MNF Thread - Cam Newton vs. Tom Brady

[DC Tom]

First off, I'm glad as heck that the Pats got boned, but right is right and wrong is wrong.

 

Secondly, you might want to watch ESPN Sportscenter sometime today, and look for the "Sports Science" segment they did on this play, BECAUSE IT COMPLETELY DISPELS YOUR OPINIONS ABOVE. The statement that "Kuechly wasn't doing anything to interfer (sic) with him besides MAYBE some hand jousting" is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read anywhere, at anytime. Kuechly's BACK was to the QB, and he had NO IDEA that the ball was coming in, while Gronk saw the ball, put on the brakes, and was trying to come back for the ball (the Sports Science segment shows you this). To try and say that Kuechly's 250-lb+ body, moving toward the end line, WITH BOTH ARMS WRAPPED AROUND Gronk, did not impede Gronk is laughable and ridiculous. Also, I'm sure you've probably seen the replay that ESPN has been running, where they put the "bullseye" graphic on the turf where Gronk is first contacted by Kuechly, then a second later, they put the "bullseye" graphic where the DB intercepts the ball, and the two bullseyes are about ONE YARD apart.

 

Finally, I will agree that PI is rarely called on a last play which is a "Hail Mary", but this wasn't a Hail Mary, and I've seen plenty of last play PI calls over the years.

 

Where "Gronk is first contacted by Kuechly" is not where the penalty started. Gronkowski ran through a space that Kuechly had already established himself in; that's not a penalty on anyone. The penalty began a yard or two later when Kuechly started to give him a great big affectionate hug.

 

But lets not lose sight of the important thing here: Pats got hosed.

[Prickly Pete]

 

But lets not lose sight of the important thing here: Pats got hosed.

 

They DIDN'T get hosed, they got outplayed, and beaten fair and square.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I've never really liked the idea of blindly throwing a ball in the direction of a receiver, and getting a PI call if it's in the same direction, and the defensive player isn't ready. But most of the time, it works... so along that history, that play should have been called a PI, even though I think it's BS. Maybe the NFL has directed the refs to watch out for that more?

 

Agreed. However I've never really liked the idea of a defensive player being able to mug a receiver with impunity, especially on a critical play.

 

Think of it this way ..... if Keuchly wasn't in the picture, does Gronk catch the ball? Of course, he does.

 

I'm in the group (pneumonic, Dave McBride, Farmer) that thinks the pass interference call should have stood.

 

I can't believe people are complaining that the Pat*s didn't get the call. Have you not watched this team over the past decade+? They would have to have every single call over the next 5 seasons go against them just to be even close to evening out the karma blessings they've received since the "tuck."

 

I think you're confusing the issues here as are others based on their hatred for The Cheatriots***.

 

I hate New England and always want them to lose. In spite of that, objectively critiquing the play is a different conversation. I'm glad the decision went against them. That doesn't mean I think it was a good (non) call.

[Prickly Pete]

Agreed. However I've never really liked the idea of a defensive player being able to mug a receiver with impunity, especially on a critical play.

 

 

 

I'm in the group (pneumonic, Dave McBride, Farmer) that thinks the pass interference call should have stood.

 

 

 

I think you're confusing the issues here as are others based on their hatred for The Cheatriots***.

 

I hate New England and always want them to lose. In spite of that, objectively critiquing the play is a different conversation. I'm glad the decision went against them. That doesn't mean I think it was a good (non) call.

 

I have voiced lots of support for Brady. I think he is a good guy, and the greatest QB ever. I just don't think that was worthy of handing a team the ball on the 1 yard line. The last play of the game, in that situation, it's on the offense to MAKE A PLAY.

 

(it might not be in the rule book, but everyone in the NFL knows it's true, and ACCEPTS it. Even Bill Belichick, and Tom "it wasn't a great throw" Brady)

 

People are claiming it wasn't a Hail Mary, but it was definitely a desperation throw from 25 yards away, into tight double coverage (sure appears that it was a play designed to be thrown to Gronkowski regardless of any coverage, just like a Hail Mary), Gronkowski was pushing, and surely he and Brady were well aware of the opportunity to get a PI called in that situation. Throwing it short, up for grabs, into a crowd (and cleanly intercepted, no less), and not even getting close enough to TOUCH the ball, is NOT making a play.

 

It didn't work for them this time, but it's a judgement call that is left up to the officials, and I think the team that won, outplayed the team that lost.

 

As far as it being the Patriots, I firmly believe that were it the Bills/Browns/perennial loser, it wouldn't be any big controversy, and that the general public tends to give the Patriots the benefit of the doubt. As though people just assume that they are the better team, and deserve "better" officiating... something is wrong if they don't get the comeback win on the final play. It didn't follow the script we are familiar with, so with a close call against the Pats, something must be amiss.

 

Rubbish. They didn't make enough of a play.

 

If the uniforms were changed to EJ Manuel and the Bills, and say, the Green Bay Packers defense, the reaction from the broadcast team would have been "The Packers may have gotten away with one there", a few replays, then on to the game summary. 12 hours later NO ONE would be talking about it except Bills fans, and a few Packers fans on message boards. The Bills suck, the Packers were favorites, and let's move the F on. But BECAUSE it's the Pats, it's 2 days of sports radio talking about how something needs to be done about the officiating, and "maybe they should adjust the replay rules?". It's generating 'hits', and EVERYONE has to have an opinion.

