FLFan Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK YTD stats at the link above. I think to say that Glennon has looked the best and "its not even close" is a bit of an overstatement to say the least. The stats are very close. EJ has a higher Yds/attempt, Glennon has many more throws, thus more yards, more TDs; slightly higher completion %; same interceptions and sacks. The ratings are comparable at least. EJ is 3 and 3 in games he started and finished; Glennon is 2 and 5. Glennon has started 7 games in a row, while EJ had a break in his season and had to restart. I would say any reasonable person would say the jury is still out on the question. That said, Glennon has looked better than I expected. In the limited amount I saw of him in college I thought he looked stiff and un-athletic, and bad when flushed out of the pocket. Bledsoe-esque is the term that comes to mind. I am surprised at how good he has looked, but that is hardly cause for declaring him the best rookie in the class. People were ready to bestow that on Geno Smith after the first Bills game if I recall. It seems Cosel is gushing to defend his own pre-draft evaluations.
YoloinOhio Posted November 21, 2013 Author Posted November 21, 2013 http://www.nfl.com/s...ory=QUARTERBACK YTD stats at the link above. I think to say that Glennon has looked the best and "its not even close" is a bit of an overstatement to say the least. The stats are very close. EJ has a higher Yds/attempt, Glennon has many more throws, thus more yards, more TDs; slightly higher completion %; same interceptions and sacks. The ratings are comparable at least. EJ is 3 and 3 in games he started and finished; Glennon is 2 and 5. Glennon has started 7 games in a row, while EJ had a break in his season and had to restart. I would say any reasonable person would say the jury is still out on the question. That said, Glennon has looked better than I expected. In the limited amount I saw of him in college I thought he looked stiff and un-athletic, and bad when flushed out of the pocket. Bledsoe-esque is the term that comes to mind. I am surprised at how good he has looked, but that is hardly cause for declaring him the best rookie in the class. People were ready to bestow that on Geno Smith after the first Bills game if I recall. It seems Cosel is gushing to defend his own pre-draft evaluations. That is a good balanced assessment. Will be very interesting to compare all three at the end of the season.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 i dont see why a "so far hes been the best, but with a rookie that can change quick" assessment isnt credible. Because if you are saying he is by far the best qb but that can change due to one bad game, then he must not be by far the best. BTW, what is his track record on projecting talent? And who is he? I do not know a thing about the guy. Not saying that means anything, but i do follow the NFL and college football pretty closely.
YoloinOhio Posted November 21, 2013 Author Posted November 21, 2013 Because if you are saying he is by far the best qb but that can change due to one bad game, then he must not be by far the best. BTW, what is his track record on projecting talent? And who is he? I do not know a thing about the guy. Not saying that means anything, but i do follow the NFL and college football pretty closely. This is from his Wikipedia page (he probably wrote it himself):Greg Cosell is an NFL analyst and a senior producer at NFL Films. He is the nephew of iconic broadcaster Howard Cosell. Cosell is widely regarded by NFL insiders as one of the most knowledgeable and trusted football analysts
K-9 Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 Because if you are saying he is by far the best qb but that can change due to one bad game, then he must not be by far the best. BTW, what is his track record on projecting talent? And who is he? I do not know a thing about the guy. Not saying that means anything, but i do follow the NFL and college football pretty closely. As I said up thread, he said Ryan Nassib was the best QB entering this year's draft. That's pretty much all you need to know about his QB evaluation skills. GO BILLS!!!
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 To be fair, the prognosticators would have to detract statements for about 200 guys each draft. It's not a science, as much as they try to pitch themselves as experts. It is a science... Just not figured out yet.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 you guys wanna talk about these mobile quarterback, Marino had less than a hundred yards rushing for his career. let's see how many of those running quarterbacks won the Superbowl - Doug Williams, and maybe I'll give you a half a point for Steve Young. It's odd that you would use Marino as the example. I have as many rings as he does. Also, the game was different 20 years ago. I might have even agreed then. I would say Ben, Elway, Young, and Rodgers all qualify as mobile. The dual threat QB is relatively new however and is a response to all of the complicated blitz schemes. The game is constantly evolving and there is a reason that these guys started popping up. The whole concept of the zone read is to basically isolate someone and then decide to keep it or hand it off based on which man he takes. It is a numbers thing.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 As I said up thread, he said Ryan Nassib was the best QB entering this year's draft. That's pretty much all you need to know about his QB evaluation skills. GO BILLS!!! This is the old formula. Make some outrageous claim... If you're wrong let everyone forget or waffle what you meant, while if you're right you get to point back at the statement and claim your I brilliant foresight
YoloinOhio Posted November 21, 2013 Author Posted November 21, 2013 It's odd that you would use Marino as the example. I have as many rings as he does. Also, the game was different 20 years ago. I might have even agreed then. I would say Ben, Elway, Young, and Rodgers all qualify as mobile. The dual threat QB is relatively new however and is a response to all of the complicated blitz schemes. The game is constantly evolving and there is a reason that these guys started popping up. The whole concept of the zone read is to basically isolate someone and then decide to keep it or hand it off based on which man he takes. It is a numbers thing. Luck too... his combine #s were similar to Cam Newton, I think he ran a 4.58 if I remember correctly and can escape and make plays outside the pocket as well as having great pocket presence. I think you can get by without it (i.e. Brady) but you better be a pretty darn perfect passer.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 I'll get right on that Oh, man--you stole my line!!
chaccof Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 As an NC State alumni I got to watch Glennon a fair amount. Of course he followed Russell Wilson so he looked like he was locked in cement most of the time. He's clearly not a running type QB. He did have reasonably good "pocket presence" and as someone else noted, he seems to know when to move up/sideways to avoid the sack. He's got a cannon for an arm with decent accuracy. Generally though NCSU fans weren't high on him, but I think a lot of that was because of what we had with Russell Wilson.....
