just for where they peg players, but why they rank them as they do.

 

Good response. I just am a big fan of patience, especially with young QBs. However, the key is to know when to pull the plug. I think after the 2nd year, you have an idea if the guy has potential. A guy like Blaine Gabbert is in his 2nd year but it seems pretty clear he doesn't have it. On the other hand, a guy like Tannehill has been pretty average but he deserves a 3rd year but if I was Miami, he'd be on a short leash.

 

That's horrible. Glennon looks like a camel. Poor guy.

 

Yeah, I feel bad. At the same time, he was a QB for a major college and now for Tampa Bay (best combo of hot, dumb chicks in the world). He definitely is out kicking his coverage in the lady department.

[YoloinOhio]

That's horrible. Glennon looks like a camel. Poor guy.

HAHAHAHA

[C.Biscuit97]

HAHAHAHA

 

This is could be an interesting bye week thread. Goofiest looking star QBs. If Glennon does become a star, he'd be the captain

[ax4782]

So, how a about a stat comparison to see whether or not Cosell's argument bears any weight? I went to NC State and watched Glennon play quite a bit (almost every week). I saw Manuel play a lot too. They both played very well in college, and Glennon played in the same system that Matt Ryan did when he was at BC (same coach and OC at NC State as Ryan had at BC). One thing that people forget is the complexity that was involved in the Florida State and NC State offenses. Their playbooks are much more complicated than even most in the NFL. Both played at a high level against very solid competition in college in the ACC, and each played in multiple bowl games.

 

So far, here's the side by side NFL Comparison:

 

Glennon

 

7 Games Played: 154-248 (62.1%) 6.19 YPA for 1535 yds. 11 TD 4 INT 1 FMBL QBR-45.5 Rating 87.7

 

Manuel

 

7 Games Played: 127-217 (58.5%) 6.38 YPA for 1385 yds. 8 TD 4 INT 2 FMBL QBR-44.8 Rating 82.1

 

 

Statistically, there is not a whole lot of distinction between Manuel and Glennon. Also, keep in mind that Buffalo has a stronger running game (2nd in the AFC and 7th Overall in the NFL) and that they run the ball far more than the Buccaneers who consistently find themselves playing from behind. Watching both Quarterbacks, there is a lot of positive in both of their games. Manuel has shown in more games than not (Carolina, Cleveland, New England and Jets #2) that he has the ability to be a very good pocket passer. He does not make a lot of "killer" mistakes (i.e. blatantly throwing interceptions). Mistakes happen, and he has made many. However, I do not think that Glennon has SO outplayed all of the other starting rookie Quarterbacks that were drafted with him to say that he is by far the best. We'll see how these two old foes look against one another in four weeks. That should give us a good comparative.

[....lybob]

A horse came into my bar and I said why the long face - but it wasn't a horse it was mike Glennon, weird

[K-9]

It's a mistake to drink K-9's Kool Aid. Both in general, and in this instance.

 

I'll grant that thus far, Nassib does not look like a guy who should have been taken in the first few rounds. There's a very good chance he'll never be a long-term starter; or at best will be a failed starter.

 

Where K-9 takes his big, big leap is to attempt to write off all the credibility of a highly respected draft analyst based on one seemingly bad prediction. He hasn't bothered to wait until, say, year two or three of Nassib's career to see how he will really do. Nor is there any indication he's looked into how far along in the QB evaluation process Cosell may have been before making his pro-Nassib statements. A lot of draft analysts change their opinions as they get deeper into breaking down film.

 

In the end, let's say that Nassib has the kind of career many expect him to have. And let's say that Cosell hadn't changed his pro-Nassib opinion after having broken down more film. If both those things prove true; then Cosell will have messed up. Just as Bill Walsh messed up when he recommended Trent Edwards.

 

I don't think you can write off a draft analyst's credibility based on one bad prediction. You have to look at the pattern: is he right more often than he is wrong? K-9 has not taken the time to do that with Cosell; and therefore is not in a position to make definitive statements about his credibility.

 

Wanna bet?

 

That aside, your hypocrisy concerning Nassib and Manuel is shocking.

 

But it's no surprise at all.

 

Kool-Aid, Kool-Aid tastes great.

Wish I had some.

Can't wait.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited November 22, 2013 by K-9

[Leelee Phoenix]

So would one bad game by Glennon, as he said, then all of a suddent not make him not the best QB in this rookie class? I feel like he was extremely strong in how he stated his opinion. He did not speak specifically to EJ or Geno, although Cowherd did not ask him any follow-up questions other than to sound stunned and say "really?!?"

Probably. Cosell has proven to be a dime-a-dozen reactionary guy in the media.

[Orton's Arm]

 

 

Good response. I just am a big fan of patience, especially with young QBs. However, the key is to know when to pull the plug. I think after the 2nd year, you have an idea if the guy has potential. A guy like Blaine Gabbert is in his 2nd year but it seems pretty clear he doesn't have it. On the other hand, a guy like Tannehill has been pretty average but he deserves a 3rd year but if I was Miami, he'd be on a short leash.

