bbb Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 During that game, I remember asking a buddy of mine (sarcastically) whether the NFL had suspended pass interference calls. It was completely ridiculous. It really was. They reinstated the rule later in the 2nd half, once the game was out of hand.........The Redskins gameplan was to blast our receivers before the ball got there, and keep doing it as long as they're not calling it. How that game was considered a fair blow out, I'm not sure. We were the vaunted K Gun, but when your receivers don't have a fair shot at making receptions, what good does that do you. As for Andre, not going over the middle, what a joke that notion is.........If I picture an Andre typical catch, it's him going straight across the middle, catching it with his hands, while his body stays fully in stride. He was amazing at that.
dascottbills28 Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 I don't remember one good goddam thing about that Steelers game related to Andre Reed "quitting." I do remember Bruce not getting a flu shot, and I remember Kelly breaking his collarbone. But Andre quitting? As an earlier poster said, Andre was nowhere near 100% all year long. Who the hell is Mike Silver anyway? I dont remember seeing much of the game. Could you upload it onto youtube if you have it. If not, do you know where I could find it?
NoSaint Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 Seriously though when it comes to borderline HOFers doesn't it seem like those that are still in the limelight make it more often. ESPN/NFL Network analysts seem to get a bump. I'm surprised Carter's off the field troubles weren't even MENTIONED when he was up for election and then when he made it in. Whether it is that they are in the public eye or buddy buddy with the election comittee it is at least a strange coincidence. As an aside - it is very difficult finding out who sits on this comittee. Anyone better at the internet than me that can find a list? It would be interesting to say the least. its a member of the local press in each city, and a handful of at large members of the media. googling "nfl hall of fame committee members" yields the following list: http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.aspx And im not sure where you are getting that no one mentioned CC's issues.
Buftex Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 Yes Apparently I'm nobody Seriously though when it comes to borderline HOFers doesn't it seem like those that are still in the limelight make it more often. ESPN/NFL Network analysts seem to get a bump. I'm surprised Carter's off the field troubles weren't even MENTIONED when he was up for election and then when he made it in. Whether it is that they are in the public eye or buddy buddy with the election comittee it is at least a strange coincidence. As an aside - it is very difficult finding out who sits on this comittee. Anyone better at the internet than me that can find a list? It would be interesting to say the least. You many be right...but I have to disagree about CC's off the field woes...it seems like it was all I heard about before, and after his induction...they guy is the self proclaimed poster-boy for "turning your life around"...and he seems to mention it every chance he gets...
Tiberius Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 During that game, I remember asking a buddy of mine (sarcastically) whether the NFL had suspended pass interference calls. It was completely ridiculous. The Redskins game? I remember the play right before the end of the half Reed was totally blasted on third down ending a drive and Reed slammed his helment down--15 yard penalty out of fg range, then Kelly tossed an interception on first play of second half and it was 24 - 0 skins.
BobbyC81 Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 I remember him making his living going over the middle, and making huge plays on short crossing patterns all season long, in the most dangerous areas of the field. I'm watching Reed touchdowns and it's so great it sickens me to think of how anemic the offense has been since. It just looks so easy... I also remember reading how Reed became so good with YAC. Apparently earlier in his career he did a lot of dancing and wasn't aggressive after he got the ball. So, the Bills coaches setup like a mini tunnel for him to practice running through with the ball. After that, that's the way he ran, right thru many attempted arm tackles. The current Bills staff may want to consider setting up something similar for Spiller.
BRH Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 Jerry Rice seems to think Andre Reed belongs in the HOF....what would he know? http://www.nfl.com/v...iver-candidates Yes, I have heard this misconception repeated numerous times over the last few years, that Andre Reed couldn't/wouldn't "go over the middle"..which only proves to me that his detractors either really didn't see him play very much, didn't know what they were watching, or just don't know wtf they are talking about... Watch the very last catch in that montage - at around 14:10 or so - and then try to tell me that Reed didn't go over the middle with the best of them. I agree, people who say that have no idea what they're talking about. That video was a joy to watch.
Buftex Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) I also remember reading how Reed became so good with YAC. Apparently earlier in his career he did a lot of dancing and wasn't aggressive after he got the ball. So, the Bills coaches setup like a mini tunnel for him to practice running through with the ball. After that, that's the way he ran, right thru many attempted arm tackles. The current Bills staff may want to consider setting up something similar for Spiller. Reed was the "king of the YAC". He was the first player I remember the term "yards after catch" was strongly associated with....it may have even been Dierfdorf on MNF who started calling it "YAC", while talking about Reeds abilitiy to break short passes into long gains. Edited November 22, 2013 by Buftex
Storm Front Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 Man, watching the video posted here and the one from the Flutie thread last week sure makes you miss watching a competent QB toss the ball around. What have we been watching the past 13 years! Reed was awesome. I remember the last game I went to with my dad where Reed got knocked out of the game with an injury. It was a cold and windy December game against the Jets in '98 or '99 maybe. When Reed got knocked out we both felt like the Bills wouldn't come back. Reed was the master of big plays when we needed them. He single-handedly took over the '93 Oilers playoff game and helped us get back to the Super Bowl that year.
