New GM, New Philosophy

[oman128]

They're bringing in talent every single week, to compete with the players that they have and they're cutting the player that doesn't measure up.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

I'm not even sure there's more now. During the Gailey/Nix years, it seemed like the Bills signed or cut a practice squad guy almost every week. If there is an increase this year, it's not a huge one.

 

Biggest diff I see is the free agents are to get a deeper bench not fix a problem with the starting 22

[San Jose Bills Fan]

You can sort Bills transactions by year here:

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/team/transactions.html

[BillsVet]

They're bringing in talent every single week, to compete with the players that they have and they're cutting the player that doesn't measure up.

 

Talent or bodies? Signing guys from other teams' practice squads, particularly from a team with a GM like Ozzie Newsome is not something I'd highlight too quickly.

 

The Bills roster remains in flux because they're rebuilding. And it's ironic this team chooses to look for bigger offensive lineman, a trend which goes directly against the rest of the league as teams are looking for more mobile guards who can pass protect, not maulers.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Talent or bodies? Signing guys from other teams' practice squads, particularly from a team with a GM like Ozzie Newsome is not something I'd highlight too quickly.

 

The Bills roster remains in flux because they're rebuilding. And it's ironic this team chooses to look for bigger offensive lineman, a trend which goes directly against the rest of the league as teams are looking for more mobile guards who can pass protect, not maulers.

 

Is that a fact or just your opinion?

[NoSaint]

 

 

Is that a fact or just your opinion?

 

Generally speaking I'd say its true- but that gives us our pick of the best big bodies and they will be going against smaller guys that (if they get their hands on them) they should be able to move.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Generally speaking I'd say its true- but that gives us our pick of the best big bodies and they will be going against smaller guys that (if they get their hands on them) they should be able to move.

 

Well I don't think it's true and I'd like to hear what Billsvet has to say.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Well I don't think it's true and I'd like to hear what Billsvet has to say.

 

Spread offenses and more complex rushing schemes lend themselves to more athletic mobile guys up front. It's less of a line up and out muscle then league. That's not to say its a total domination of philosophy - but I'd say just like teams go back and forth 34 to 43 on defense, we are trending smaller faster instead of bigger stronger as a broad strokes over generalization

[BillsVet]

Is that a fact or just your opinion?

 

We've had this discussion before and I know you'll disagree with me. Recent drafts show teams are valuing OL, particularly guards, who are more on the nimble side and less the mauling types who aren't as mobile. Take the first round tackles selected in 2012 and 2013: Fisher, Joeckel, Johnson, Fluker, Pugh, M. Kalil, and Reiff. 6 of those 7 are guys under 320 with Fluker the lone exception and he's strictly a RT type.

 

Or the guards in those 2 drafts: Cooper, Warmack., K. Long, DeCastro, and Zeitler. So, out of 12 first round OT's or G's, 10 are under 320 (Fluker and Warmack). I think that's a trend.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

We've had this discussion before and I know you'll disagree with me. Recent drafts show teams are valuing OL, particularly guards, who are more on the nimble side and less the mauling types who aren't as mobile. Take the first round tackles selected in 2012 and 2013: Fisher, Joeckel, Johnson, Fluker, Pugh, M. Kalil, and Reiff. 6 of those 7 are guys under 320 with Fluker the lone exception and he's strictly a RT type.

 

Or the guards in those 2 drafts: Cooper, Warmack., K. Long, DeCastro, and Zeitler. So, out of 12 first round OT's or G's, 10 are under 320 (Fluker and Warmack). I think that's a trend.

 

There's really no point in either of us trying to build an empirical argument.

 

How do those players compare to players in the previous drafts?

 

Will those players not gain weight as they become established NFL players?

 

Is it not also true that some teams still value larger players?

 

Is it not true that some teams believe in drafting tackles and moving them to guard?

 

Is there compelling statistical evidence that shows that NFL linemen are getting smaller?

 

How does your sample size of players compare to the 275-300 other offensive linemen in the league?

 

Here's my point:

 

Talent or bodies? Signing guys from other teams' practice squads, particularly from a team with a GM like Ozzie Newsome is not something I'd highlight too quickly.

 

The Bills roster remains in flux because they're rebuilding. And it's ironic this team chooses to look for bigger offensive lineman, a trend which goes directly against the rest of the league as teams are looking for more mobile guards who can pass protect, not maulers.

 

This post makes two points and both of them are needlessly and subjectively negative.

[Leelee Phoenix]

I wouldn't call this a new philosophy. I think it's just being willing to not hang on to your guys forever, which is kinda easy at this point since many weren't even Whaley's guys.

 

But, the Fitz situation ruins any positivity towards Whaley for now.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I wouldn't call this a new philosophy. I think it's just being willing to not hang on to your guys forever, which is kinda easy at this point since many weren't even Whaley's guys.

 

But, the Fitz situation ruins any positivity towards Whaley for now.

 

Not sure what you mean by "the Fitz situation" but by some accounts, Fitz was so pissed off at Nix about the Dominick conversation that there was no way at all that he was going to remain with the Bills.

 

I won't hold "losing" Fitz against Whaley but I'll certainly question the Kolb signing.

[PromoTheRobot]

Biggest change is the last two drafts have been so good that the team if finally building a strong core of players that should be around for a while. Really want Byrd signed long term.

Signing CJ Spiller, I believe, is a factor in re-signing Byrd. Last season it looked like Spiller would earn a huge deal. Now, not so much. Might make signing Byrd easier.

 

PTR

[chris heff]

 

 

We've had this discussion before and I know you'll disagree with me. Recent drafts show teams are valuing OL, particularly guards, who are more on the nimble side and less the mauling types who aren't as mobile. Take the first round tackles selected in 2012 and 2013: Fisher, Joeckel, Johnson, Fluker, Pugh, M. Kalil, and Reiff. 6 of those 7 are guys under 320 with Fluker the lone exception and he's strictly a RT type.