NoSaint Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 It's odd that you would use Marino as the example. I have as many rings as he does. Also, the game was different 20 years ago. I might have even agreed then. I would say Ben, Elway, Young, and Rodgers all qualify as mobile. The dual threat QB is relatively new however and is a response to all of the complicated blitz schemes. The game is constantly evolving and there is a reason that these guys started popping up. The whole concept of the zone read is to basically isolate someone and then decide to keep it or hand it off based on which man he takes. It is a numbers thing. i think sometimes the idea of mobile vs a true dual threat can be a bit muddied too. there are quite a few qbs that arent very athletic but move well enough in the pocket to get by even if they arent scrambling ala cam newton. honestly, almost anyone playing qb is athletic enough to slide around and buy time which frustrates me when people talk about the statue qb - unless he simply has poor presence, i dont know that he really exists on the level many portray athletically. its a nice perk to steal a few extra first downs with your legs but the arm will always be far harder to defend.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 In the last 3 games, Glennon's rating has been 113.9 - 8.0 ypa, 72 percent completion rate, and a 5-1 TD/INT ratio. Um, how is this even debateable? As of right now, it seems like Cosell is absolutely right. I only saw Glennon against Miami, and, to my eye, he looked really good.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 i think sometimes the idea of mobile vs a true dual threat can be a bit muddied too. there are quite a few qbs that arent very athletic but move well enough in the pocket to get by even if they arent scrambling ala cam newton. honestly, almost anyone playing qb is athletic enough to slide around and buy time which frustrates me when people talk about the statue qb - unless he simply has poor presence, i dont know that he really exists on the level many portray athletically. its a nice perk to steal a few extra first downs with your legs but the arm will always be far harder to defend. Agreed, there may not be 3 better guys at moving within the pocket than Brady, Brees and Peyton. Marino was great at that as well. Drew Bledsoe was the opposite. A guy like Bledsoe could NEVER have cut it in today's NFL.
thewildrabbit Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 Wanny affect... even tho he coaches ST, just his presence....lol I almost couldn't believe anyone could be worse then Jauron and his tampax 2, along with selection of Maybin. But, then along came George Edwards for two years of suckatude, and if that wasn't bad enough...Dave Wannstooge managed to set an NFL first in the entire 97 year history of the NFL by allowing a 300 yard passer and 300 yards rushing in the same game. Conservative 49er QB Alex Smith broke a passing record against wannys defense that neither HoF Steve Young or HoF Joe Montana ever did
Pirate Angel Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 Who's his competition? EJ who has been out most of the season and Geno Smith? Not exactly class of 83
Kirby Jackson Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 Who's his competition? EJ who has been out most of the season and Geno Smith? Not exactly class of 83 Matt McGloin?
YoloinOhio Posted November 21, 2013 Author Posted November 21, 2013 I can't figure out if this board is upset that he said his or more upset that what he said is accurate. Not all that accurate to say "it isn't close" - b/c of that pesky W/L thing. Not saying EJ has been better... but he does have a better record so maybe it is a little bit close.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Greg Cosell was on Colin Cowherd's show today and said Mike Glennon is by far the best rookie QB in this class and it wasn't close. He said it was based on his QB attributes. He is far advanced in the pocket - moreso than RGIII now in his 2nd year. Anticipation, timing and accuracy. Said of course it could all change and he could have a bad game anytime, has only started 6 or 7. So would one bad game by Glennon, as he said, then all of a suddent not make him not the best QB in this rookie class? I feel like he was extremely strong in how he stated his opinion. He did not speak specifically to EJ or Geno, although Cowherd did not ask him any follow-up questions other than to sound stunned and say "really?!?" I am not surprised by Cosell's comments as he saw EJ as a 4th rd talent prior to the draft. I believe he had Barkley in the 4th and then said he though EJ would not be taken before him. That said, he also said he thought Nassib would go the highest of all of them, if I recall correctly. I respect Greg Cosell, really, I do. But he's kinda like a book of Chinese philosophical sayings, you can read 4-5 interviews with him and find statements to support all different viewpoints. I also think he's a bit of a weathercock in what he'll come out and support. Early March before the draft, he published analysis of all the QB which was lukewarm about Nassib. Then later in March when there was all the talk about the Bills drafting Nassib in the 1st, he was quoted saying Nassib was the best QB in the draft. To me, Cosell is someone to take seriously when he's breaking down film on an individual. He'll see what's there and what's not there, accurately. But when he's comparing Joe Schmo to Fred Glow, I think other things factor into it. Edited November 21, 2013 by Hopeful
Agent 91 Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 you guys wanna talk about these mobile quarterback, Marino had less than a hundred yards rushing for his career. let's see how many of those running quarterbacks won the Superbowl - Doug Williams, and maybe I'll give you a half a point for Steve Young. No one said scrambling qbs. They are refering to the opposite of statue. Glennon isn't really a guy who buys time in the pocket according to the masses. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. Just saying there is a difference between Drew Brees and Glennon in terms of escapability (mobility). You could argue Ben Rothelisberger and Aaron Rodgers are both really mobile guys. Russel Wilson could win one too Way better examples Captain. Thank you for helping out when I had a brain fart.
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