Buftex Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) I never blamed him for that. I was so incensed by what was going on, I would have done the same thing. Nobody talks about what the refs did in Super Bowl 26. Yeah..I can't remember if it was Parcells or Belichik who once said something about the Giants plan in SB25 was to take Andre Reed out of the offesne, at all costs...they seemed to think that Kelly to Reed had a greater chance of beating them than Thurman did on the ground....and the Bills O-line was pretty damn great then, so pressuring Kelly wouldn't be easy...whichever guy it was (I think it was Parcells) said they were determined to "beat Andre Reed up" in that game...and it worked. The Redskins did much the same the following year...defenders were actually afforded the luxury of playing defense back in those days. Reed was gang tackled anytime he came near the ball...whether he caught the ball or not, he was going to feel it. As I recall, before Jerry Rice played in the Super Bowl as a Raider, Reed led the league in pretty much all Super Bowl passing categories...sure, he played in 4 of them, so he was bound to accumulate numbers, but he wasn't invisible in those games. Edited November 22, 2013 by Buftex
Buftex Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 I don't remember one good goddam thing about that Steelers game related to Andre Reed "quitting." I do remember Bruce not getting a flu shot, and I remember Kelly breaking his collarbone. But Andre quitting? As an earlier poster said, Andre was nowhere near 100% all year long. Who the hell is Mike Silver anyway? The more I jar my brain on this, I do seem to remember a little controversy about Reeds' performance in that game...I think it was more vocal fans (pre-internet) thinking he was dogging it down the stretch. I seem to remember Kelly, or maybe it was Van Pelt, throwing a int, and there was a feeling that Reed didin't put much effort into preventing it...it is all staring to come back to me...I also do remember, he was legitiamtely hurt going into that game as well...
Solomon Grundy Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 This is my view on Andre Reed's HoF status: Individually, he's not a Hall of Famer. It's not that big of a travesty that he's not in. HOWEVER, as part of the Buffalo Bills team that went to the Superbowl an unprecedented FOUR times in a row, he is a Hall of Famer. He was one of the "big four" players, and should be in because of the part he played in that. DStebb, how can you make such a statement? Andre was consistently compared to Jerry Rice during their playing careers. He was probably the best RAC receiver not named Rice. Proof of his significance was the defensive game plan employed in Super Bowl XXV. Parcells goal was to stop Reed, period! This allowed Thurman to do what he did. Unfortunately it took the Bills to late to figure it out.
2003Contenders Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 I remember it all like it was yesterday. A few points of reference... 1. 1995 was a contract year for Andre. 2. During the preseason, he made it plain that he was unhappy with the front office for not signing him long-term and entering the season with that final year remaining. 3. As someone mentioned, he hurt his hammy rather significantly early in the season and sat out much of the rest of the year. Some insiders questioned whether he was doing that to avoid making the injury worse and potentially hurting his chances of getting a big deal upon hitting free agency. 4. The defense was very good that year, and Kelly had one of his best seasons (some thought he deserved consideration as MVP, given his surrounding talent at WR with Reed out most of the year). The Bills managed to win the division and hosted the Dolphins in the Wildcard round. The Bills set a then playoff record for rushing against the 'Fins in that game, which would be Shula's last. 5. The Bills went into Pittsburgh minus Bruce Smith, who had contracted the flu. Weeks earlier players had been advised to take the flu shot, and Bruce refused saying he had a phobia for needles. Ralph Wilson reportedly had a private jet on stand-by ready to transport Bruce to Pittsburgh in the event he recovered in time. Of course, it didn't happen. The Bills got down multiple scores early. Kelly went down with a collar-bone injury and was shot up with painkillers to get back in the game. He returned in time to cap off a TD scoring drive, which put the Bills within one score early in the 4th quarter. (It was like 26 to 21 at the time.) From there it all went down hill. A pity because, had the Bills won that game they would have had a good shot at going back to the Super Bowl. The Colts had upset the Chiefs on the road and wound up traveling to Pittsburgh for the AFC Championship Game. Had the Bills won, the Colts would have had to go to Buffalo -- and the Bills had beaten the Colts badly in both games that year. (Bills always seemed to own Harbaugh.) 6. When the season was over, the team expressed little interest in retaining Andre. So he hit the open market. The Bills instead signed the younger Quinn Early who was coming off a pretty good year in New Orleans. They also invested their first round pick that year o Eric Moulds. Andre received very little interest on the open market. At the time he was over 30, coming off the injury that was either severe -- or one that Andre had milked (given his lengthy time out and perception). At some point Kelly went to John Butler and asked him why he had not made any effort to re-sign Andre, and Butler told him the Bills were interested but the phone works both ways. So Kelly and a couple of other teammates (may have been Thurman and Bruce, but I do not remember) called Andre and told him they wanted him back. Eventually Reed and the Bills did indeed work out a new contract. 