 

I also think front-runner bettors that lost money are pissed off.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro

[Clippers of Nfl]

I have voiced lots of support for Brady. I think he is a good guy, and the greatest QB ever. I just don't think that was worthy of handing a team the ball on the 1 yard line. The last play of the game, it's on the offense to MAKE A PLAY.

 

Yuck. I couldnt let this thread end on a lie!

He has had consistency on the oline where it matters for most of his career. Probowl offensive line protecting him. Hall of fame coaching and play design. Benefit of plenty bad pi calls. I could go on and on. Benefit of playing in a weak division for most of his career.

The simple fact is Brady chokes and burns under pressure. Everyone knows that's the formula. Proven again just this Monday. Throws become inaccurate and ints develop. Hmmm. Sound familiar. Plus he's a female dog, whines and cries a lot, and wears pink thongs. This is probably my strongest point.

When he missed the season, pats still went 11-5. lol

 

Peyton has done great with or without a decent oline. I remember watching many indy games where the broadcasters mention how the line needs to protect him better and how it's a bad oline in general. But he still makes it happen. Play clock management. Forces offsides. Man, the guy is a genius.

And you know it's coming, he misses the season and they go 2-14 or some stupid record like that. Without knowing the future of course, Im sure if Peyton plays that season, they at least make the playoffs. That's just what he does. He's the man!!

He will probably break every freaking record this year to add to the awesome year he had last year post injury. The broncos were a running team in 2011. Peyton comes in and the team becomes a passing madhouse 2012-2013. What else can I say?

 

To me it's no contest who is best ever.

 

"I'm a bills fan. You're Manning the III right? You choke under pressure mutherf****"

[Prickly Pete]

Yuck. I couldnt let this thread end on a lie!

He has had consistency on the oline where it matters for most of his career. Probowl offensive line protecting him. Hall of fame coaching and play design. Benefit of plenty bad pi calls. I could go on and on. Benefit of playing in a weak division for most of his career.

The simple fact is Brady chokes and burns under pressure. Everyone knows that's the formula. Proven again just this Monday. Throws become inaccurate and ints develop. Hmmm. Sound familiar. Plus he's a female dog, whines and cries a lot, and wears pink thongs. This is probably my strongest point.

When he missed the season, pats still went 11-5. lol

 

Peyton has done great with or without a decent oline. I remember watching many indy games where the broadcasters mention how the line needs to protect him better and how it's a bad oline in general. But he still makes it happen. Play clock management. Forces offsides. Man, the guy is a genius.

And you know it's coming, he misses the season and they go 2-14 or some stupid record like that. Without knowing the future of course, Im sure if Peyton plays that season, they at least make the playoffs. That's just what he does. He's the man!!

He will probably break every freaking record this year to add to the awesome year he had last year post injury. The broncos were a running team in 2011. Peyton comes in and the team becomes a passing madhouse 2012-2013. What else can I say?

 

To me it's no contest who is best ever.

 

"I'm a bills fan. You're Manning the III right? You choke under pressure mutherf****"

 

I was merely noting that I'm not completely biased against Brady and the Pats. I don't think this is the right thread for this ^^^ discussion. It's really about that specific play.

[SactoBillFan]

Yuck. I couldnt let this thread end on a lie!

 

Oh common man!

[YoloinOhio]

Technically I think the MNF thread has to end before the TNF game...

[BuffOrange]

I have voiced lots of support for Brady. I think he is a good guy, and the greatest QB ever. I just don't think that was worthy of handing a team the ball on the 1 yard line. The last play of the game, in that situation, it's on the offense to MAKE A PLAY.

 

(it might not be in the rule book, but everyone in the NFL knows it's true, and ACCEPTS it. Even Bill Belichick, and Tom "it wasn't a great throw" Brady)

 

People are claiming it wasn't a Hail Mary, but it was definitely a desperation throw from 25 yards away, into tight double coverage (sure appears that it was a play designed to be thrown to Gronkowski regardless of any coverage, just like a Hail Mary), Gronkowski was pushing, and I believe that he and Brady were well aware of the opportunity to get a PI called in that situation. Throwing it short, up for grabs, into a crowd (and cleanly intercepted, no less), and not even getting close enough to TOUCH the ball, is NOT making a play.

 

It didn't work for them this time, but it's a judgement call that is left up to the officials, and I think the team that won, outplayed the team that lost.

 

As far as it being the Patriots, I firmly believe that were it the Bills/Browns/perennial loser, it wouldn't be any big controversy, and that the general public tends to give the Patriots the benefit of the doubt. As though people just assume that they are the better team, and deserve "better" officiating... something is wrong if they don't get the comeback win on the final play. It didn't follow the script we are familiar with, so with a close call against the Pats, something must be amiss.

 

Rubbish. They didn't make enough of a play.