 

 

 

Yeah, I feel bad. At the same time, he was a QB for a major college and now for Tampa Bay (best combo of hot, dumb chicks in the world). He definitely is out kicking his coverage in the lady department.

 

> I just am a big fan of patience, especially with young QBs.

 

As am I.

 

> However, the key is to know when to pull the plug.

 

Also agreed. As an example, the Carolina Panthers drafted Jimmy Clausen's replacement one year after drafting Jimmy Clausen. Assuming Newton continues to be as productive in the future as he's been in the past, pulling the plug when they did was a very good move on the Panthers' part.

 

I don't think there's a default answer to the question, "How many years should you give a first or second round QB before you pull the plug?"

 

The answer to that question is going to vary based on why the QB was drafted in the first place, how much he's shown in practice and in games, whether he's making progress and learning, and the quality of the available replacement prospects. If your rookie QB just threw four interceptions in a game, were those INTs sprinkled in among other plays which made him look like a franchise QB? Or are this guy's top 50% plays like Trent Edwards' top 50%?

[C.Biscuit97]

> I just am a big fan of patience, especially with young QBs.

 

As am I.

 

> However, the key is to know when to pull the plug.

 

Also agreed. As an example, the Carolina Panthers drafted Jimmy Clausen's replacement one year after drafting Jimmy Clausen. Assuming Newton continues to be as productive in the future as he's been in the past, pulling the plug when they did was a very good move on the Panthers' part.

 

I don't think there's a default answer to the question, "How many years should you give a first or second round QB before you pull the plug?"

 

The answer to that question is going to vary based on why the QB was drafted in the first place, how much he's shown in practice and in games, whether he's making progress and learning, and the quality of the available replacement prospects. If your rookie QB just threw four interceptions in a game, were those INTs sprinkled in among other plays which made him look like a franchise QB? Or are this guy's top 50% plays like Trent Edwards' top 50%?

 

I agree with this. I just don't know why you're so hard on EJ. He missed 2 weeks of his first training camp and a month of his rookie season. Right now, he has a 2 td to 1 int ratio. He just played his best game without his top 2 wrs. He is miles about of how Trent (7 tds, 8 ints) and Losman (in his 2nd season he was beyond awful) have looked.

 

And if we drafted a rookie, you don't think they will struggle?

[Orton's Arm]

 

 

I agree with this. I just don't know why you're so hard on EJ. He missed 2 weeks of his first training camp and a month of his rookie season. Right now, he has a 2 td to 1 int ratio. He just played his best game without his top 2 wrs. He is miles about of how Trent (7 tds, 8 ints) and Losman (in his 2nd season he was beyond awful) have looked.

 

And if we drafted a rookie, you don't think they will struggle?

 

I don't want to go OT by discussing EJ, so all I'll say here is this: I wouldn't have drafted him in the first place.

 

That said, I have egg on my face already due to my endorsement of Rob Johnson and, later, Trent Edwards. If I'm wrong about EJ, the additional egg on my face probably won't make much difference.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Good response. I just am a big fan of patience, especially with young QBs. However, the key is to know when to pull the plug. I think after the 2nd year, you have an idea if the guy has potential. A guy like Blaine Gabbert is in his 2nd year but it seems pretty clear he doesn't have it. On the other hand, a guy like Tannehill has been pretty average but he deserves a 3rd year but if I was Miami, he'd be on a short leash.

 

 

 

Yeah, I feel bad. At the same time, he was a QB for a major college and now for Tampa Bay (best combo of hot, dumb chicks in the world). He definitely is out kicking his coverage in the lady department.

So what do you think right now about RGIII?

.

Edited November 22, 2013 by atlbillsfan1975

[Saint Doug]

 

 

Yeah, I feel bad. At the same time, he was a QB for a major college and now for Tampa Bay (best combo of hot, dumb chicks in the world). He definitely is out kicking his coverage in the lady department.

 

True. Probably has gotten more tail than all of us combined.

[iinii]

Cosell is in the opinion business. Cowherd doesn't book these guys for nuance.

Same with Cowherd. He bad mouthed the SEC until the third or fourth Championship in a row.

[Solomon Grundy]

Awesome, I feel vindicated Lol. Check my posts from the fall of 2012 and i was head of the Glennon bandwagon wanting the Bills to draft him early.

 

I don't think so Zow! I believe I was champion of the Glennon bandwagon, but happy we got EJ.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Actually, I wouldn't laugh. In 1980 and 1981, he ran it a lot. He didn't when he played for Washington, but he was older then.

 

http://www.pro-footb.../W/WillDo01.htm

 

Dave.

 

The poster twice posted about "Super Bowl-winning QBs" who were running QBs.

 

The argument he was trying to make was quite clear so let's not go off on a semantic tangent.

 

My point is very clear and it refutes his point: Doug Williams was not a running QB when he won the Super Bowl.

 

As your link shows quite clearly, Williams averaged less than 3 rushing attempts per game over his career and and only three-tenths of a rushing attempt (17 rushing attempts in 51 games) while in Washington.

[Rico]

You can get with this:

 

 

Or you can get with that:

 

Exactly, WTF.

 

I really don't care what the leader of your team looks like if he can win a SB for you, but come on man.

Maybe if he puts this on --->