7. The 1996 season was filled with promise with Reed re-signed and now Early on the team as well. However, Kelly seemingly got older overnight and the OL struggled to protect him. Reed was actually one of the bright spots that year. He started it off with a strong performance in an overtime victory over the Giants. He made it very clear that the injury issues in 1995 were behind him -- and I believe he was hurt by the suggestions that the hammy injury was not as severe as he made it out to be. 8. By the time the Flutie era began in 1998, Reed was starting to play second fiddle to Moulds. Clearly Moulds and Flutie had a connection -- and Reed was the odd man out. When he left after the 1999 season, he had less than kind things to say about Flutie and other members of the Bills organization. Andre has always had a bit of a surly attitude. I don't think he is a bad guy, just doesn't like talking to the press and always seems to have a chip on his shoulder. Contrast that with Cris Carter, who always loves to tell "his story". I think Andre Reed is a Hall of Famer. He was the to receiver for a high-powered offense, who played the thankless slot role and played in less than ideal weather conditions. Thus, his catch totals were great -- but his TD and yardage totals weren't. He was an important factor in multiple playoff games. Who can forget those sliding catches he made in the snow against Miami in the 1990 Divisional round? Or the all time performance in the Comeback Game with multiple TDs? He was not horrible in the Super Bowls, compared to some of his teammates. Parcell and Belichick game-planned for him specifically in Super Bowl XXV. They knew they couldn't stop him, but instead believed the best thing was to prevent the YAC and punish him when he caught the ball. The plan worked. By the 2nd quarter, Andre started hearing footsteps... He did have two very crucial drops on the series after the safety. The Bills were ahead then 12-3 and had all the momentum. One drop was a great play by the defender, hitting him hard right after the ball arrived. The other was a simple drop. He catches that, and the Bills likely wind up with at least a field goal if not a TD... Wish more HOF voters would watch the Comeback Game and not the Super Bowls... Oh, and how many Super Bowls did Cris Carter and Tim Brown help lead their team to? TO? Randy Moss? Reed may have been 0-4, but these other guys only ever went there 2 times total among them all. Both losses.
Wayne Fontes Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 I've always considered Bill Brooks' two uncontested 3rd down drops in XXVIII more crucial than Reeds drops in XXV.
dave mcbride Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 (edited) I remember it all like it was yesterday. A few points of reference... 1. 1995 was a contract year for Andre. 2. During the preseason, he made it plain that he was unhappy with the front office for not signing him long-term and entering the season with that final year remaining. 3. As someone mentioned, he hurt his hammy rather significantly early in the season and sat out much of the rest of the year. Some insiders questioned whether he was doing that to avoid making the injury worse and potentially hurting his chances of getting a big deal upon hitting free agency. 4. The defense was very good that year, and Kelly had one of his best seasons (some thought he deserved consideration as MVP, given his surrounding talent at WR with Reed out most of the year). The Bills managed to win the division and hosted the Dolphins in the Wildcard round. The Bills set a then playoff record for rushing against the 'Fins in that game, which would be Shula's last. 5. The Bills went into Pittsburgh minus Bruce Smith, who had contracted the flu. Weeks earlier players had been advised to take the flu shot, and Bruce refused saying he had a phobia for needles. Ralph Wilson reportedly had a private jet on stand-by ready to transport Bruce to Pittsburgh in the event he recovered in time. Of course, it didn't happen. The Bills got down multiple scores early. Kelly went down with a collar-bone injury and was shot up with painkillers to get back in the game. He returned in time to cap off a TD scoring drive, which put the Bills within one score early in the 4th quarter. (It was like 26 to 21 at the time.) From there it all went down hill. A pity because, had the Bills won that game they would have had a good shot at going back to the Super Bowl. The Colts had upset the Chiefs on the road and wound up traveling to Pittsburgh for the AFC Championship Game. Had the Bills won, the Colts would have had to go to Buffalo -- and the Bills had beaten the Colts badly in both games that year. (Bills always seemed to own Harbaugh.) 