San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 you guys wanna talk about these mobile quarterback, Marino had less than a hundred yards rushing for his career. let's see how many of those running quarterbacks won the Superbowl - Doug Williams, and maybe I'll give you a half a point for Steve Young. you guys wanna talk about these mobile quarterback, Marino had less than a hundred yards rushing for his career. let's see how many of those running quarterbacks won the Superbowl - Doug Williams, and maybe I'll give you a half a point for Steve Young. Doug Williams a running QB? :lol: :lol:
YoloinOhio Posted November 22, 2013 Author Posted November 22, 2013 I respect Greg Cosell, really, I do. But he's kinda like a book of Chinese philosophical sayings, you can read 4-5 interviews with him and find statements to support all different viewpoints. I also think he's a bit of a weathercock in what he'll come out and support. Early March before the draft, he published analysis of all the QB which was lukewarm about Nassib. Then later in March when there was all the talk about the Bills drafting Nassib in the 1st, he was quoted saying Nassib was the best QB in the draft. To me, Cosell is someone to take seriously when he's breaking down film on an individual. He'll see what's there and what's not there, accurately. But when he's comparing Joe Schmo to Fred Glow, I think other things factor into it. This was tweeted today, ironically, by Jason McIntire from The Big Lead: (all are tweets about Greg Cosell saying T Richardson was the best player in the 2012 draft ahead of Luck and RG3, plus saying he would have taken RG3 over Luck)Jason McIntyre @jasonrmcintyre 1h Oh RT @recordsANDradio: Ok then @gregcosell. https://twitter.com/commishonline/status/193386848842809344 … https://twitter.com/chriswesseling/status/182959865747079169 … https://twitter.com/livingcrimson/status/180043061668216833 … https://twitter.com/rosstuckernfl/status/180248014135365632 …
Orton's Arm Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 Because if you are saying he is by far the best qb but that can change due to one bad game, then he must not be by far the best. BTW, what is his track record on projecting talent? And who is he? I do not know a thing about the guy. Not saying that means anything, but i do follow the NFL and college football pretty closely. Greg Cosell is the nephew of iconic sports broadcaster Howard Cosell. Greg Cosell is considered one of the most knowledgeable football commentators around. See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Cosell
FluffHead Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 Wanny affect... even tho he coaches ST, just his presence....lol Except wanny coaches Tampa's ST, not Atlanta's
Big Turk Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 Glennon is slightly ahead of EJ in QBR 45.5 to 44.8, but I agree, from what I have seen he looks like an NFL QB with the throws he was making. If EJ can just "let it rip" like he did against the Jets and trust what he sees more, I think he will be a lot better than the "safe, cautious, don't turn the ball over" EJ we have seen in a lot of the games. I can understand it tho, he is a rookie, he doesn't want to be the reason the team loses because he throws careless interceptions or takes bad sacks/fumbles. That being said, there has to be a fine line between being careful with the football and being risk averse. Too often so far EJ has been risk averse...
Orton's Arm Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 Tampa Bay is currently 2-8. their first win of the season came two weeks ago against Miami 22-19 where Glennon was 11-21 for 139 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. Do the Bills have a WR as good as 6'5'' 230 lb Vincent Jackson? Tampa Bay is 30th in passing offense. The "Muscle Hamster" is out on IR, and so is his backup. But the 3rd string RB just ran for 30 rushes for 169 yards, 2 TD's, & WR Vincent Jackson 10 catches for 165 yards 1 TD against that Falcons defense. I like EJ far more, even when his two primary wideouts are out and injured. I live in the Tampa Bay area. The consensus here seems to be that age has caught up with Vincent Jackson; and that he's no longer the player he was. Thus far Glennon has played better than Barkley. I apologize to Glennon for having rated Barkley higher.
Thurman#1 Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) I have no clue who Cosell is. I am nit sure what track record he has with QB or player analysis. But to the OP, yes him sayin gone bad game could change everything makes him sound like a 'shock' type of guy. How can you say one guy is by far better, but give the disclaimer of a bad game changing everything. Honestly he does not sound very credible to me Cosell is a very very smart cookie, highly respected. He's a serious grinder of tape, he watches a ton of tape and is excellent at dissecting what he sees and noticing trends and scouting. Not perfect, of course, nobody is, but worth listening to. IMHO Glennon and EJ are the only two who have looked any good so far, and EJ has been less consistent. Edited November 22, 2013 by Thurman#1
GunnerBill Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 I think in terms of consistency Mike Glennon has been the best of the three so far. I have to say when I watched him a couple of times in college I thought his footwork was a bit of an issue, he seemed to almost trip himself up a bit when trying to avoid rushers - looked a bit uncoordinated. The two other things I had against him were that he had a tendency to trust his arm a little bit too much at times at the expense of a bit of accuracy and the fact that he didn't strike me as a guy with the intagibles I would look for (the second of those is always a subjective judgment call). I think he has probably done enough to earn himself the starters job in Tampa for next year (maybe dependant on Schiano's future I suppose) but there will be totally different pressure on his having to be "THE" guy from the start of a a season rather than coming in to a team and a season that was already basically tanking.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 Based on live game action, Glennon has looked better than any rookie QB. sounds about right.