 

If the uniforms were changed to EJ Manuel and the Bills, and say, the Green Bay Packers defense, the reaction from the broadcast team would have been "The Packers may have gotten away with one there", a few replays, then on to the game summary. 12 hours later NO ONE would be talking about it except Bills fans, and a few Packers fans on message boards. The Bills suck, the Packers were favorites, and let's move the F on. But BECAUSE it's the Pats, it's 2 days of sports radio talking about how something needs to be done about the officiating, and "maybe they should adjust the replay rules?". It's generating 'hits', and EVERYONE has to have an opinion.

 

I also think front-runner bettors that lost money are pissed off.

 

My favorite post of the thread, with extra agreement bolded.

 

There were definitely a lot of squares who put down some cash on NE on the basis of the "omg Brady is an underdog vs this Johnny come lately team?" thought process. Well Carolina has been a better team all year by most metrics so they really shouldn't have been laying any less than 3 at home.

 

I'm not going to get in to the minutia of the play because frankly - whether Gronk could've gotten to the ball or not - nobody ever nitpicks whether or not a ball is catchable to the extent they're doing with this play when there is that much contact...it just draws a flag almost every time in the first 59 minutes.

 

Oh well. Somebody mentioned the blatant hold that went uncalled in the Saints game. There was also the leg-whip that went uncalled in this game on NE's first TD drive, a plethora of favorable calls vs Miami that helped turn that game around for the Pats including a very bizzare "illegal batting" call, and 0 penalties @Cincinnati (a game which they didn't win anyway). I think when you weigh all of that vs. the quasi-hail marry in Carolina & the Jets FG, NE comes out about 'even' on the scale of officiating luck this year. Maybe that's not what they're used to, but there's not much injustice there even though the powers that be in Bristol, CT only ever mention the two calls that went against them.

[Prickly Pete]

My favorite post of the thread, with extra agreement bolded.

 

There were definitely a lot of squares who put down some cash on NE on the basis of the "omg Brady is an underdog vs this Johnny come lately team?" thought process. Well Carolina has been a better team all year by most metrics so they really shouldn't have been laying any less than 3 at home.

 

I'm not going to get in to the minutia of the play because frankly - whether Gronk could've gotten to the ball or not - nobody ever nitpicks whether or not a ball is catchable to the extent they're doing with this play when there is that much contact...it just draws a flag almost every time in the first 59 minutes.

 

Oh well. Somebody mentioned the blatant hold that went uncalled in the Saints game. There was also the leg-whip that went uncalled in this game on NE's first TD drive, a plethora of favorable calls vs Miami that helped turn that game around for the Pats including a very bizzare "illegal batting" call, and 0 penalties @Cincinnati (a game which they didn't win anyway). I think when you weigh all of that vs. the quasi-hail marry in Carolina & the Jets FG, NE comes out about 'even' on the scale of officiating luck this year. Maybe that's not what they're used to, but there's not much injustice there even though the powers that be in Bristol, CT only ever mention the two calls that went against them.

 

Thank you. It took me a while to organize my thoughts about this play, but I think I laid it out pretty well.

[RyanC883]

The best part of this is Brady being exposed for the big cry baby he is yet again. About time a call goes against them. The Pats O-line routinely holds and is rarely called for holding. I think they had a game this year (might have been week 1 vs. us) where they had NO penalties.

[l< j]

The best part of this is Brady being exposed for the big cry baby he is yet again. About time a call goes against them. The Pats O-line routinely holds and is rarely called for holding. I think they had a game this year (might have been week 1 vs. us) where they had NO penalties.

 

Shouldn't he have been fined for that? Isn't there precedent?

[YoloinOhio]

Shouldn't he have been fined for that? Isn't there precedent?

Yes, I think bellicheat was fined once for jawing at the ref after a game. besides, if that was Cam doing that had roles been reversed? The outrage.. but Tom was just being "competitive."

[Clippers of Nfl]

Oh common man!

Oh sorry. You must be one of those bills' fans who loves brady.

Trust me. There's a lot of you people here.

[SactoBillFan]

Oh sorry. You must be one of those bills' fans who loves brady.

Trust me. There's a lot of you people here.

Your assumptions are not true. Don't understand when someone is kidding. Wonder what ever happened to Ice. Common man..

[NoSaint]

Yes, I think bellicheat was fined once for jawing at the ref after a game. besides, if that was Cam doing that had roles been reversed? The outrage.. but Tom was just being "competitive."

 

Bb touched the ref, it wasn't just talking that got him fined if I recall

[YoloinOhio]

Bb touched the ref, it wasn't just talking that got him fined if I recall

Yep I think that he did.

[boyst]

Now, this is hilarious:

http://www.carolinah...y-last-16-games

Edited November 23, 2013 by jboyst62

[KD in CA]

Now, this is hilarious:

http://www.carolinah...y-last-16-games

 

 

Would have been funnier if they added a stat for # of times running off the field crying to the refs about the last play:

 

Newton: 0

Brady: 2

[NoSaint]

Seemed a relevant share - in the Carolina Tampa game today a PI flag was picked up because the ball was intercepted ahead of the receiver. I didn't see the replay to see if it was apples to apples but saw the play live and heard the discussion after.