 

Or the guards in those 2 drafts: Cooper, Warmack., K. Long, DeCastro, and Zeitler. So, out of 12 first round OT's or G's, 10 are under 320 (Fluker and Warmack). I think that's a trend.

The size of offensive linemen? This may now rate as the most esoteric thread to date.

[BillsVet]

This post makes two points and both of them are needlessly and subjectively negative.

 

It's hard to discuss a team that's 19-40 in their past 3+ seasons and be sunshine and rose petals. My point with OL is that there is a demand for lighter, more mobile types. A case in point is guys like Pugh and Kyle Long who weren't anticipated as first rounders yet they were selected there. I focus on first rounders because it means a team thinks they were worth using most likely their first pick in a draft. You can disagree, but it goes against the trend.

 

Instead, I see a conflation of the argument in order to suppress the argument entirely. There really is no debate, just individuals who aren't willing to go against what the team is doing because they're fans. It's not illegal to be both a fan and objective.

[Dibs]

We've had this discussion before and I know you'll disagree with me. Recent drafts show teams are valuing OL, particularly guards, who are more on the nimble side and less the mauling types who aren't as mobile. Take the first round tackles selected in 2012 and 2013: Fisher, Joeckel, Johnson, Fluker, Pugh, M. Kalil, and Reiff. 6 of those 7 are guys under 320 with Fluker the lone exception and he's strictly a RT type.

 

Or the guards in those 2 drafts: Cooper, Warmack., K. Long, DeCastro, and Zeitler. So, out of 12 first round OT's or G's, 10 are under 320 (Fluker and Warmack). I think that's a trend.

 

If Unga loses 1lb he'd be under 320lbs. Just saying.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

It's hard to discuss a team that's 19-40 in their past 3+ seasons and be sunshine and rose petals. My point with OL is that there is a demand for lighter, more mobile types. A case in point is guys like Pugh and Kyle Long who weren't anticipated as first rounders yet they were selected there. I focus on first rounders because it means a team thinks they were worth using most likely their first pick in a draft. You can disagree, but it goes against the trend.

 

Instead, I see a conflation of the argument in order to suppress the argument entirely. There really is no debate, just individuals who aren't willing to go against what the team is doing because they're fans. It's not illegal to be both a fan and objective.

 

Ridiculous rhetoric.

 

"Conflate?"

 

LOL. You love that one.

 

Long is a 6'6" 313 pound guard who has a large frame.

 

Not only is he a big body for a guard but he will gain weight as do nearly all offensive linemen who are NFL rookies.

 

Pugh is a player that pro scouts agreed needed to get bigger and stronger.

 

You'll never find lighter O-linemen than those that were recently drafted. Like players at all position groups, they get bigger and stronger as time passes.

 

Back to the real discussion, you hold the Bills record of failure against them in a way that prevents you from being objective about the present.

 

Your inability to be objective and your eagerness to criticize any and all aspect of the organization is well-documented.

 

Now you're criticizing them for drafting big linemen instead of criticizing whether the player can play.

[BADOLBILZ]

Ridiculous rhetoric.

 

"Conflate?"

 

LOL. You love that one.

 

Long is a 6'6" 313 pound guard who has a large frame.

 

Not only is he a big body for a guard but he will gain weight as do nearly all offensive linemen who are NFL rookies.

 

Pugh is a player that pro scouts agreed needed to get bigger and stronger.

 

You'll never find lighter O-linemen than those that were recently drafted. Like players at all position groups, they get bigger and stronger as time passes.

 

Back to the real discussion, you hold the Bills record of failure against them in a way that prevents you from being objective about the present.

 

Your inability to be objective and your eagerness to criticize any and all aspect of the organization is well-documented.

 

Now you're criticizing them for drafting big linemen instead of criticizing whether the player can play.

 

While I am not sure I believe that the league is looking for smaller lineman......it is important to note one thing about BillsVet:

 

He is usually right.

 

Contrast that with many of the people who get upset with the things he posts:

 

They are usually wrong.

 

Given those facts.........I do not understand the outrage at his posts.

 

The Bills organization are the one's with something to prove, not their detractors. Their detractors have been right for 14 straight years.

 

y'all are the definition of "haters gonna' hate".

[San Jose Bills Fan]

While I am not sure I believe that the league is looking for smaller lineman......it is important to note one thing about BillsVet:

 

He is usually right.

 

Contrast that with many of the people who get upset with the things he posts:

 

They are usually wrong.

 

Given those facts.........I do not understand the outrage at his posts.

 

The Bills organization are the one's with something to prove, not their detractors. Their detractors have been right for 14 straight years.

 

y'all are the definition of "haters gonna' hate".

 

You mean the "shooting fish in a barrel" crowd?

 

BillsVet is no more accurate a prognosticator than any of the solid posters on this board.

 

Yes I said he's a solid poster.

 

And I can name about 50 solid posters on either side of "the aisle."

 

Don't pretend that being a Bills pessimist or optimist has any correlation with having accurate football takes.

[KGUNBILLS]

Signing CJ Spiller, I believe, is a factor in re-signing Byrd. Last season it looked like Spiller would earn a huge deal. Now, not so much. Might make signing Byrd easier.

 

PTR

I am wondering if spiller will even be on the roster next year. I would think that he would make an excellent kick return guy on the special teams. That might afford him the time to really watch what the defenses of other teams present at different times. A lot of the times there are holes there for him, but he just isn't seeing the gaps this year. Might be the result of too much pressure to perform, or follow last years numbers.