1billsfan Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 Cosell is a very very smart cookie, highly respected. He's a serious grinder of tape, he watches a ton of tape and is excellent at dissecting what he sees and noticing trends and scouting. Not perfect, of course, nobody is, but worth listening to. IMHO Glennon and EJ are the only two who have looked any good so far, and EJ has been less consistent. He may have been respected before he said Ryan Nassib was the best QB in the draft and worthy of a high 1st round draft pick. But certainly not after that ridiculous statement. Because of how colossally stupid that opinion was, I view Cosell as a complete joke. If he were the Bills GM he would have pick Nassib in the first round at #8. I think there would be a not-so-kind thread about Greg Cosell if that had actually happened...LOL I was amazed at how many Bills fans here wanted Nassib. It seemed like there were about 20-30% in favor of it. I was shaking in my boots when our 1st rd picks came because the draft coverage pundits were STILL talking about Nassib as a possibility. He was drafted way too high in the 4th by the Giants where he couldn't even beat out Curtis Painter.
GunnerBill Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 It's strange isn't it when you think about it now but Smith, Manuel, Glennon, Wilson, Nassib, Barkley were all trumpeted at one time or another by one draft "expert" or another in the first 3-4 months of this year and the consensus seemed to be you picked your poison but there wasn't a whole lot between them, they all had some strengths and some weaknesses. If you compare what's happened since: Geno Smith - day 1 starter, played all 10 games - turnover machine. EJ Manuel - day 1 starter, missed 4 games injured, started 7 - been up and down. Mike Glennon - started the season as a back up, took the starting job early has now started the last 6/7 - pretty consistent. Matt Barkley - 3rd stringer at the Eagles, played one part came in and threw was it 4 picks? Ryan Nassib - 3rd stringer with the Giants - hasn't got near a field so far. Tyelr Wilson - Beaten out by an undrafted FA rookie for the 3rd stringer job. Cut. Put on practice squad and then promoted back to roster due to injury to starter.
dave mcbride Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) Doug Williams a running QB? :lol: :lol: Actually, I wouldn't laugh. In 1980 and 1981, he ran it a lot. He didn't when he played for Washington, but he was older then. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillDo01.htm Edited November 22, 2013 by dave mcbride
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 It's strange isn't it when you think about it now but Smith, Manuel, Glennon, Wilson, Nassib, Barkley were all trumpeted at one time or another by one draft "expert" or another in the first 3-4 months of this year and the consensus seemed to be you picked your poison but there wasn't a whole lot between them, they all had some strengths and some weaknesses. If you compare what's happened since: Geno Smith - day 1 starter, played all 10 games - turnover machine. EJ Manuel - day 1 starter, missed 4 games injured, started 7 - been up and down. Mike Glennon - started the season as a back up, took the starting job early has now started the last 6/7 - pretty consistent. Matt Barkley - 3rd stringer at the Eagles, played one part came in and threw was it 4 picks? Ryan Nassib - 3rd stringer with the Giants - hasn't got near a field so far. Tyelr Wilson - Beaten out by an undrafted FA rookie for the 3rd stringer job. Cut. Put on practice squad and then promoted back to roster due to injury to starter. So wait. Rookie QBs struggle in the NFL??? That's crazy talk. Last year was not the norm. Next year's rookie QB will struggle. Playing QB in the NFL is the hardest job in all of sports. Actually, I wouldn't laugh. In 1980 and 1981, he ran it a lot. He didn't when he played for Washington, but he was older then. http://www.pro-footb.../W/WillDo01.htm That's not really a lot. His highest total was 370 and then 209. Boomer Esiason had way more rushing yards but how many folks would call him a running QB? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EsiaBo00.htm I live in the Tampa Bay area. The consensus here seems to be that age has caught up with Vincent Jackson; and that he's no longer the player he was. Thus far Glennon has played better than Barkley. I apologize to Glennon for having rated Barkley higher. Well those folks are flat out crazy. He just had the best season of his career last year and is on pace for his second best season. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackVi00.htm He's a beast and EJ would really benefit from having a monster like that to just through jump balls to. That is the biggest weakness of our receiving core. We don't have any "just throw it up to them and let them go get it" guys.
GunnerBill Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 My point wasn't that rookies struggle more that the word was there wasn't much between the 6 of them and you have at one extreme Geno who has started every game and at the other end Tyler Wilson who has barely made it off a practice squad. That might be talent, it might be opportunity, it might be a bit of both.
Iraq Vet Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 EJ has a higher ceiling than all of them. Patience.
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 EJ has a higher ceiling than all of them. Patience. You get the hell out of here with that crap!!! Thank you very much for your service. Much respect.