6. When the season was over, the team expressed little interest in retaining Andre. So he hit the open market. The Bills instead signed the younger Quinn Early who was coming off a pretty good year in New Orleans. They also invested their first round pick that year o Eric Moulds. Andre received very little interest on the open market. At the time he was over 30, coming off the injury that was either severe -- or one that Andre had milked (given his lengthy time out and perception). At some point Kelly went to John Butler and asked him why he had not made any effort to re-sign Andre, and Butler told him the Bills were interested but the phone works both ways. So Kelly and a couple of other teammates (may have been Thurman and Bruce, but I do not remember) called Andre and told him they wanted him back. Eventually Reed and the Bills did indeed work out a new contract. 7. The 1996 season was filled with promise with Reed re-signed and now Early on the team as well. However, Kelly seemingly got older overnight and the OL struggled to protect him. Reed was actually one of the bright spots that year. He started it off with a strong performance in an overtime victory over the Giants. He made it very clear that the injury issues in 1995 were behind him -- and I believe he was hurt by the suggestions that the hammy injury was not as severe as he made it out to be. 8. By the time the Flutie era began in 1998, Reed was starting to play second fiddle to Moulds. Clearly Moulds and Flutie had a connection -- and Reed was the odd man out. When he left after the 1999 season, he had less than kind things to say about Flutie and other members of the Bills organization. Andre has always had a bit of a surly attitude. I don't think he is a bad guy, just doesn't like talking to the press and always seems to have a chip on his shoulder. Contrast that with Cris Carter, who always loves to tell "his story". I think Andre Reed is a Hall of Famer. He was the to receiver for a high-powered offense, who played the thankless slot role and played in less than ideal weather conditions. Thus, his catch totals were great -- but his TD and yardage totals weren't. He was an important factor in multiple playoff games. Who can forget those sliding catches he made in the snow against Miami in the 1990 Divisional round? Or the all time performance in the Comeback Game with multiple TDs? He was not horrible in the Super Bowls, compared to some of his teammates. Parcell and Belichick game-planned for him specifically in Super Bowl XXV. They knew they couldn't stop him, but instead believed the best thing was to prevent the YAC and punish him when he caught the ball. The plan worked. By the 2nd quarter, Andre started hearing footsteps... He did have two very crucial drops on the series after the safety. The Bills were ahead then 12-3 and had all the momentum. One drop was a great play by the defender, hitting him hard right after the ball arrived. The other was a simple drop. He catches that, and the Bills likely wind up with at least a field goal if not a TD... Wish more HOF voters would watch the Comeback Game and not the Super Bowls... Oh, and how many Super Bowls did Cris Carter and Tim Brown help lead their team to? TO? Randy Moss? Reed may have been 0-4, but these other guys only ever went there 2 times total among them all. Both losses. Excellent summary. I forgot that it was a contract year. The injury was severe - a torn hamstring vs the Jets. He was drilled 2-3 yards out of bounds and his leg was bent upward in an ugy way while he was still standing. It hspappened after he picked up 14 yards on a reverse, and the Bills were rolling. They ended up blowing out the Jets. I've always considered Bill Brooks' two uncontested 3rd down drops in XXVIII more crucial than Reeds drops in XXV. I consider thomas's two fumbles more crucial. Edited November 23, 2013 by dave mcbride
bbb Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 2003contenders - that was a great summary! And, I thought I had a great memory - that is amazing!
TallskiWallski83 Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 Kelly couldnt have been the player he was without Thomas and Reed Thomas couldnt have been the player he was without Kelly and Reed Reed couldnt have been the player he was without Kelly and Thomas 2 out of the 3 are in the HOF...it blows my mind that Reed hasnt gotten in yet. Out of the 3 I think Thomas was the most revolutionizing player...he changed the way RB was played
Nanker Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 I'm sorry but Andre was better than Irving, to lazy to find the link but if I remember right even his stats said so. Man this is so long ago..... HOF every year Andre has been dissed, I hope he gets in there this year. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/ReedAn00.htm http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IrviMi00.htm
Never NEVER Give-up Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 Out of the 3 I think Thomas was the most revolutionizing player...he changed the way RB was played Agreed. However, Marshall Faulk seems to get the most credit for that. You hear it all the time because he's on one of the NFLNetwork shows and this gets played-up quite often - I'm always yelling back at the TV saying, "What about Thurman!?!?!?"
jumbalaya Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 This is my view on Andre Reed's HoF status: Individually, he's not a Hall of Famer. It's not that big of a travesty that he's not in. HOWEVER, as part of the Buffalo Bills team that went to the Superbowl an unprecedented FOUR times in a row, he is a Hall of Famer. He was one of the "big four" players, and should be in because of the part he played in that. Individually he was the second best receiver of his time. Individually he deserves the HOF..
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