Orton's Arm Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 He may have been respected before he said Ryan Nassib was the best QB in the draft and worthy of a high 1st round draft pick. But certainly not after that ridiculous statement. Because of how colossally stupid that opinion was, I view Cosell as a complete joke. If he were the Bills GM he would have pick Nassib in the first round at #8. I think there would be a not-so-kind thread about Greg Cosell if that had actually happened...LOL I was amazed at how many Bills fans here wanted Nassib. It seemed like there were about 20-30% in favor of it. I was shaking in my boots when our 1st rd picks came because the draft coverage pundits were STILL talking about Nassib as a possibility. He was drafted way too high in the 4th by the Giants where he couldn't even beat out Curtis Painter. It's a mistake to drink K-9's Kool Aid. Both in general, and in this instance. I'll grant that thus far, Nassib does not look like a guy who should have been taken in the first few rounds. There's a very good chance he'll never be a long-term starter; or at best will be a failed starter. Where K-9 takes his big, big leap is to attempt to write off all the credibility of a highly respected draft analyst based on one seemingly bad prediction. He hasn't bothered to wait until, say, year two or three of Nassib's career to see how he will really do. Nor is there any indication he's looked into how far along in the QB evaluation process Cosell may have been before making his pro-Nassib statements. A lot of draft analysts change their opinions as they get deeper into breaking down film. In the end, let's say that Nassib has the kind of career many expect him to have. And let's say that Cosell hadn't changed his pro-Nassib opinion after having broken down more film. If both those things prove true; then Cosell will have messed up. Just as Bill Walsh messed up when he recommended Trent Edwards. I don't think you can write off a draft analyst's credibility based on one bad prediction. You have to look at the pattern: is he right more often than he is wrong? K-9 has not taken the time to do that with Cosell; and therefore is not in a position to make definitive statements about his credibility.
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 It's a mistake to drink K-9's Kool Aid. Both in general, and in this instance. I'll grant that thus far, Nassib does not look like a guy who should have been taken in the first few rounds. There's a very good chance he'll never be a long-term starter; or at best will be a failed starter. Where K-9 takes his big, big leap is to attempt to write off all the credibility of a highly respected draft analyst based on one seemingly bad prediction. He hasn't bothered to wait until, say, year two or three of Nassib's career to see how he will really do. Nor is there any indication he's looked into how far along in the QB evaluation process Cosell may have been before making his pro-Nassib statements. A lot of draft analysts change their opinions as they get deeper into breaking down film. In the end, let's say that Nassib has the kind of career many expect him to have. And let's say that Cosell hadn't changed his pro-Nassib opinion after having broken down more film. If both those things prove true; then Cosell will have messed up. Just as Bill Walsh messed up when he recommended Trent Edwards. I don't think you can write off a draft analyst's credibility based on one bad prediction. You have to look at the pattern: is he right more often than he is wrong? K-9 has not taken the time to do that with Cosell; and therefore is not in a position to make definitive statements about his credibility. The point is that people like yourself act like an "expert's" opinion should be taken as gospel. Watching a ton of tape and saying Nassib was the best QB in the draft is a huge error. I watched him at Cuse and thought that was a joke. it's one of the biggest reasons I like Marrone. Nassib was a scrub before Marrone and DM turned him into a draftable QB. "Draft experts" have little accountability. Mike Mayock called Robert Ayers the best defensive player in his draft when he was a part time player at Tennessee. It's their job and I get that, but honestly, there are posters on this board who's opinion I put just as much stock in as Kiper or whoever. It's a big guessing game, especially with QB. I didn't hear an expert calling for Tony Romo to be drafted or Brady to go before the 6th. Stop putting so much stock into what these guy say. I think one of the things you hold against EJ is he was drafted before the "experts" say he should be. God forbid if we drafted Russell Wilson before the experts said we should. And patience. 7 games doesn't not make a career.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 Greg Cosell is the nephew of iconic sports broadcaster Howard Cosell. Greg Cosell is considered one of the most knowledgeable football commentators around. See http://en.m.wikipedi...iki/Greg_Cosell sarcasm? Sounds to me like this guy is about as good as some posters on here when it comes to QB evaluation.
FLFan Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 It's a mistake to drink K-9's Kool Aid. Both in general, and in this instance. I'll grant that thus far, Nassib does not look like a guy who should have been taken in the first few rounds. There's a very good chance he'll never be a long-term starter; or at best will be a failed starter. Where K-9 takes his big, big leap is to attempt to write off all the credibility of a highly respected draft analyst based on one seemingly bad prediction. He hasn't bothered to wait until, say, year two or three of Nassib's career to see how he will really do. Nor is there any indication he's looked into how far along in the QB evaluation process Cosell may have been before making his pro-Nassib statements. A lot of draft analysts change their opinions as they get deeper into breaking down film. In the end, let's say that Nassib has the kind of career many expect him to have. And let's say that Cosell hadn't changed his pro-Nassib opinion after having broken down more film. If both those things prove true; then Cosell will have messed up. Just as Bill Walsh messed up when he recommended Trent Edwards. I don't think you can write off a draft analyst's credibility based on one bad prediction. You have to look at the pattern: is he right more often than he is wrong? K-9 has not taken the time to do that with Cosell; and therefore is not in a position to make definitive statements about his credibility. I think he hurts his credibility by making ridiculous statements like the one that started this thread.
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